What has Williams done to deserve his new contract?

[Rafa Benitez]

I am completely disillusioned by the decision and want to know why the decision was made.

The team is playing a rubbish brand of football, they are playing without heart and players are getting games when they dont deserve them. I was of the belief that a change of direction was needed from the board, but they have failed to deliver and it is now up to the supporters to generate our own enthusiasm for the rest of the season because the board, coach and players are not willing to do so.

I believe we have a better list than Essendon, but I watch with envy how they drop senior players who dont perform, play direct attacking football and how they just have a go each week.

Choco has not done anything to earn a new deal in my opinion.

 

[PAFC04]

Could the board be waiting on a decision from elsewhere, not from choco this morning before breaking the news??

I guess, if Choco is reappointed, then someone else has said, thanks, but no thanks.

They could be holding on to him until they hear from someone else.

 

[PhoenixPower]

he has earned the right to the benefit of any doubt with his historically proven success

if we are the same after the next contract ends, sure he will be gone, but he has done enough over time to earn the respect and trust of the board and i support it

 

[Portia]

Sucked up to a lot of board members, and won just enough games to make it hard to sack him.

 

[Rafa Benitez]

he has earned the right to the benefit of any doubt with his historically proven success

if we are the same after the next contract ends, sure he will be gone, but he has done enough over time to earn the respect and trust of the board and i support it

I wish i felt the same way, but i have seen far too many non-competitive efforts over the past 4 seasons and the one thing i coach can influence is the effort of his players.

 

[PhoenixPower]

I wish i felt the same way, but i have seen far too many non-competitive efforts over the past 4 seasons and the one thing i coach can influence is the effort of his players.

how do you make a grand final being non competitive?

 

[Macca19]

The fact he made the Granny in 07 is his only saving grace at the moment. Its the sole reason he got a new contract.

 

[Jabsy]

how do you make a grand final being non competitive?

That game was when "being competitive" stopped.

 

[PowerForGood]

10 years
60% w/l record
7 finals campaigns
3 minor premierships
2 g'fs
1 premiership

(most of the above accomplishments coinciding with the great 3-peat Brisbane Lions outfit makes it all the more meritorous, we were the only ones to go toe-to-toe with them with the exception of Collingwood 2002)

The number of clubs that would jump on him given the chance...
plus the fact that there have been a number of changes at all levels of the club over the last couple of years, and they came to the conclusion to keep Choco...

leads me to believe the right decision has been made.

Now, for the response from the playing group, and the supporter base.

 

[brogan2motlop]

but this is the sort of thing that makes or breaks a club...

just have a look at what the geelong supporters were saying when bomber got resigned in 2006 i think ?

and i think geelong ended going 0-3 after their first 3 games....

massive gamble...

on a side note Chocco the next sheedz.....i am angry at chocco but jeez i love him....


when warren retires i just hope he thinks about coaching...

 

[The Hobo]

I'm not sure choco is the problem. I think the support staff is.

We have too many former players - who spent almost their entire career under Choco...

I think most of these guys need to go, and only the good ones to stay. It's all nice and warm to have former players become coaches, but we must be the only club to have so many of our own former players in coaching roles. yes - it is good in a way, but also terrible in a wya.

Furthermore, most of these guys are used to taking orders from choco instead of voicing their own opinions

 

[FishingRick04]

Furthermore, most of these guys are used to taking orders from choco instead of voicing their own opinions

Lets not go down this path, surely they are big boys, I can't believe this line, even though it's circa Rucci 2008. Don't listen to everything rucci says.

some new assistant and manager would be nice however

 

[klem22]

I'm not sure choco is the problem. I think the support staff is.

We have too many former players - who spent almost their entire career under Choco...

I think most of these guys need to go, and only the good ones to stay. It's all nice and warm to have former players become coaches, but we must be the only club to have so many of our own former players in coaching roles. yes - it is good in a way, but also terrible in a wya.

Furthermore, most of these guys are used to taking orders from choco instead of voicing their own opinions

The man is meant to be the head coach he calls the shots the reason this club is visionless is because he is get with it man

 

[tribey]

10 years
60% w/l record
7 finals campaigns
3 minor premierships
2 g'fs
1 premiership

The sort of rationale that saw Essendon give Sheedy one or two contract extensions too many, for mine. There's past glories, and then there's the reality of the present.

 

[PowerKat]

That game was when "being competitive" stopped.

then what was going on in 05/06? We played the same crap uncompetitive stuff back then also, including getting smashed in a final vs the crows

 

[Magpiespower]

10 years
60% w/l record
7 finals campaigns
3 minor premierships
2 g'fs
1 premiership

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z0h_c9eH-8

 

[kaysee]

The most concerning thing for me is many bad habits within our team and gameplan still exist and will continue to do so under MW.

As I stated in a thread after the Sydney defeat:

1) Too many times teams kick 6-9 goals in a row against us with out response. This has been happening for most of MW coaching career, but more often in last 3-4 years.

2) Certain teams continue to show us up in hard contested football: Sydney, Adelaide, Geelong... have all done so for a majority of the last 4 years.

3) Too many "Gold Passes"... faith in players who played 2004 glory days.

4) Conversely too slow on giving REAL opportunity to develop our young talent... MW only does so when there is no other choice. Example... no young developing rucks, Carlile and Chappy only got in when there was little other choice.

5) Obsessed with playing players out of position in an attempt to be a "Clever Coach"... Cornes, Ebert, Salopek to name a few. Forwards are often out of position or wrong targets used... how often to we lob kick to a small foward?

6) Poor overall gameplan. Our zones rarely work and neither does possession football. Gameplan is built around mainting ball until a stoggage occurs and trying to win contest using dominant rucks around the stoppage... problem is rucks (Lade esp) are going downhill, Jnr Burger (our best clearance player) isn't playing, and it is too predictable... if we get beaten at stoppages we get smashed. NO PLAN B.

7) Too often MW mistreats injured players... rushing them back early or playing them injured. Cornes, Salopek and Motlop this year alone.

8) Overall attitude. MW, players and club seem too focused/worried about other teams/clubs in their comments to the media. Too often we hear comparrisons to other teams. IMO too often we try and find the "silver lining" and too often we look too far foward. I prefer 1 contest at a time, 1 quarter at a time, 1 week at a time... nothing further ahead then that.

IMO inherited a top class list in 1999. In 2001-2005 that initial list was refined and hit its peak with dominate players on every line. This period has inflated MW record. Since 2005 MW record would be rather poor.

 

[PhoenixPower]

I'm not sure choco is the problem. I think the support staff is.

We have too many former players - who spent almost their entire career under Choco...

I think most of these guys need to go, and only the good ones to stay. It's all nice and warm to have former players become coaches, but we must be the only club to have so many of our own former players in coaching roles. yes - it is good in a way, but also terrible in a wya.

Furthermore, most of these guys are used to taking orders from choco instead of voicing their own opinions

not just players who were under chocco, but also teammates and friends of the current group

i know first hand how hard it is to be the boss of a friend and sometimes you arent as harsh on them as you need to be, and when you are it isnt always taken as seriously as they know you are just towing the company line and dont take it onboard as strongly

i think primus and kingsley should go.... i like them but i would prefer more outside influence within our assitant ranks

(that said if treddas retires - he should be kept at all costs)

 

[PowerForGood]

The sort of rationale that saw Essendon give Sheedy one or two contract extensions too many, for mine. There's past glories, and then there's the reality of the present.

Have a look at Essendon 1987 (I think that was about 7 years into his reign), then Essendon 1990.

Have a look at Essendon 1992 (I think that was about 12 years into his reign), then Essendon 1993.

Have a look at Essendon 1997 (I think that was about 17 years into his reign) then Essendon 2000.

It's when he fell into a Jenny-Craig type Lets-just-make-the-finals thinking that he fell on his sword.

 

[Si_Fly]

The fact he made the Granny in 07 is his only saving grace at the moment. Its the sole reason he got a new contract.

Yeah, I think your spot on there. 2007 showed that success is within reach.

 

[Forzaport]

The most concerning thing for me is many bad habits within our team and gameplan still exist and will continue to do so under MW.

As I stated in a thread after the Sydney defeat:

1) Too many times teams kick 6-9 goals in a row against us with out response. This has been happening for most of MW coaching career, but more often in last 3-4 years.

Agreed. This has been a major sticking point for me and probably the biggest negative to retaining choco. Having said that, choco has shown he's adaptive so I have to hope he can turn this around.

2) Certain teams continue to show us up in hard contested football: Sydney, Adelaide, Geelong... have all done so for a majority of the last 4 years.

Let's be honest, geelong have pretty much beaten everyone over the last few years. We're still the last team to beat them at skilled. Our recent form against adelaide has improved, although we a still sydney's bunnies - but i don't see anything too wrong with that. Every team has an opponent they struggle against.

3) Too many "Gold Passes"... faith in players who played 2004 glory days.

I think this has been done to death. Players go in and out of form, some will be persisted with, others won't. Toby hasn't got too many favours this year. There will always be selections that will be questioned. It'll happen regardless of if choco is coach or not.

4) Conversely too slow on giving REAL opportunity to develop our young talent... MW only does so when there is no other choice. Example... no young developing rucks, Carlile and Chappy only got in when there was little other choice.

Funny, choco was praised for this and now it's a negative against him. I guess those 5 games deluca got last year didn't happen? It's not for a lack of trying in finding replacements for lade and brogan.

5) Obsessed with playing players out of position in an attempt to be a "Clever Coach"... Cornes, Ebert, Salopek to name a few. Forwards are often out of position or wrong targets used... how often to we lob kick to a small foward?

How much of this is due to purely to coaching? If our midfield is getting smashed, the forwards will push up. This also makes me question the abilities of the midfield and forward coach as well.

6) Poor overall gameplan. Our zones rarely work and neither does possession football. Gameplan is built around mainting ball until a stoggage occurs and trying to win contest using dominant rucks around the stoppage... problem is rucks (Lade esp) are going downhill, Jnr Burger (our best clearance player) isn't playing, and it is too predictable... if we get beaten at stoppages we get smashed. NO PLAN B.

Tredders said that choco introduced a different gameplan after the break, so i guess we'll have to see how it pans out. We're thin on clearance players and our rucks are slowing - that'll hurt irrespective of gameplan.

7) Too often MW mistreats injured players... rushing them back early or playing them injured. Cornes, Salopek and Motlop this year alone.

That's just harsh. Chad was supposedly ready to go and was playing very well until his knee gave up. Salopek wanted to continue playing and Motlop had a different injury to the one that kept him out 2 weeks prior.

8) Overall attitude. MW, players and club seem too focused/worried about other teams/clubs in their comments to the media. Too often we hear comparrisons to other teams. IMO too often we try and find the "silver lining" and too often we look too far foward. I prefer 1 contest at a time, 1 quarter at a time, 1 week at a time... nothing further ahead then that.

IMO inherited a top class list in 1999. In 2001-2005 that initial list was refined and hit its peak with dominate players on every line. This period has inflated MW record. Since 2005 MW record would be rather poor.

I think choco's attitude has been fantastic since the change in ceo and president. They put the torch on him and he has performed to their satisfaction such that he's going to be here a little longer. Any team going through a rebuilding phase will have a poor record. Not many would be playing off in a grand final during that phase.

 

[PAFC04]

Agreed. This has been a major sticking point for me and probably the biggest negative to retaining choco. Having said that, choco has shown he's adaptive so I have to hope he can turn this around.



Let's be honest, geelong have pretty much beaten everyone over the last few years. We're still the last team to beat them at skilled. Our recent form against adelaide has improved, although we a still sydney's bunnies - but i don't see anything too wrong with that. Every team has an opponent they struggle against.



I think this has been done to death. Players go in and out of form, some will be persisted with, others won't. Toby hasn't got too many favours this year. There will always be selections that will be questioned. It'll happen regardless of if choco is coach or not.



Funny, choco was praised for this and now it's a negative against him. I guess those 5 games deluca got last year didn't happen? It's not for a lack of trying in finding replacements for lade and brogan.



How much of this is due to purely to coaching? If our midfield is getting smashed, the forwards will push up. This also makes me question the abilities of the midfield and forward coach as well.



Tredders said that choco introduced a different gameplan after the break, so i guess we'll have to see how it pans out. We're thin on clearance players and our rucks are slowing - that'll hurt irrespective of gameplan.



That's just harsh. Chad was supposedly ready to go and was playing very well until his knee gave up. Salopek wanted to continue playing and Motlop had a different injury to the one that kept him out 2 weeks prior.



I think choco's attitude has been fantastic since the change in ceo and president. They put the torch on him and he has performed to their satisfaction such that he's going to be here a little longer. Any team going through a rebuilding phase will have a poor record. Not many would be playing off in a grand final during that phase.

If we are rebuilding, then why dont we show more of younger players!! Why did we pick up Carr?

I can accept poor performances on the basis that we had younger players playing, however I dont see many of them, if anything, they have performed better than seniors in some cases.

Rebuilding to me, is to replace, using some structure as it was before.

 

[PJ Power]

Yeah, there seems to be a bit of self-contradicting in some of the rationale from the club and the posters on this board defending Williams.

This 5 year plan talk and the notion that we are doing ok this year because we were the 13th ranked team last year, does nothing to alleviate my major concern that relates to our uncompetitiveness in too many matches.

If anyone can disprove our lack of competitiveness in 5-6 of our 7 losses this year, please do so. I would class much of the Geelong game as uncompetitive also, at least when the game was up for grabs.

 

[Wildmanwok]

10 years
60% w/l record
7 finals campaigns
3 minor premierships
2 g'fs
1 premiership

Thats exactly why.

Find me another available coach with a better record.

If only it wasn't for that mongrel mob in BrisVegas.

 

[Power King]

^That's all well and good, but let's put things into context.

What has Choco done from 2005 onwards to deserve his new contract?