Autopsy You get what you deserve - vs GWS review thread

[The Hobo]

I wonder who decided to take Narkle in the mid-season draft.
In hindsight it appears to be a wasted pick as Ken refuses to pick him.

Former Swans ruckman Naismith was eating em alive in the AFL.
I know Naismith had a problem with his knee, but he would have been an ideal short term solution to our ruck problem.
Ditto for defenders.

Mid-season players swaps will soon be a feature so the recruiters and Coaches have to be on the same page.

Narkle did play some games for us, and provides good squad depth. No doubt has a few things to work on, but I don't see it as a wasted pick.

I do agree that we should have gone Naismith, but then we've also got Lycett, Hayes, Teakle and Vicentini on the books. That would make 5 rucks which isn't ideal and likely played into it.

 

[The Hobo]

We've had good enough lists to do better than we've done. Premiership? Maybe. GFs? Definitely. But as a whole we've never had a unit that's cohesive, mentally strong, confident under pressure and follows an effective game plan. How many times have Port "not come to play" in big matches? That's squarely on Hinkley and it's why he should be gone, and should have been gone years ago.

We were pretty damn close to a GF to be fair.

 

[The Hobo]

As far as I know, we don't have a kicking coach.

Perhaps not, but it would be in someones remit to train kicking/skills/set shots etc.

Maybe that's the issue, though our field kicking is elite. Whatever the case, how do we know Hinkley hasn't been screaming for a goalkicking coach and been rebuffed due to cost or other factors? We simply don't know. What we do know though is that it wouldn't be the head coaches job to teach the players to kick at goal. That's what the assistants and plethora of other coaches are for.

 

[elbarton]

I'll bite, as someone that's been accused of being a "happy clapper"

I'm certainly not a "keep Ken" person, i'd much rather have waited till end of season before re-signing him, and after the result, I would not have kept him on. But guess what, he's here now, and I don't think he's solely responsible for our failures - watching Matthew Lloyd on the Sunday Footy Show and he pointed out the blatantly obvious, our weakness last season was in ruck and key defence. That was exposed yet again in the two finals. We all know it. No coach is winning the flag with our current ruck and Key Defender situation.

So then the question becomes - is that on Ken Hinkley, or is that on Jason Cripps? We all love Cripps, and he's done a great job building our list, however he has a weak spot when it comes to Key position players and ruckman. I personally feel that this has had a bigger issue on our success over a long period of time than Ken.


Ken can only do with what tools he has. We have been forced to play injured players for the second half of the season due to a complete lack of depth. McKenzie ideally wouldn't have played due to his injury, but what was the next option? Lycett was horrible yet again, and then got injured. His alternative was Hayes with a bung shoulder. Everywhere you look, there was players carrying bad injuries. Our medical team has not had a great season, and I'd say a review needs to be done, particularly considering the concussion saga earlier.

Let's look at the list.

Defence - We are really poor defensively, losing the most 1 on 1's in the competition. McKenzie, Aliir etc. lose nearly half their one on ones. The stats are clear on this. McKenzie is too undersized for many of the forwards he plays on, and he's lost a tonne of pace. He should be playing as a third tall. Aliir is great when allowed to play loose as an interceptor, but he loses as many one on ones as McKenzie.

Ruck - Lycett has been solid for us for a long time, but he's totally ineffective now apart from a patch of about 3 weeks. Hayes has his strengths and weaknesses, but realistically isn't the answer. Teakle simply not ready/may never be ready.

Forwards - Great promise shown by Lord, Georgy was injured and forgot how to kick before that, Charlie has spent the whole season on one leg - but let's be honest, even at his best is far from a big goal kicker - which leaves Marshall, who's also playing injured and totally lost his form at the end of the season. Finlayson with all the off field stuff going on has suffered as well. Horrible set shot accuracy throughout.

Midfield is the one and only tick, but it gets nullified when we get smashed in the ruck.

How can we honestly expect to win the premiership with this list in it's current form?


So in summary, I don't think any coach would have won us the premiership this season with the squad we have and the current condition of the players.

Would I have re-signed Ken? No.
Do I think he's the reason we haven't succeeded? No I don't think so. I don't think our list has ever been strong enough holistically. We've had great players throughout, but so does every other team. As an entire unit - the answer is no.
And most importantly, Do I think we can win a flag under Hinkley? Yes, if we can fix the obvious deficiencies in our list.

People want to blame someone, and Ken will cop it, and that's fine. But it's important to look a bit deeper beneath the surface rather than the very simplistic argument that "he's been here X years and we won 0,sack Ken"

We have those deficits in our list because we haven’t developed homegrown key defenders or rucks, throughout his entire tenure. It’s not like we haven’t picked up any of these types in the draft. He has squibbed countless opportunities to expose them to AFL football, instead choosing to either run players into the ground (Aliir 2022; Lycett, McKenzie and Dixon 2023 as recent examples) or unnecessarily change the structure of the team by selecting makeshift replacements, or not play a KPP at all. He has simply opted to expend our draft capital or free agency money on getting these players in. He even managed the likes of Ladhams and Dougal Howard out of the club! In sum, he doesn’t get to evade responsibility for the gaps in the list.

 

[MrMeaner]

People realise that blaming the list manager for not filling particular roles is the off-field equivalent of "he can't kick it for them," don't they?

 

[morell]

Blaming poor accuracy in front of goals on just kicking skill execution is like only addressing tight hamstrings when you have a crook back.

No, Ken Hinkley cannot be solely held responsible for Todd Marshall

4

Todd Marshall

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

8.9

2star

K

7.1

3star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.6

5star

missing one kick in one game

But he can be held responsible for

1. Todd's mental fortitude over many years not improving
2. A game plan that requires key forwards to run around like blue assed flies and then be exhausted when trying to kick at goal
3. A forward line structure and method that requires chaos and ground balls rather than clean hit ups, resulting in key forwards not taking their time.
4. A ball movement method that insists on kicking to pockets, meaning tighter angles and more difficult shots or from long distances.
5. A lack of coaching on forward movements, leading patterns, drop zone protection and repeat efforts that results in getting space in the right areas for effective goal kicking
6. Overly risk adverse F50 entries.
7. Poor skill execution from the delivery meaning not set up for straight forward shots.
8....

I could list a dozen of these. I don't know the answers or how to fix it. Ken Hinkley should and has 11 years to do so and failed

 

[The Hobo]

We have those deficits in our list because we haven’t developed homegrown key defenders or rucks, throughout his entire tenure. It’s not like we haven’t picked up any of these types in the draft. He has squibbed countless opportunities to expose them to AFL football, instead choosing to either run players into the ground (Aliir 2022; Lycett, McKenzie and Dixon 2023 as recent examples) or unnecessarily change the structure of the team by selecting makeshift replacements, or not play a KPP at all. He has simply opted to expend our draft capital or free agency money on getting these players in. He even managed the likes of Ladhams and Dougal Howard out of the club! In sum, he doesn’t get to evade responsibility for the gaps in the list.

The same Ladhams and Howard that can't get a game at the Swans and the Saints? They're playing Hickey and Cordy over them. Doesn't really scream out like a missed opportunity to me.

I can't think of any other rucks or key position players that Ken has had at his disposal that he's 'wasted'. I can't think of any that even showed potential that he didn't give an opportunity to.

You'd think based on your comment that Ken has let a bunch of tall blokes go to other clubs and they've all become All Australians.

We simply have not drafted any that have been worthy. The ones that showed any signs were all given ample opportunity.

 

[The Hobo]

People realise that blaming the list manager for not filling particular roles is the off-field equivalent of "he can't kick it for them," don't they?

I don't believe they're remotely equivalent to be fair. If the list manager isn't getting tall defenders in, then what is the coach supposed to do? Yes, i'm well aware it's a joint decision but the fact we were actively chasing Ratugolea even last season means that they were well aware of the shortfall, just failed to address it.

 

[Sheeds]

Rucci's Monday Review: Reflect, Restock, React

Port Adelaide's AFL campaign in 2023 has fallen short of internal expectations. The lessons from a tough finish to a promising season serve for the continuing chase of greatness.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Another Rucci masterpiece.
Well no one expected us to win the Premiership so a wonderful year.
"Opportunity missed but not wasted"

How can they peddle this absolute tripe.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Toby Greene. Fantastic one on one contested mark on Farrell. Easy goal

Thats being very generous to Farrell to say that was a contested mark.
Defensively, he showed Toby Greene the level of respect that you would give to Jed McEntee.

 

[bomberclifford]

The same Ladhams and Howard that can't get a game at the Swans and the Saints? They're playing Hickey and Cordy over them. Doesn't really scream out like a missed opportunity to me.

I can't think of any other rucks or key position players that Ken has had at his disposal that he's 'wasted'. I can't think of any that even showed potential that he didn't give an opportunity to.

You'd think based on your comment that Ken has let a bunch of tall blokes go to other clubs and they've all become All Australians.

We simply have not drafted any that have been worthy. The ones that showed any signs were all given ample opportunity.

Wasn't Ladhams not playing due to being injured?
Broke his ankle from memory.

 

[Capital Power]

Rucci's Monday Review: Reflect, Restock, React

Port Adelaide's AFL campaign in 2023 has fallen short of internal expectations. The lessons from a tough finish to a promising season serve for the continuing chase of greatness.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Another Rucci masterpiece.
Well no one expected us to win the Premiership so a wonderful year.
"Opportunity missed but not wasted"

How can they peddle this absolute tripe.

"the continuous chase of greatness". Vomit.

The only thing being chased this year was an unwarranted and undeserved contract extension. It was a completely wasted season for everyone else.

We haven't developed replacements for our positional holes or made our game plan more resilient to the better-coached teams (which will soon be just about all of them).

Perhaps they should get a season review from someone not on the payroll?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Blaming the list manager for our defensive issues is harsh when we had the best defence in 2020 and have added Aliir since then. We've had Pasini on the list for half a decade and he never gets a run. We traded away Howard.

Blaming the list manager for the ruck deficiencies is insane because Hinkley has flat out refused to back any developing ruck in apart from the one who can't play at all, and is happy to grind an average ruckman in Lycett into dust despite him stinking up the field every time he plays.

The list managers got him Hayes, who is the perfect age to take over and won a SANFL B&F before playing generally well at AFL level, and they've now got him Visentini as well. There's nothing wrong with the rucks we've added to the list, we've just managed them so poorly you'd suspect sabotage.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Narkle did play some games for us, and provides good squad depth. No doubt has a few things to work on, but I don't see it as a wasted pick.

I do agree that we should have gone Naismith, but then we've also got Lycett, Hayes, Teakle and Vicentini on the books. That would make 5 rucks which isn't ideal and likely played into it.

That sounds like the ruck situation at Port is a coaching problem not a list management one. 4 rucks on the list.

 

[Poo Eckert]

For all the crap he cops for being a crab, Matt Crouch feeding the ball out to our mids would not have been the worst idea in the world. He recorded 12 clearances against us in the last Showdown.

We clearly have an issue winning the ball at stoppages in pressure games and we have had the problem of honeypotting at stoppages for as long as I can remember.

Hence why I threw out there get rid of Ollie and bring in Crouch for cheap. Could net us a second and cost us nothing to get Crouch, output same or better

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Rucci's Monday Review: Reflect, Restock, React

Port Adelaide's AFL campaign in 2023 has fallen short of internal expectations. The lessons from a tough finish to a promising season serve for the continuing chase of greatness.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Another Rucci masterpiece.
Well no one expected us to win the Premiership so a wonderful year.
"Opportunity missed but not wasted"

How can they peddle this absolute tripe.

The worst part about this tripe is that it uses 2022's utter failure as something to paint 2023 as an improvement. That we're on the rise.

Completely ignoring that 2023 is still a downward trajectory from 2020 and 2021 (which much the same playing list).

 

[FutureShock]

We were pretty damn close to a GF to be fair.

I guess "pretty damn close" twice in 11 years is good enough for this feeble excuse for the PAFC these days.

 

[Chrizzt]

Blaming the list manager for our defensive issues is harsh when we had the best defence in 2020 and have added Aliir since then. We've had Pasini on the list for half a decade and he never gets a run. We traded away Howard.

Blaming the list manager for the ruck deficiencies is insane because Hinkley has flat out refused to back any developing ruck in apart from the one who can't play at all, and is happy to grind an average ruckman in Lycett into dust despite him stinking up the field every time he plays.

The list managers got him Hayes, who is the perfect age to take over and won a SANFL B&F before playing generally well at AFL level, and they've now got him Visentini as well. There's nothing wrong with the rucks we've added to the list, we've just managed them so poorly you'd suspect sabotage.

I don't quite agree (although don't think there has been any major errors in terms of list management)

KPDs:
Jonas 32y 8mo
McKenzie 31y 5 mo
Clurey 29y 5mo
Aliir 29y
Pasini 22y 7mo
Marshall 19y 5mo
McCallum 19y

This year we have aimed to play 3 of these KPDs in a game. Assuming this was the plan from the start, this gave us the redundancy of one ready made KPD to step in due to injury/suspension/form. Given the age and injury history of the first choice 4, this was probably stretching the bounds of appropriate risk mitigation. Especially when the age gap between the first choice 4 and the rest is 6 and a half years, as well as zero AFL games experience. In fact, coming in to this season the most experienced of the 3 was Pasini, and he'd only played 14 SANFL games.

This proved to be the case as Clurey went down LTI mid year, leaving us with no AFL-ready backup. Maybe you can argue that the coaches should have tried to blood one of the young 3 in the second half of the year when Jonas and McKenzie went down, but none of them were really putting their hand up at SANFL level, either.

 

[Mutha F]

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

Kicking coach? I would hope the new coach actually thinks it important enough to have one

 

[Mutha F]

We were pretty damn close to a GF to be fair.

 

[Poo Eckert]

There are plenty of people who use Dimma and Bomber process of giving them time and changing support around them as process for Ken. Ummmm

 

[TeeKray]

Can we not let the club or the media get away with this 'but their backline and ruck!' thing when:

1) Said backline and ruck were good enough to go 16-7 in the home and away season including convincing wins against both of the teams that flogged us in the finals.
2) The area that let us down the most in the finals was in fact our midfield, the supposed great strength of the team.
3) The coach was on record as saying this is the best list he has ever had, which as far as I know includes the defence and ruck lines.
4) No team in the league has a perfect team of stars and getting the sum of the parts to perform better as a whole is literally the entire job of the coach otherwise you might as well just tell them to go out and play.

 

[The Hobo]

Wasn't Ladhams not playing due to being injured?
Broke his ankle from memory.

Not sure why he didn't play in the finals, but he wasn't always selected this season when fit.

 

[The Hobo]

Blaming the list manager for our defensive issues is harsh when we had the best defence in 2020 and have added Aliir since then. We've had Pasini on the list for half a decade and he never gets a run. We traded away Howard.

Blaming the list manager for the ruck deficiencies is insane because Hinkley has flat out refused to back any developing ruck in apart from the one who can't play at all, and is happy to grind an average ruckman in Lycett into dust despite him stinking up the field every time he plays.

The list managers got him Hayes, who is the perfect age to take over and won a SANFL B&F before playing generally well at AFL level, and they've now got him Visentini as well. There's nothing wrong with the rucks we've added to the list, we've just managed them so poorly you'd suspect sabotage.

2020 was 3 seasons ago - Jonas and McKenzie are not what they were back then and Clurey didn't play a game this season (and isn't who he was either)

If you can't see the glaring issue in our defence, then you need to take another look. The backups are Pasini coming off an ACL, who's been horrendous by all accounts, and two first year players that are nowhere near ready. He had to play McKenzie injured on numerous occasions.

He played Visentini who was starting to look half decent before he then got injured. Hayes has looked ok as well, but I don't think he's the saviour that you're making him out to be. Teakle is a long term project at best and he's been given opportunities as well. Reality is that none of them (bar Visentini) are good enough.

We're not winning a flag with an undersized key back on one leg and an old workhorse ruckman who's 2 years overdue for retirement. The backups are not any better.

 

[davesnothere]

Rucci's Monday Review: Reflect, Restock, React

Port Adelaide's AFL campaign in 2023 has fallen short of internal expectations. The lessons from a tough finish to a promising season serve for the continuing chase of greatness.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Another Rucci masterpiece.
Well no one expected us to win the Premiership so a wonderful year.
"Opportunity missed but not wasted"

How can they peddle this absolute tripe.

The last time I read a Rucci article it was in the Advertiser and the last time I read a copy of the Advertiser was 2004.

I've missed nothing.