What do you want out of season 24?

[luthor]

Is that you Dom? Or is it Mike?

I can guarantee that's not Dom

 

[M Malice]

The speed of the game has gone past us, and we don't have the personal on the list to play the new game style.

Or the long running endurance either sadly, we have fallen off badly this year.

As I have said ad nauseam 2023 might have been this groups best chance to snatch a flag, so close but yet so far.

The close GF loss may have broken us mentally, tonight v the Giants has got a vibe of breaking us for the 2024 season IMO.

 

[briztoon]

Or the long running endurance either sadly, we have fallen off badly this year.

As I have said ad nauseam 2023 might have been this groups best chance to snatch a flag, so close but yet so far.

The close GF loss may have broken us mentally, tonight v the Giants has got a vibe of breaking us for the 2024 season IMO.

There's a fragility amongst this group. Lack of resilience. And that's from our leadership group down.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

A coaching plan B. And C. Something!
Not just watch as we get 5+ goals kicked in a row with no tactical moves.

 

[briztoon]

Poor recruiting.

Poor genetics.

We're matching talented father son kids way ahead of where our natural picks would be, so of course we take them in the draft. But they don't have the athleticism/physiology that most dominating midfields have these days.


When we get the chance to use a pick in the draft, we're picking outside of the optimal spots in the draft.

 

[Elixuh]

Finals.
Will back.
Exposure of 4-6 players to decent runs of AFL footy (eg Kai).

 

[Jubair]

As much as ideally I'd like to see us make finals, it actually might be a good thing if we miss it altogether and regroup with a better game plan and strategy.
We are the only team to play finals every year for the past five seasons. Sometimes a dip isn't a bad thing.

 

[Gadzorks]

As much as ideally I'd like to see us make finals, it actually might be a good thing if we miss it altogether and regroup with a better game plan and strategy.
We are the only team to play finals every year for the past five seasons. Sometimes a dip isn't a bad thing.

I think this is a big part of our current form problem.

Five years of short off seasons, five years of climbing and striving.

Mentally and physically fatigued.

Having said that, if the players believe that they may also start next year thinking it's all going to fall at their feet. Need some strong and honest assessments of where we are every week too frame whatever happens in the rest of this year as development - the dreaded learnings.

 

[Gadzorks]

Or the exodus of players begin when they start thinking they’ll get a pay increase plus a better opportunity at a flag outside of Brisbane which I suspect some would be starting to think. Not a good place to be.

I don't think an exodus is likely. They know their best is GF worthy, and having five or once they will be confident they can back to it.

I'll be scared of it happening end of next year though if season 25 is circa early 24 and not late 23.

 

[M Malice]

As much as ideally I'd like to see us make finals, it actually might be a good thing if we miss it altogether and regroup with a better game plan and strategy.
We are the only team to play finals every year for the past five seasons. Sometimes a dip isn't a bad thing.

A great positive that would come out of not making finals is we would get a full pre season in, IIRC we trained for 2 weeks pre Christmas for this season, starting 5 weeks earlier would make a hell of a difference.

Plus while we are at it make the whole of pre Christmas about endurance training, get out the runners boys. Also while minimal improvement is possible with speed we need to work on that as well.

IMO we will definitely be still in the window for a top 4 spot in 2025, possible side, predicting Zorks retires.

Brandon Starcevich, Jack Payne, Conor McKenna.
Darcy Wilmot, Harris Andrews(C), Tom Doedee.

Henry Smith, Lachie Neale, Josh Dunkley.
Will Ashcroft, Hugh McCluggage, Jarrod Berry.

Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Linc McCarthy.
Cam Rayner, Eric Hipwood, Kai Lohmann.

Keidean Coleman, Levi Ashcroft, Jaspa Fletcher, Zac Bailey.


Sub options- Noah Answerth, Bruce Reville, Shadeau Brain, James Tunstill, Harry Sharp, Reece Torrent, Logan Morris.

I feel bad leaving out Froggy as he has been great but IMO Doedee is an upgrade, maybe Froggy for Starcevich or a bench spot for Fletcher??
____________________________
Unfortunately this does hardly anything for our lack of leg speed, please take a speedy player in the mid season draft recruiters... I just watched this guys highlights package again WOW! .... come on down Frank Szekely,

 

[Bucking Beads]

I wanted a flag but that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen. Now I just want as many early draft picks as we can get for the future.

 

[M Malice]

I wanted a flag but that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen. Now I just want as many early draft picks as we can get for the future.

All we are getting this season bar maybe a couple of very late selections is Levi Ashcroft and Sam Marshall, unless we can snag a top 2-3 pick somehow and get a selection in before Levi is bid on, we are not getting a highly rated draft kid in the 2024 draft besides Levi.

 

[scoman]

Poor genetics.

We're matching talented father son kids way ahead of where our natural picks would be, so of course we take them in the draft. But they don't have the athleticism/physiology that most dominating midfields have these days.


When we get the chance to use a pick in the draft, we're picking outside of the optimal spots in the draft.

I don't think we should overlook Washcroft, but are Marshall and Gillet the players we really need? Do we overlook those guys and use later picks on more physical guys?

 

[Bucking Beads]

All we are getting this season bar maybe a couple of very late selections is Levi Ashcroft and Sam Marshall, unless we can snag a top 2-3 pick somehow and get a selection in before Levi is bid on, we are not getting a highly rated draft kid in the 2024 draft besides Levi.

Probably right but I think that will come down to what happens with Hugh and Jarred tbh

 

[M Malice]

I don't think we should overlook Washcroft, but are Marshall and Gillet the players we really need? Do we overlook those guys and use later picks on more physical guys?

Definitely worth consideration IMO, I haven't watched much at all of our academy/FS guys this draft but the one I did like the look of is Ryan Gilder.

 

[Elixuh]

I wanted a flag but that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen. Now I just want as many early draft picks as we can get for the future.

The easiest way to look at this year is we are getting pick 1-3 for free + potential first round academy mid regardless of where we finish on the ladder.

 

[werdna78]

The beset thing to happen this year, would be to finish anywhere 7th to 12th.

The players will get a full preseason and in 2025 our double up games should be against other mid range teams.

This happened to West Coast a few years ago (2017) they finished 8th. The year after they finished 2nd and won the cup.

 

[Surly Boy]

Believe our season is cooked. Wants now include:

- No more long term injuries.

- Recruit players with speed/ability to impact.

- Review coaching ranks and game style.

- Reset for 2025.

 

[davemc_lions]

Can we get some mid with speed to slot in from the Mid Season draft.
Need some list pruning end of the year. Teams going for speed and overlap.

 

[irel]

You have got to admire a stubborn old coot like Fagan but there's one area that I have been critical of him.

His persistence (stubbornness) with having half the team in the leadership group.

What has been created and yesterday's game is exhibit A, the on field leadership is abysmal. We have no ON-FIELD leadership, but we have twelve in name only. Everyone is absolving their leadership responsibilities to the next fellow. No one has a clue about taking responsibility.

Rayner(for fakes sake has been elevated as a leader)

So, I want to get rid of this bullshit system of leadership groups and just go back to a more traditional, one leader and one or two deputies. It has worked for centuries. If it aint broke... well.

 

[martinson]

You have got to admire a stubborn old coot like Fagan but there's one area that I have been critical of him.

His persistence (stubbornness) with having half the team in the leadership group.

What has been created and yesterday's game is exhibit A, the on field leadership is abysmal. We have no ON-FIELD leadership, but we have twelve in name only. Everyone is absolving their leadership responsibilities to the next fellow. No one has a clue about taking responsibility.

Rayner(for fakes sake has been elevated as a leader)

So, I want to get rid of this bullshit system of leadership groups and just go back to a more traditional, one leader and one or two deputies. It has worked for centuries. If it aint broke... well.

I thought it must have been a joke when they came up with the leadership congregation.

So the ones in it don't step up because it's someone else's problem and those not it don't think they're good enough to do so.

 

[MSB ROYS]

I thought it must have been a joke when they came up with the leadership congregation.

So the ones in it don't step up because it's someone else's problem and those not it don't think they're good enough to do so.

Agree, companies don't have 2 CEOs and 4 COOs!

 

[martinson]

Malice; on Dodee I think your expectations are way too high. Not many have come back from three ACL’s and really done much thereafter.

We’ve obviously had our fair share of multiple ACL players from Garner and Bartlett who never played a game to Sam Skinner who played less than a handful. As I’ve said before on here, I genuinely think we’ll lucky to get 20-30 games out of Tom for his entire career and even then I think that is even unlikely.

If we then go with the fact that say guys off one like Rich, Hippy and Cam, who only did one, all were extremely and understandably quiet that following year.

There’s also countless examples of other players that have done two plus ACLs and again none have sadly amounted to much. I personally think Doedee is a bust now.

On top of that with Kiddy and Will also coming back from them, having three players coming back from ACLs at the same time who all will be super cautious isn’t going to be great and any expectation they get back to 23 levels immediately is a fallacy.

Been saying the same thing McIvor.

Anyone hanging their hat on our ACL guys being what they were at least for a while is deluded.

As for Doedee I really feel for him ,it must be devastating but I'd be surprised if we ever got anything significant out of him.

I saw people saying our outs were just as significant as the Giants . So they had out the best player in the game ,the best defender and one of the best mids and we had a second year player with an acl , Kiddy who to be fair is a significant out but not playing anytime soon and someone else who's never played for us on his third acl. Whatever.

 

[briztoon]

Can we get some mid with speed to slot in from the Mid Season draft.
Need some list pruning end of the year. Teams going for speed and overlap.

Very, very unlikely.

 

[KissKiss]

Malice; on Dodee I think your expectations are way too high. Not many have come back from three ACL’s and really done much thereafter.

We’ve obviously had our fair share of multiple ACL players from Garner and Bartlett who never played a game to Sam Skinner who played less than a handful. As I’ve said before on here, I genuinely think we’ll lucky to get 20-30 games out of Tom for his entire career and even then I think that is even unlikely.

If we then go with the fact that say guys off one like Rich, Hippy and Cam, who only did one, all were extremely and understandably quiet that following year.

There’s also countless examples of other players that have done two plus ACLs and again none have sadly amounted to much. I personally think Doedee is a bust now.

On top of that with Kiddy and Will also coming back from them, having three players coming back from ACLs at the same time who all will be super cautious isn’t going to be great and any expectation they get back to 23 levels immediately is a fallacy.

Will should hopefully be ok by 25. He'll have had a few games this year and then a full pre-season to make sure he is feeling fine. Kiddy I expect will take till mid-year at best to start playing at that top level again. It will be interesting as I've always been concerned about his fitness and ability to run out games. Will he be able to come back fitter than he was

Doedee I have no expectations on especially after so many ACLs. I suspect he will be a big trade blunder for us. Anything beyond that is a bonus to me at this stage.

As for the rest of this year, I think I am around to this year needing to be a mini-reset. It might not be a full tank, but we need to have a full re-look at the game plan and change things up to see if some of the fringe players can actually step up in key roles

Its also more appropriate in the Fagan thread but I think a full review of the coaching setup needs to happen. Need to look hard over the year at what we have and if we can bring in some fresh thinking. Really there should be some aspiring coaches who look at where Fagan and the team are at, and see an opportunity at a future senior gig.