Autopsy You get what you deserve - vs GWS review thread

[Peninsula Boy]

Thats being very generous to Farrell to say that was a contested mark.
Defensively, he showed Toby Greene the level of respect that you would give to Jed McEntee.

It looked like a contested mark to me.

I am pretty sure Farrell was his 3rd opponent of the night, possibly 4th.
Burton got a few kicked on him early.
Bergman kept him quiet.
Farrell got that kicked on him late. I mean, we were down, so Farrell has to be thinking about running off but it is Toby Green.

I just had another look at it. Farrell was hoping for the 3rd up but Burton was too slow and McKenzie was slack. The 3 of them weren't great on that occasion. Green was just too good and performed when it mattered.

 

[The Hobo]

Can we not let the club or the media get away with this 'but their backline and ruck!' thing when:

1) Said backline and ruck were good enough to go 16-7 in the home and away season including convincing wins against both of the teams that flogged us in the finals.
2) The area that let us down the most in the finals was in fact our midfield, the supposed great strength of the team.
3) The coach was on record as saying this is the best list he has ever had, which as far as I know includes the defence and ruck lines.
4) No team in the league has a perfect team of stars and getting the sum of the parts to perform better as a whole is literally the entire job of the coach otherwise you might as well just tell them to go out and play.

1 - the media were calling this out as an issue even during our winning streak. Both David King and Daniel Hoyne mentioned it many times that our defense will kill us
2 - The midfield did let us down, but the midfield was let down by our ruck situation. Brisbane scored more goals from stoppage than against any other team.
3 - Sure, he's not exactly going to say it's the worst list he's had
4 - Agreed, but no team has such a staggering lack of depth in defence that made it beyond where we are today. Even without any injuries, it's a very unconvincing backline. Throw in that Clurey played 0 games, Jonas had nothing left in the tank and McKenzie was rolling his ankle every second week, i'm not sure what you were expecting.


Ppl got carried away with the winning streak and the hype, but the problems were there all along that we somehow papered over for a while. Again, I should highlight that nobody even had us in the top 8 at the start of the season.

 

[The Hobo]

It looked like a contested mark to me.

I am pretty sure Farrell was his 3rd opponent of the night, possibly 4th.
Burton got a few kicked on him early.
Bergman kept him quiet.
Farrell got that kicked on him late. I mean, we were down, so Farrell has to be thinking about running off but it is Toby Green.

I had the feeling Burton was trying to play off him to make him more accountable the other way, but then kept getting caught out. Needed to just play a full lock down role on him.

 

[TeeKray]

1 - the media were calling this out as an issue even during our winning streak. Both David King and Daniel Hoyne mentioned it many times that our defense will kill us
2 - The midfield did let us down, but the midfield was let down by our ruck situation. Brisbane scored more goals from stoppage than against any other team.
3 - Sure, he's not exactly going to say it's the worst list he's had
4 - Agreed, but no team has such a staggering lack of depth in defence that made it beyond where we are today. Even without any injuries, it's a very unconvincing backline. Throw in that Clurey played 0 games, Jonas had nothing left in the tank and McKenzie was rolling his ankle every second week, i'm not sure what you were expecting.

1 - Then how the hell did we beat Brisbane and particularly GWS so easily during the season? I accept Brisbane was round one which is flukey but we smashed GWS only a month ago. And at the end of the day 17-6 is 17-6, no matter what anyone says. If you're good enough to get there then you're good enough to at least COMPETE in finals (note - we didn't even compete, we got smashed).
2 - Our midfield destroyed GWS' midfield a month ago. Sam Hayes was ruck on that occasion. Why didn't he ruck on Saturday? Either way, I don't accept that the ruckman is the difference here. Again, we went 16-7 with our midfield dominant in most games regardless of who was ruck, it can't have been that bad.
3 - He did not have to say it was the best list he's had.
4 - I was expecting the coach to come up with a strategy to maximise our strengths and minimise our weaknesses like all other good teams do. Actually, I wasn't expecting that at all, because the coach sucks.

 

[Portology]

we not let the club or the media get away with this

The spin is disgraceful and hides the details but it's not like there's nothing to it. The truth is somewhere in between. Mythbust all we want though but no one is reaching the happy clappers.

'but their backline and ruck!' thing when:

1) Said backline

OK ignoring an injured Jonas but McKenzie should not have been forced into humiliation while injured. That we came into the season with no other viable KPD options and left it with a listless Burton trailing Greene until Miles stepped up is also on the coach/list mgt. Much as I've been ho-hum on Esava taken in isolation - he'd have been more useful on Hogan than a crippled McKenzie. Rest of the season we've scraped through but on the night what we started with a broken component, and then our midfield shat on it.

and ruck

Fair call, we have mostly got away with "limitations" in ruck. On the night Lycett won some taps but to neutral space and at maybe matched Hayes's err level of mobility around the ground. Hayes could have been "readier", given more opportunity, and would have won more taps. As it is Finny and Dixon had to take some of the load anyway. Poor, meant the game was going to be tight at best, but didn't have to be the breaking point IMO.

were good enough to go 16-7 in the home and away season including convincing wins against both of the teams that flogged us in the finals.
2) The area that let us down the most in the finals was in fact our midfield, the supposed great strength of the team.

Yes, in the same sense that a piston going through the head and knocking off the distributor is an "electrical problem". Urgh yes the midfield got pantsed and I don't understand that but the defence was already broken, all year we've been kinda worried about exactly this meltdown scenario. I guess the midfield group should have been more prepared for and have more scope for some sort of bloody plan B but they didn't.

3) The coach was on record as saying this is the best list he has ever had, which as far as I know includes the defence and ruck lines.

If he can't coach, which we agree on, he's also probably not that much chop at assessing lists, and it's not like the KPD and ruck haven't been pointed at in recent years. The knock here is the public BS from more than just the coach - on top of any incorrect internal assessment. Maybe even the Constanza rule also applies for the incompetent: "It's not a lie if you believe it".

4) No team in the league has a perfect team of stars and getting the sum of the parts to perform better as a whole is literally the entire job of the coach otherwise you might as well just tell them to go out and play.

Yep Just need to keep finding that missing part* and the coach naturally has less of a job to do, hey?

*Oh look, there it is, shiny thing on a scrap heap near where the distributor ended up.

Counterfactual: Finny down back with "one goal in mind" on Hogan, Bonner for Duursma, Raz for McEntee, Hayes for Lycett, Narkle/Evans as sub on for DBJ at some point and McKenzie omitted... there's IMO a net three goal difference so we still lose due to poorer conversion. And that's my arm waving ignorant best case scenario where we attempt to select a side to actually win to compensate for the issues coaching and list management failures have left us with. The club spinning the injuries as an excuse for all the other failures over time... disgraceful.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I had the feeling Burton was trying to play off him to make him more accountable the other way, but then kept getting caught out. Needed to just play a full lock down role on him.

I think we played Green pretty well all match.

 

[Festerz]

From a personal perspective, there was at least one positive thing to come from the game on Sat night.

Having dodged getting covid all this time, I woke up with the classic symptoms this morning and just tested positive.

This week has been special!

 

[Duckimus Prime]

It looked like a contested mark to me.

I am pretty sure Farrell was his 3rd opponent of the night, possibly 4th.
Burton got a few kicked on him early.
Bergman kept him quiet.
Farrell got that kicked on him late. I mean, we were down, so Farrell has to be thinking about running off but it is Toby Green.

I just had another look at it. Farrell was hoping for the 3rd up but Burton was too slow and McKenzie was slack. The 3 of them weren't great on that occasion. Green was just too good and performed when it mattered.

It was a defensive handoff. Bergman had to go to the player with the ball so Farrell should come in to cover him. Farrell didn't.

He didn't even put any body pressure on Greene taking that mark. Its a contested mark in that Champion Data gives a contested mark if someone was close. Farrell didn't contest the mark at all.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Rucci's Monday Review: Reflect, Restock, React

Port Adelaide's AFL campaign in 2023 has fallen short of internal expectations. The lessons from a tough finish to a promising season serve for the continuing chase of greatness.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Another Rucci masterpiece.
Well no one expected us to win the Premiership so a wonderful year.
"Opportunity missed but not wasted"

How can they peddle this absolute tripe.

A tough read. Rucci has really been riding Edward Bernays this year. Tough gig and he looks the worst for it.

The only positive I got out of the article is that Drew could captain the side if what he said in the article is true.

 

[Papa G]

From a personal perspective, there was at least one positive thing to come from the game on Sat night.

Having dodged getting covid all this time, I woke up with the classic symptoms this morning and just tested positive.

This week has been special!

What, the Boosters didn't save you?

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It was a defensive handoff. Bergman had to go to the player with the ball so Farrell should come in to cover him. Farrell didn't.

He didn't even put any body pressure on Greene taking that mark. Its a contested mark in that Champion Data gives a contested mark if someone was close. Farrell didn't contest the mark at all.

Fair enough.

I am happy to agree to disagree with you over this minor point.

Farrell is on Toby for that passage of play.
What I will say is that Farrell is touching him as he is marking the ball.

Whether it was a contested mark or a plain old mark, it was a fantastic mark by Toby as the ball was in the air for such a long time that a 3rd man should be killed the contest. I hate to talk about ghosts but Jonas would have killed that contest. Anyway, the ensuing goal pretty much sealed the game.

But my original point is that we could've won the game if we kick straight in the last. Even though we played pretty average to poor for the whole game.

 

[Chrizzt]

All the damage was done in a 10 minute period. Q2 4 mins to 14 mins, GWS were +31 points. Outside of that 10 mins, Port were +8 points.

Our mids in Q2:

• Butters: 3 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Rozee: 4 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• JHF: 7 disposals (4 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 0 tackles, no score
• Boak: 5 disposals (5 contested, 2 effective, 1 clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Wines: 2 disposals (1 contested, 1 effective, 1 clearance), 0 tackles, no score
• Drew: 5 disposals (3 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 2 tackles, 1.0

So in the second quarter, our 6 key midfielders had:

• 13 contested possessions
• 13 effective disposals
• 2 clearances
• 5 tackles
• 1.3

Compared to Coniglio's second qtr of: 13 disposals (4 contested, 7 effective, 2 clearances), 1 tackle, 2.1

Coniglio single-handedly equalled the output of our 6 best midfielders in the second qtr. Sure, he had a freakishly good quarter. But I reckon even if only 2 of Butters, Rozee, or Wines had not even outstanding, just solid output in the second quarter, the "tsunami" doesn't happen and we win the game.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

All the damage was done in a 10 minute period. Q2 4 mins to 14 mins, GWS were +31 points. Outside of that 10 mins, Port were +8 points.

Our mids in Q2:

• Butters: 3 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Rozee: 4 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• JHF: 7 disposals (4 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 0 tackles, no score
• Boak: 5 disposals (5 contested, 2 effective, 1 clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Wines: 2 disposals (1 contested, 1 effective, 1 clearance), 0 tackles, no score
• Drew: 5 disposals (3 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 2 tackles, 1.0

So in the second quarter, our 6 key midfielders had:

• 13 contested possessions
• 13 effective disposals
• 2 clearances
• 5 tackles
• 1.3

Compared to Coniglio's second qtr of: 13 disposals (4 contested, 7 effective, 2 clearances), 1 tackle, 2.1

Coniglio single-handedly equalled the output of our 6 best midfielders in the second qtr. Sure, he had a freakishly good quarter. But I reckon even if only 2 of Butters, Rozee, or Wines had not even outstanding, just solid output in the second quarter, the "tsunami" doesn't happen and we win the game.

Totally agree. Coniglio and Hogan up forward tore us a new one.

I am pretty sure Rozee was on Coniglio so Rozee has an aboslute shocker no matter which way you cut it.

And as many have said, they kicked a fair few points in a row late in that quarter, after Cummings kicks that great goal from outside 50.

 

[Janey]

From a personal perspective, there was at least one positive thing to come from the game on Sat night.

Having dodged getting covid all this time, I woke up with the classic symptoms this morning and just tested positive.

This week has been special!

Covid should be a walk in the park compared to sitting through the last couple of games.

 

[The Hobo]

1 - Then how the hell did we beat Brisbane and particularly GWS so easily during the season? I accept Brisbane was round one which is flukey but we smashed GWS only a month ago. And at the end of the day 17-6 is 17-6, no matter what anyone says. If you're good enough to get there then you're good enough to at least COMPETE in finals (note - we didn't even compete, we got smashed).
2 - Our midfield destroyed GWS' midfield a month ago. Sam Hayes was ruck on that occasion. Why didn't he ruck on Saturday? Either way, I don't accept that the ruckman is the difference here. Again, we went 16-7 with our midfield dominant in most games regardless of who was ruck, it can't have been that bad.
3 - He did not have to say it was the best list he's had.
4 - I was expecting the coach to come up with a strategy to maximise our strengths and minimise our weaknesses like all other good teams do. Actually, I wasn't expecting that at all, because the coach sucks.

1 - as you said, early in the season for Brissie. Doesn't count for much in r1. GWS were missing Bedford, Daniels, Taylor and one other I think. The way they play, Bedford and Daniels are very important to them, and Taylor is one of the best defenders in the league.
2 - I would have preferred Hayes to ruck, but also don't know the extent of his injury. We all know Hayes is not a preferred option though.
3 - Perhaps - not really sure how it would have changed anything.
4 - I do agree to a degree here, but again, not many other tools available to him, and the current plan did work well for the majority of the season. The injuries piled up late and there wasn't much time to experiment. (or options)

 

[The Hobo]

All the damage was done in a 10 minute period. Q2 4 mins to 14 mins, GWS were +31 points. Outside of that 10 mins, Port were +8 points.

Our mids in Q2:

• Butters: 3 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Rozee: 4 disposals (no contested, 1 effective, no clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• JHF: 7 disposals (4 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 0 tackles, no score
• Boak: 5 disposals (5 contested, 2 effective, 1 clearances), 1 tackle, 0.1
• Wines: 2 disposals (1 contested, 1 effective, 1 clearance), 0 tackles, no score
• Drew: 5 disposals (3 contested, 4 effective, no clearances), 2 tackles, 1.0

So in the second quarter, our 6 key midfielders had:

• 13 contested possessions
• 13 effective disposals
• 2 clearances
• 5 tackles
• 1.3

Compared to Coniglio's second qtr of: 13 disposals (4 contested, 7 effective, 2 clearances), 1 tackle, 2.1

Coniglio single-handedly equalled the output of our 6 best midfielders in the second qtr. Sure, he had a freakishly good quarter. But I reckon even if only 2 of Butters, Rozee, or Wines had not even outstanding, just solid output in the second quarter, the "tsunami" doesn't happen and we win the game.

Lycett in the second quarter: 0 kicks, 0 handballs, 5 CBA's & 13 Ruck Contests for 2 hit outs and 1 Free against
Briggs only had the 1 handball, 5 CBA's, 17 Ruck contests for 10 hit outs, 1 clearance , 1 tackle and 1 Free for

10 hit outs to 2 is pathetic and is why I feel the rot started from the ruck. Lycett was never a dominant ruck, but he had the ability to neutralise his opponent. He can't do that anymore, and it's only after he got subbed off that we started to get our hands on the ball a bit more. By then it was a bridge too far and our finishing was never going to allow us back in.

 

[powerfan07]

So 2 finals and not 1 coaches vote for a port player in either game

 

[Festerz]

So 2 finals and not 1 coaches vote for a port player in either game

Rioli a bit stiff imho.

 

[Portology]

Rioli a bit stiff imho.

Lord??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Festerz]

Lord??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm an atheist.

 

[Jojay]

So 2 finals and not 1 coaches vote for a port player in either game

Damning

 

[Windy Cindy]

Lycett in the second quarter: 0 kicks, 0 handballs, 5 CBA's & 13 Ruck Contests for 2 hit outs and 1 Free against
Briggs only had the 1 handball, 5 CBA's, 17 Ruck contests for 10 hit outs, 1 clearance , 1 tackle and 1 Free for

10 hit outs to 2 is pathetic and is why I feel the rot started from the ruck. Lycett was never a dominant ruck, but he had the ability to neutralise his opponent. He can't do that anymore, and it's only after he got subbed off that we started to get our hands on the ball a bit more. By then it was a bridge too far and our finishing was never going to allow us back in.

Will be leading the port district rucks.. he’s beyond cooked..

 

[Schulzenfest]

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

Yes.

Take out the mental side of things and any professional footballer would nail 90% of the set shots they take on skill execution alone. Set shots are about confidence more than anything else. Ken has proven over a long time that he doesn't have the ability to instil the team with confidence come finals time.

 

[Papa G]

The Kenny's mates with the boys stuff makes me vomit.

In the wake of Barassi's passing, you notice how glowing everybody was with him even though he could cut you down and rip paint off the walls. Players both respected and feared him.

I had 2 Port Adelaide Royalty coaches in Year 8 and Year 10 at school. In Year 8 I had Bucky Cunningham, softly spoken, never got emotional, just monotone really. In Year 10 I had Neville Chicken Hayes. Angry, Animated, Intimidating, Screamed a lot, demanded toughness, old school.

Chicken Hayes was by far and away the better coach. Probably my favourite coach. I know they say the new generation don't respond the fire and brimstone stuff, but FMD, there needs to be respect for the position, not cuddles. These players and this club needs a fresh voice.

Quoting myself here but Tredrea said a similar thing not 4 hours later on his podcast. He said Choco always had you feeling whether he was totally in your corner. He could flick the switch. He could throw something at you to throw you out of your comfort zone. Basically the coach is the coach, not your bum buddy.

 

[OneGreatClub]

From a personal perspective, there was at least one positive thing to come from the game on Sat night.

Having dodged getting covid all this time, I woke up with the classic symptoms this morning and just tested positive.

This week has been special!

Bummer