What is carltons point of winning ?

[baconb]

Hey guys I am a new member - just joined today been away for the last few months and recently found the site.

I know this post has probably already been made but I would appreciate the opinions of the members here.

After listening to the Monday night talking football show it was said if Carlton do not win another game this year due to their last place finish last year, they will gain the 1st, 4th and 20th pick in this years draft... Now obviously for the players losing isn't good and never is especially for the younger players in the team but for the sake of winning one or a few more games and risking losing these picks what would be more detrimental ???

I was also wondering if they do win over 5 games, what picks will they be getting???

Thanks alot and nice to be here!

 

[Thrawn]

Welcome to BF!

Want the light barrage or the heavy one from me?

 

[Inferno]

Is this a serious question or a joke?

 

[Books]

The question is hypothetical because you can bet your bottom dollar they wont win another game.

If they accidentally did win one more and the ladder stayed as is then the Blues picks would be 3 and 21, assuming both Richmond and Melbourne get a priority pick (numbers 17 & 18).

 

[Ron]

I ask my self the same question.
Whats the point in ruining their little run of spoons, keep it going i say.

 

[Jabso]

To give false hope to the deluded masses.

 

[becky]

Carlton haven't see the point in winning for about 5 years now. Why would this year be any different.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

A coach coaching for his future

Players either playing for their future or for pride.

Carlton should be able to win another game, they have 8 left.

Reality is they will tank something shocking and then deny it, same as Collingwood did in 05' and Freo did in 99'.

 

[Thrawn]

Tanking is a destructive influence and embraces a losing mentality. No club has ever won a premiership tanking, and they never will. It's not draft position that is important (regardless of how many we win will have a pick in the top 10 anyway), it's what kind of player you pick with what you have at hand, how you develop them and how their mindset is.

Fill up your list with all top 10 draft picks if you wish, but if it doesn't work, are you still going to be tanking? Eventually it will set in place a mentality that the club may never recover from. There's no point having all these high draft picks if you can't develop them properly, or if they have zero confidence in their ability and of their team mates. Once you stop working as a team, and that ambition and confidence is gone, it spreads to everyone.

You don't need to lie down low for years and years on end - maybe one or two at the best, but take a look at the good teams playing at the moment. Did they spend years and years wallowing in the bottom four? No. The main difference is three things:

a) Development
b) Senior support
c) Confidence in oneself and one other

You can add d) for coach if you wish. Or gameplan. Whatever. Either way, if you don't have those three things with a young group, it doesn't matter how much talent they have. You will fail.

 

[Thrawn]

Collingwood did in 05'

In that year they had a massive injury list pretty much all season. You'd might as well try kids and see where they are at, but you still need to support them with older bodies so they don't prematurely lose their faith in themselves and burn out (ie. Livingston).

And besides, there is a difference between trying out your young kids and intentionally losing games.

 

[gadj1976]

our selections would indicate we are not going to win. I'm certainly not going to pick us again this year and apart from an upset here and there, i won't be too wrong.

 

[baconb]

I was very serious, I don't think we are much chance of winning another game this year and if we do is the cost of winning and losing draft picks too much? clearly this happens ever year with teams and hopefully we won't be like St Kilda and take draft picks for years and do nothing, go the blues!

 

[Blue Dawn]

Carlton haven't see the point in winning for about 5 years now. Why would this year be any different.

Haven't had too many problems doing your mob in recent years beck.

On topic, getting a much-needed A grade young ruckman like Kruezer is certainly a disincentive to winning any more games this year there's no doubt about that.

 

[Catsace]

St.Kilda have yet to cash in on their #1 and priority selections of the early '00's....although really in 2004 and 2005 they reached a preliminary final and should have probably made a GrandFinal, given a home preliminary in 2005. Carlton has yet to make any inroads on the back of their selections, and in many instances are still blaming the sanctions that cost them their selections in 2002/2003.

Geelong though has never tanked, and have coughed along in a middling position basically save 2004/5 in the last 10 years. Despite this, we have picked some excellent players, namely in the 1999 and 2001 drafts, that make up half of our current side. I posted those selections in another thread, namely 'Who would wish to be #1 pick' but it goes to show that smart drafting is a much better bet than merely tanking. Losing simply develops a losing culture, and an easy excuse for failure.

 

[Catsace]

Re: Would you really want to go number one in the draft...?
I think stats reveal that Geelong is the only side to not go 'Bottom 4' in the last 20 years or so...although 2003 was a close run thing in a poor year for the Cats. We've never had a priority pick..ever. But i defer to two drafts in particular that have furnished roughly half of Geelong's current side on the park.

1999:- # 8 Joel Corey
#31 Paul Chapman
#38 Cameron Ling
#47 Corey Enright

Plus the trade gain of getting Cam Mooney in a complicated deal involving Leigh Colbert.

2001:- # 8 Jimmy Bartel
#17 James Kelly
#24 Steve Johnson
#40 Gary Ablett Jr

We also have Charlie Gardiner and Henry Playfair in that draft, along with the consistent but injured David Johnson also with pick 81.

The upshot is, you simply don't need good picks to make a good side, you have to draft smart, and loom at what you need. There's 9 players out of our list right there in these two drafts, and likely all in the best 12 in the team. Fantastic recruiting there, Catters!!

That's the post, showing who Geelong got in those two drafts, after finishing about 10-11th in those two years. Not bad, eh!

 

[blues4flag]

Losing 11 games straight will have a horrid affect on our players mentality. If the club goes in the break with a few wins then that'll give the boys some confidence - the light at the end of tunnel etc. Which will hopefully translate into a positive preseason and a happy playing list.

However, if we keep losing, the risks of disgruntled players wanting to go to greener pastures will be at an all time high. After five years down the bottom, I'd assume some players have had enough, especially after 3 years of similar, bottom finishes. That's why winning some games, getting some confidence into the place is vital.

That said, every round that passes, the benefits of losing become greater. If it's round 20, a single win will hardly do anything for the players' mentality, so why not take the losses and go in with picks 1, 3 and 20? ATM, tanking's not an option, but every passing week it becomes more tempting.

 

[Thrawn]

but it goes to show that smart drafting is a much better bet than merely tanking. Losing simply develops a losing culture, and an easy excuse for failure.

We're on the same wavelength here, my friend.

 

[windyhill]

carlton grow an extra leg when they see a Red and Black jumper, would not be suprised to see them roll us again.