What should be the penalty for tanking?

[Son of Skeletor]

The team who is proven guilty of tanking?

How do you prove it? At a conservative estimate, half-a-dozen sides have probably tanked/list-managed in order to gain an advantage in the draft- the AFL barely bothered to investigate at all.

It's extremely hard to prove, and AFL loses face if it is proven that any team has tanked, given that they constantly refused to acknowledge that it was even a possibility. Short of a flat-out, unambiguous confession, it won't happen - it's not in the AFL's best interests.

 

[Balony_pony16]

How? What games could we have won in that season that we didn't apart from the Richmond game?

At least having a crack at winning creates a winning culture

 

[Son of Skeletor]

This mentality is really blowing my mind. StKilda have played in GF's. Hawthorn and Collingwood have won flags and are challenging. Unless you've got your head in the sand or a stuck in propagandist beat up, every one of these clubs has tanked to the same potential as Carlton. Why the hell is Carlton being automatically lumped with Melbourne's systematic tanking and these clubs not?

Because some people have the memory of a goldfish!

Tanking has been an issue since the AFL implemented their poorly-thought-out system back in '99- anyone who claims otherwise is blissfully ignorant, oblivious or in denial.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

At least having a crack at winning creates a winning culture

Didn't hurt us in '05! Ditto Hawthorn in that year- within 5 years we'd each won a premiership.

It's too easy to just take a cheap shot at Melbourne.

 

[Bluelegs]

At least having a crack at winning creates a winning culture

Which player wasn't trying to win every game? What is a winning culture? What is a losing culture?

 

[IanW]

Which player wasn't trying to win every game? What is a winning culture? What is a losing culture?

A winning culture is what Mark neeld is trying to build at Melbourne.

The next two weeks will have a lot to say as to whether he manages it - if you want to avoid the spoon, they are both eight-point games.

On the other hand, losing both of them may well deliver Viney Jr for a second round pick.

 

[Monkey King]

He plays for the side - and is lucky to get a game - who is the only side in the competition who actually threw a match

LOL. Not sure how anyone, especially a Dees supporter, could make this comment with a straight face. Melbourne it seems are the only club who systematically tanked over an entire season and you have a couple of people admit to that now. Brain Waldron admitted on radio StKilda tanked for better picks. Terry Wallace has admitted he was compromised and did nothing to win a game. Don Scott instructed Ken Judge to tank and while Judge didn't do it, we all know the priority picks his replacement racked up for the club. Worsfold and Ratten admit to developing players once finals were shot. Carlton have had Libba's vibe and Fev saying no one tanked but the players knew winning wasn't in the teams interest. Collingwood has never had an official admit to anything, but most supporters will happily admit they tanked for Pendles and Daisy.

So come on Rod, how does your statement make any sense in light of this? I reckon you're looking for the easiest most picked on scape goat in AFL to deflect from the how you feel about your club. Cop out!

 

[Bluelegs]

A winning culture is what Mark neeld is trying to build at Melbourne.

The next two weeks will have a lot to say as to whether he manages it - if you want to avoid the spoon, they are both eight-point games.

On the other hand, losing both of them may well deliver Viney Jr for a second round pick.

You still haven't explained what a winning/losing culture is. Is it simply confidence or self-respect?

 

[IanW]

You still haven't explained what a winning/losing culture is. Is it simply confidence or self-respect?

I'd say its self-respect, because confidence comes and goes.

But, again, tanking vs list management is very very grey. At the end of the day, the league cant prove it, and the fans cant prove it ... but the players know if it happened.

 

[Zeke]

There is already a penalty for prolonged and systematic tanking.

A losing culture, drop off in membership, stunted development and ongoing mediocrity.

Pretty fair.

 

[Bluelegs]

I'd say its self-respect, because confidence comes and goes.

But, again, tanking vs list management is very very grey. At the end of the day, the league cant prove it, and the fans cant prove it ... but the players know if it happened.

You're right. But I'm just of the belief that there is far more to Melbourne's current situation than a 'losing culture'

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

At least having a crack at winning...

systematically tanked over an entire season

Point out the games we should've won apart from Round 18 in '09.

You can't, can you?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

There is already a penalty for prolonged and systematic tanking.

A losing culture, drop off in membership, stunted development and ongoing mediocrity.

No drop-off in membership for Collingwood in 2005 when they tanked. No drop-off in development, nor "ongoing mediocrity" there. When your club did it.

Aside from the fact that we've set six consecutive club record membership tallies over the last six years, and our home average crowds at the MCG this year are up by 7,500.

So wrong on all counts there.

 

[IanW]

No drop-off in membership for Collingwood in 2005 when they tanked.

Aside from the fact that we've set six consecutive club record membership tallies over the last six years, and our home average crowds at the MCG this year are up by 7,500.

So wrong on two counts there.

And the issue of stunted development and ongoing mediocrity ?

 

[Zeke]

No drop-off in membership for Collingwood in 2005 when they tanked.

Aside from the fact that we've set six consecutive club record membership tallies over the last six years, and our home average crowds at the MCG this year are up by 7,500.

So wrong on two counts there.

Congratulation on your membership figures.

Commiserations on your shithouse football team.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Correction on my previous post - you were wrong in every way. Given that Collingwood finished 5th in 2006, the year after you tanked.

 

[Monkey King]

Point out the games we should've won apart from Round 18 in '09.

It may seem ironical, but you can still tank a game you were little chance of winning. Take this round for example, if you're busting your balls and trying desperately to win, upsets can happen.

As for my comment, I said "Melbourne it seems are the only club who systematically tanked over an entire season". And given the comments from Brock, Paul Gardner and Bailey, I'm not sure why you're challenging the validity of the statement. Any reason?

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Stripping first round draft picks in future drafts similar to what happened to Carlton

 

[IanW]

Part of the tragedy of tanking is Melbourne, lacking Clark, could try their guts out to win, and honestly lose the next three weeks.

This would probably win them a spoon, and thus Jack Viney with a second round pick, plus their two firsts at one and two, probably for Whitfield and Grundy.

Unjust accusations of tanking against Gold Coast and GWS in 2012 would thus fly for the next couple of years.

This scenario is possible - bookies have Melbourne at about five to two on against Melbourne, and if they lose that and then St Kilda then the odds against GWS is going to be close to even money.

 

[Superstar swan]

what would be the incentive for a witness to testify? yes i was part of a football department that deliberately lost games, now can someone please hire me?

exactly , everyone would have a fair idea if a team was tanking.. but if u accused them......." senior players under an injury cloud"... " we missed a few shots ".. " we were flat" it would be a very hard to case to prove"......... but if a team was somehow found to be tanking they should be banned from the ypcoming draft......... a draft lottery is the only solution

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I'm not sure why you're challenging the validity of the statement.

Because nobody's ever identified any game outside of Round 18 that year which we somehow should've won and didn't?

bookies have Melbourne at about five to two on against Melbourne

They're being far too generous.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

A winning culture is what Mark neeld is trying to build at Melbourne.

The next two weeks will have a lot to say as to whether he manages it - if you want to avoid the spoon, they are both eight-point games.

On the other hand, losing both of them may well deliver Viney Jr for a second round pick.

anyone else lol at this?

 

[SpeciousArgument]

It may seem ironical, but you can still tank a game you were little chance of winning. Take this round for example, if you're busting your balls and trying desperately to win, upsets can happen.

As for my comment, I said "Melbourne it seems are the only club who systematically tanked over an entire season". And given the comments from Brock, Paul Gardner and Bailey, I'm not sure why you're challenging the validity of the statement. Any reason?

Thats a ridiculous statement

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Completely and utterly ridiculous, yeah. Made-up fiction is what it is.

anyone else lol at this?

Hang on a second... dude, you barrack for Adelaide

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Completely and utterly ridiculous, yeah. Made-up fiction is what it is.



Hang on a second... dude, you barrack for Adelaide

My bestie is a Melb supporter and my father played for the leggies many years ago so i do feel you pain. i still lold