Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

[Doggy Dan]

I still think we missed a massive trick not making the ground to MCG dimensions. Would have been an extra 2 games a year worth of experience on the bigger ground and all the training and drills we'd like coming into finals.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Why the hell would you rather Darwin over Melbourne? C'mon man, that's a shocking call and goes against all our strategies that we're implementing regarding western vic.

Because I don't see any advantage to playing games in Ballarat. We would get as much out of playing at Darwin as we would out of going to Ballarat in my opinion. The NT Government would recompense us far more than the financial gain we will make out of Ballarat.
Neither option is great, I prefer all our home games in Melbourne but Ballarat does not give me any excitement at all.
I will say this, i went to a Dogs V GWS game in Canberra. The atmosphere at that game was terrible, we won the game by a few points. Talia won a medal for BOG, but the whole game I was there and just wanting it to end. It was freezing cold, the atmosphere was terrible, the ground is set up in a way that the wind caused havoc with the skills so the game was horrible to watch.
You can bet this is exactly how the Ballarat scenario will be. At least in Darwin you have nice weather, a new market to get support in and a substantial financial kickback from the NT Government. We have never been ahead of the game with our indigenous talent spotting and development, perhaps a NT initiative might improve that by letting us set up an academy such as Nth have done in Tassie.
I consider the Ballarat initiative to be short-sighted and really not a way to develop our brand nationally. There is no doubt we will pick up a few supporters but not enough to justify our commitment to that area.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Uh, I feel like there's plenty of difference but here I am listing them.

• Ballarat is still within driving distance of Melbourne so we're not expecting our fans to get on a plane like Cairns (or Tasmania or New Zealand or Darwin)
• Ballarat is one of the fastest growing economic regions in Victoria, partly due to its proximity to Melbourne
• It's not just Ballarat, it's its surrounding region. Ballarat is pretty much equally as close to places like Geelong, Melton, the Macedon Ranges etc. as it is to Melbourne - and if you "catch" the whole region of Western Victoria that is closer to Ballarat than it is to Melbourne, that's a whole range of footy fans who might go to a game to Ballarat but not in Melbourne for various reasons.
• Sponsorship/Commercial opportunities, the city of Ballarat already sponsor us and we've seen places like Sovereign Hill already do so for us.
• The opportunity to "convert" fans in the Ballarat region to become Bulldogs fans. This could be a generation away - as we see kids with Bulldogs players visiting their school etc. and wearing Dogs colours to Auskick and the like.

Cairns is paid for by their city to give the population a game and to get some Melbourne-based supporters an excuse to choose Cairns as their location for their July school holidays lets-go-to-somewhere-warm holiday. But it doesn't have the same population or potential for growth as the Ballarat region.

Provided the stage 2 upgrade can be completed very soon and we can have a boutique stadium of 20-30,000 people, and we play interstate teams like the two Adelaide teams there, I can see it being very successful for the Dogs.

Good arguments, but like areas such as Werribee, Wyndham etc which are developing also we don't have a majority of supporters out there and this is our area also. We have a higher % than say an area such as Hallam but still far from the overwhelming dominant supported team. It is ignorant if we think just because we are going to Ballarat that we will pick up a lot of extra support. You go out to these new areas and you are still going to have a high % of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon supporters that generationally support those clubs. Ballarat is a traditional St Kilda area so there is also that club that we have to overcome.
The area I live in used to be a Sth Melbourne recruiting zone, there are a few Sydney supporters but not a great deal from my generation. Thinking that just because we have a presence in Ballarat will sway the majority of kids is guesswork at best.

 

[MYOB]

Because I don't see any advantage to playing games in Ballarat. We would get as much out of playing at Darwin as we would out of going to Ballarat in my opinion. The NT Government would recompense us far more than the financial gain we will make out of Ballarat.
Neither option is great, I prefer all our home games in Melbourne but Ballarat does not give me any excitement at all.

Do you know how much we are being paid to play in Ballarat?

 

[samass03]

Good arguments, but like areas such as Werribee, Wyndham etc which are developing also we don't have a majority of supporters out there and this is our area also. We have a higher % than say an area such as Hallam but still far from the overwhelming dominant supported team. It is ignorant if we think just because we are going to Ballarat that we will pick up a lot of extra support. You go out to these new areas and you are still going to have a high % of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon supporters that generationally support those clubs. Ballarat is a traditional St Kilda area so there is also that club that we have to overcome.
The area I live in used to be a Sth Melbourne recruiting zone, there are a few Sydney supporters but not a great deal from my generation. Thinking that just because we have a presence in Ballarat will sway the majority of kids is guesswork at best.

Guessing you didn't read the op or the first handful of posts I and multiple others have stated how we HAVE seen s dramatic increase in supporters wearing Bulldogs colours.

Also Ballarat is a footy dominated town unlike Canberra it has a deep tradition in footy the atmosphere at the Bulldogs pre season games here have been great

 

[dogwatch]

Guessing you didn't read the op or the first handful of posts I and multiple others have stated how we HAVE seen s dramatic increase in supporters wearing Bulldogs colours.

Also Ballarat is a footy dominated town unlike Canberra it has a deep tradition in footy the atmosphere at the Bulldogs pre season games here have been great

And we are not just sitting on our hands. We are actually investing effort there already.

It should work. Even if it doesn't we have at least had a crack. It's better than having next to no vision at all and just taking a once-a-year pay cheque from NT or Cairns.

 

[dogwatch]

I still think we missed a massive trick not making the ground to MCG dimensions. Would have been an extra 2 games a year worth of experience on the bigger ground and all the training and drills we'd like coming into finals.

The idea is great but I think the ground is already constrained by outside factors such as roads, so there's very little space for building a grandstand on one wing, let alone widening the playing surface.

 

[Mutt]

The idea is great but I think the ground is already constrained by outside factors such as roads, so there's very little space for building a grandstand on one wing, let alone widening the playing surface.

Yep - I'm pretty sure that this is why the configuration of the Ballarat playing surface mirrors Docklands and not the G.

 

[dogzrule]

Seat holders are guarenteed

Then I have a seat, just need to make sure parking or pub transport (Bulldog express from West Footscray) is available

 

[DognBones]

Seat holders are guarenteed

Could we just reflect on this for a minute? I am assuming you mean a seat in the grandstand with a capacity of '5000'. Therefore, it would be interesting to know how many seat holders we have at Etihad and how many of these would be likely to travel to Ballarat to see a game. Would it also mean that, due to the the limited capacity, opposition supporters and WB supporters who do not have seats at Etihad, would not be able to purchase a seat in the grandstand?
So many questions related to the logistics of the new stadium!

 

[Dogs till i die]

I'm going to play devils advocate... We clearly have a pretty big advantage playing at Etihad. If we take games away from there to play somewhere else is that the best thing for the team?

I get its a good move for the club but just wanted to see what others views are

Love the Ballarat concept and like the place........just think (no disrespect to Ballarat), that other teams, particularly interstaters, will not want to go there (travel, lacking comfort compared to Etihad). After we get used to it ourselves as an alternative home, we can exploit the home advantage, similar to the Hawks in Launceston.

BTW, dropped into Eureka on my way to Adelaide Oval last week, and noticed a big Bulldog sign confirming home games for 2017. Also noticed the playing surface has been relaid and configured more south-west to north-east than it was before. The goals are now much closer to the scoreboard than previously. No apparent changes to facilities though, hope there is soon. Would think they would play an early season and a late season home game and avoid June/July, was bloody freezing there.

 

[Guido]

It's a footy mad market - with a population not that far off of Darwin's - 1 hour's drive away.

No option is "perfect" - no matter what option to grow our market the club takes, some noses will be put out of joint (and some arses will freeze standing on a hill).

It offers:
- Genuine home ground advantage against interstate teams (adding a return 2 hour bus trip is a real pain in the arse when coming from Queensland or Perth...)
- No fatigue ramifications (Cairns/Darwin are longer return trips than Perth).

Investing a few thousand man hours (on top of a couple of afl fixtures a year) in Ballarat across the next few years should result in another 2000-3000 Western Victoria based members - that's a much better return than what Cairns or Darwin offer(ed).

If we wanted returns in the millions and 4000-5000 new members, my preference since the early 2000s would have been playing 3 games in Hobart (with replacement Melbourne games) - but as a less lucrative deal (but much more palatable deal for our supporters), this is as outstanding a second option as any.

It gives the club an opportunity to take control of its future - building and profiting from it's own initiative.

And under modern day stadium economics,
unfortunately, having 20,000 people wanting to get into a 11,000 seat stadium is a positive. I wouldn't play the Adelaide teams there and give their supporters a look in - play Gold Coast and GWS - build a fortress with 10,094 doggies members and half a dozen GWS paid employees acting as a cheer squad.

For those worried about being locked out, look at it from the other side of the coin - many a time in our history the club has been in a position of not being guaranteed to fill this kind of venue. Literally twenty years ago we had a number of home games at our own Whitten Oval with less than 10,000 people there.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Do you know how much we are being paid to play in Ballarat?

3-5 million over 5 years. Lets take the conservative approach, 3 million.
For a 5 year investment I figure economically that is only as good as a very good sponsor at Collingwood.
I have seen all the arguments and still have not seen one compelling one as to why we should invest in Ballarat.
It's my understanding that the Dogs are chipping in for the stadium upgrade also. I'm not sure if that is a great economic investment. Thinking the Legends Stand at Optus Oval as a prime example of pi55ing $$$ against the wall.

 

[samass03]

Love the Ballarat concept and like the place........just think (no disrespect to Ballarat), that other teams, particularly interstaters, will not want to go there (travel, lacking comfort compared to Etihad). After we get used to it ourselves as an alternative home, we can exploit the home advantage, similar to the Hawks in Launceston.

BTW, dropped into Eureka on my way to Adelaide Oval last week, and noticed a big Bulldog sign confirming home games for 2017. Also noticed the playing surface has been relaid and configured more south-west to north-east than it was before. The goals are now much closer to the scoreboard than previously. No apparent changes to facilities though, hope there is soon. Would think they would play an early season and a late season home game and avoid June/July, was bloody freezing there.

No different to Geelong?

No airport in Geelong, but there atmosphere is great at games!

 

[LondonBulldog]

I'm guessing the 11,000 capacity has more to do with facilities than actual crowd they could fit in. I went to the ground recently (on a weekend away) and clearly after the seating is installed their is plenty of room the wing/behind the goals scoreboard end for a large "standing room" outer. Turning the ground has opened up more room. For example their would be more room than the current Whitten oval which got over 11k for a pre-season game. If they build the outer correctly, I'm sure they could get it to 15k? Half the ground standing should equal double the amount you fit in seats. In the old days tiny grounds in the VFL fitted in 30k.

 

[Pugz89]

Yep - I'm pretty sure that this is why the configuration of the Ballarat playing surface mirrors Docklands and not the G.

We requested it be the Docklands dimensions. I wonder if we knew if we requested MCG dimensions, we'd be knocked back, so we ensured we at least kept with what we know in that case.

 

[bontshow]

Cairns/Darwin are longer return trips than Perth

That's not true

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I found myself in Ballarat on a typically freezing Sunday (those of you that mourn Saturdays at Whitten Oval will feel right at home) last weekend and just happened to have my camera with me, so thought it was opportune that I take a look at the redevelopment. For mine it has a very long way to go before it has the feel of an AFL standard arena. Obviously a fair way to go.

What to expect.


Realignment of the ground with the goal posts now on the opposite side of the scoreboard.


I can't recall for certain if these are 'new' coaches boxes since my last visit. I suspect that they are.


New earthwork viewing area and arena lighting.

 

[maddog37]

Not new boxes I reckon.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Just as an fyi (I think ivan rassmussen posted this somewhere - isn't he Ballarat-based?) but also had it confirmed by someone who I know was there, at a Ballarat supporters group meet and greet last year, Peter Gordon stated categorically that the intention is to play the Adelaide sides in Ballarat. Several posters have suggested other opposition, but the push is strong from within the club to have the SA teams as regular opponents in Ballarat. Unless something drastic happens, we won't be playing Freo/GC/GW or any Vic-based sides there.

On a side note, I note the club dismissed the us vs Port in China next year - I wonder if Port agreeing to long-term involvement in Ballarat as the away team may involve a suggestion we be the home team in the Sino-AFL venture, at least for the first game? And if we were to accept home-team status for that game, I would expect the AFL to pony-up sufficient funding for us to market our club extensively. Even in Shanghai, the population is 20+ million (and lots of foreign expats as well from all over the globe) - there's a lot of potential supporters there...

 

[boydsno1]

Still waiting to hear how my gold reserved seat will work at Ballarat. Will be pissed if i miss out on attending the game due to small capacity.
Hope the AFL hurry up and buy etihad or build another venue closer for us to us. Melbourne show grounds would be perfect.

 

[maddog37]

Just as an fyi (I think ivan rassmussen posted this somewhere - isn't he Ballarat-based?) but also had it confirmed by someone who I know was there, at a Ballarat supporters group meet and greet last year, Peter Gordon stated categorically that the intention is to play the Adelaide sides in Ballarat. Several posters have suggested other opposition, but the push is strong from within the club to have the SA teams as regular opponents in Ballarat. Unless something drastic happens, we won't be playing Freo/GC/GW or any Vic-based sides there.

On a side note, I note the club dismissed the us vs Port in China next year - I wonder if Port agreeing to long-term involvement in Ballarat as the away team may involve a suggestion we be the home team in the Sino-AFL venture, at least for the first game? And if we were to accept home-team status for that game, I would expect the AFL to pony-up sufficient funding for us to market our club extensively. Even in Shanghai, the population is 20+ million (and lots of foreign expats as well from all over the globe) - there's a lot of potential supporters there...

Ballarat city has always tried to be sympathetic to traveling Adelaide fans for the tourism dollar. The idea is that they will drive, stay and spend. I imagine part of the deal with the city and govt would be to encourage more of this.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Still waiting to hear how my gold reserved seat will work at Ballarat. Will be pissed if i miss out on attending the game due to small capacity.
Hope the AFL hurry up and buy etihad or build another venue closer for us to us. Melbourne show grounds would be perfect.

You'll be very unlikely to miss out on the game due to capacity.

Seats on the other hand... I'm thinking of bringing something like this (name for illustrative purposes only):

 

[geoffjennings79]

Ballarat city has always tried to be sympathetic to traveling Adelaide fans for the tourism dollar. The idea is that they will drive, stay and spend. I imagine part of the deal with the city and govt would be to encourage more of this.

Should be extra work generated for Ballarat panel beaters as well, when those cars with SA-plates get keyed... Or is that something that only happens in SA to Vic-plated cars (e.g. Kym Koster)...??!!

 

[Hoges64]

Should be extra work generated for Ballarat panel beaters as well, when those cars with SA-plates get keyed... Or is that something that only happens in SA to Vic-plated cars (e.g. Kym Koster)...??!!

Happened to my 3 week old Navara a couple of months back.

SA campaigners.