What should be the penalty for tanking?

[Monkey King]

I know the article says we tanked. But I don't understand the strategy used for us to tank. We get the lead with the playing structure we have and Wallace tanks by "doing nothing" and staying with the same structure. He's that bad of a coach that he can't even tank properly lol.

You sound like the Collingwood ostrich who said "ah we just had a shit team".

The football field is not static. Winning teams have players moving all over the ground to keep the balance of the game in their favour. If Wallace saw the lead slip away and do nothing to redress the balance then he certainly qualifies as having tanked. That he says he felt compromised speaks volumes.

I guess for most it's much easier to point a finger than look in the mirror.

 

[Such is life Ben]

I dont want to appear defensive about my club, but I just dont understand when we supposedly tanked. 2010 we had a terrible run with injuries and quite frankly were awful pretty much throughout. Cant remember any specific "odd" moves etc. Yes we sent a couple of player in for surgery early, but teams have done and do that every year when they cant make the finals. If thats the case, then every year we are going to have teams guilty of tanking. And what, all this alleged tanking was done for a pick 26? Even without my eagles coloured glasses I just cant believe that.

 

[Masto]

This thread is absurd. How will anyone ever prove tanking? The former Melbourne coach already admitted he played to gain premium draft picks ie losing. HE ADMITTED TO LOSING FOR DRAFT PICKS. If the AFL do not consider self-incrimination as proof then there is nothing you could ever find that will trump it.

 

[Blackas87]

This thread is absurd. How will anyone ever prove tanking? The former Melbourne coach already admitted he played to gain premium draft picks ie losing. HE ADMITTED TO LOSING FOR DRAFT PICKS. If the AFL do not consider self-incrimination as proof then there is nothing you could ever find that will trump it.

Did he say the words losing for draft picks?

 

[Higgs Boson]

Frankly, I'll be pissed if the AFL pony up some trumped up charge and throw the book at Melbourne just because Demetriou is embarrassed at completely ignoring the problem until metaphorically slapped in the face with it.

Oh, and thanks Brock. Way to kick the club mate. No, really. Arsehat.

 

[Monkey King]

I dont want to appear defensive about my club ...

And yet that's exactly how you appear. I can make the same arguments for Carlton that you've made for your club, but that's not going to stop people going on about tanking because ultimately the Blues got a lot of early draft picks.

 

[gPhonque]

It's this kind of thinking that's seen you unable to win a final in 2891 days, and unable to beat the Demons in three years of trying, even when we're struggling as much as we are now. 1141 days and counting there.

That's what I call funny. Equally so when an Essendon fan attempts to fake-laugh about a player who was BOG against their team the last time we played. Who wins more contested ball in an average week than the vast majority of his team ever does.

The team of Dyson Heppell, Leroy Jetta, Alwyn Davey, Angus Monfries...

Yeah, we used our #1 draft pick on Watts, and it was exactly the right choice. Beat your captain in the last quarter of that game too of course.

Wow, somebody's a bit touchy.

For the record, I (unlike most people around here) actually think Watts will be a fine player.

Doesn't make the other guy's comment any less funny though.

And I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Essendon?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

For the record, I (unlike most people around here) actually think Watts will be a fine player.

Doesn't make the other guy's comment any less funny though.

Fairy nuff GP - classy response and worthy of the rep I just gave it

And I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Essendon?

Depends on what reportage should come to light regarding 2006.

Wow, somebody's a bit touchy.

Not especially, but I'm a bear when it comes to threads like these, and my claws are sharp

 

[Pat_Footy]

Frankly, I'll be pissed if the AFL pony up some trumped up charge and throw the book at Melbourne just because Demetriou is embarrassed at completely ignoring the problem until metaphorically slapped in the face with it.

Oh, and thanks Brock. Way to kick the club mate. No, really. Arsehat.

Your club did the crime. Wear it with pride.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

West Coast Eagles 2007 board.

And of course, when you tank, you call it something else instead

Experimentation not tanking: Worsfold

West Coast coach John Worsfold has defended the right of clubs to experiment with their players in different positions once their chances of making the finals are over, dismissing suggestions that it is tanking.

Worsfold said his club, which recruited impressive forward Jack Darling with its own priority draft pick (No.26 overall) last year, had experimented with players' positions.

The Eagles won just four games last year, collecting their first ever wooden spoon.

"We didn't complain, we didn't whinge about the fact we weren't getting pick one last year. We dealt with what we had in front of us."

http://www.afl.com.au/newsviews/dev...isplay/tabid/13144/newsid/120121/default.aspx

 

[Pat_Footy]

West Coast Eagles 2007 board.

And of course, when you tank, you call it something else instead

Wow, what a way to take what he said out of context. He was defending Melbourne against tanking allegations. I remember listening to that press conference. He was saying that players like Scott Selwood /Brad Ebert were playing midfield before they were ready. This thread belongs to Melbourne and Carlton unfortunately.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Wow, what a way to take what he said out of context.

Yeah, nah.

Putting players in different positions because you're not concerned about winning matches, putting players in for early surgery when you wouldn't have otherwise, playing kids in prominent positions before they're ready... that's called tanking.

Yes, even when your club does it

This thread belongs to Melbourne, Carlton, Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood, Hawthorn, St Kilda and Fremantle.

Edited for truth

How to tank in 10 easy steps
July 21, 2009

Everyone agrees players don't throw games. But that doesn't mean there aren't many ways for coaches eyeing priority picks to minimise their chances of winning.

Here is the Herald Sun's how-to guide to tanking.

1. PLAY YOUR STARS OUT OF POSITION

When you are a bottom-four side and your coach is planning for the future, no one notices positional changes in the name of experimentation.

In the "Hasleby Game" of 1999, where Fremantle won a priority pick by coughing up a halftime lead to Geelong, even the Freo players were suspicious.

The Cats were down by nine points at halftime but Fremantle bled the last 11 goals, and Dockers midfielder Brodie Holland smelled a rat.

"I do remember sitting with (teammate) Jess Sinclair and talking about how it's the first time he's played back pocket and the first time I've played on the half-back flank," Holland later said. "There were a few funny moves. There's definitely been a few chats amongst the older boys, because we were curious."

2. PLAY ALL YOUR KIDS

It is now the norm rather than the exception -- force-feed your up-and-coming kids with games late in the year.

When the Pies lost 10 of the last 11 games of 2005 to secure Scott Pendlebury and Dale Thomas, they gave games to anyone. Promising kids such as Heath Shaw, Harry O'Brien and Sean Rusling were rewarded.

But many other debutants, including Ben Davies, Chris Egan, David Fanning, Brent Hall, and Adam Iacobucci, sank quickly from sight.

3. DON'T TAG THE OPPOSITION'S STAR

In the infamous Carlton-Melbourne Round 22 clash of 2007, silky Demons onballer Travis Johnstone was allowed to run rampant, gathering 42 possessions loose across half-back. It was perhaps the only time that season he was not assigned the opposition's best tagger.

Heath Scotland earned three Brownlow votes for his 31 possessions a fortnight earlier in Round 20, but the Demons didn't tag him that day either.

In the same round, Essendon's Andrew Lovett cut Carlton to shreds. Yet a Carlton official has twice recounted the story that when a coaching member asked "Who is on Lovett?", the reply was something like, "Let's not worry about picking up Lovett".

4. PUT PLAYERS IN FOR SURGERY

Tony Liberatore, who was banished from Carlton for his tanking claims, said defender Bret Thornton was forced into a needless ankle operation late in 2007.

The Blues and Thornton denied that, but many players are now given early surgery. Clubs call it "list management", and we don't blink an eye. But if you are rewarded with a priority pick for a low finish, the pressure is on to manage that list a little harder.

5. DUMP THE 30-PLUS TYPES

It doesn't need explanation any more. Last year Demons Adem Yze and Jeff White played out their careers in the VFL. This year it is Tigers Joel Bowden, Nathan Brown and probably Troy Simmonds when he resumes from injury.

Bowden was in excellent form when dumped, but hasn't been able to get back in the side.

6. GIVE BATTLERS A GO

If you haven't already succeeded by putting the elders out to pasture and introducing raw kids, there is Plan C.

Every list has a host of strugglers desperate for one last chance to prove they deserve another contract. Mostly they are no good, but playing them in prominent or key-position roles helps to death-ride your team.

7. CHANGE TACTICS

In that 1999 Kardinia Park game, a Fremantle team that had flooded heavily all year suddenly played one-on-one football. "A lot of the boys were talking about a few of the moves," Docker Garth Taylor said. "The older players were having a conversation about it."

Boundary rider Richard Osborne noted "how refreshing in this day and age when coaches are just obsessed with flooding the backline, seeing Barry Stoneham one-out in the forward line".

8. LIMIT ROTATIONS

As Terry Wallace said this month, it's not what you do. It's what you don't.

If your players just don't have any petrol in the tank because they haven't had enough rest, it stands to reason they will be overrun.

9. TAKE YOUR MATCH-WINNERS OFF LATE

As Carlton's priority pick went down to the wire in 2007, Brendan Fevola was at several times brought from the field at key stages in games.

Against Collingwood, the Blues were level in time-on of the last term. Then Fevola left the field for more than two minutes with a thigh problem, and Collingwood kicked the last four goals.

The evidence is not damning, but it doesn't hurt.

10. ASK YOUR COACH

In 2003, former Hawthorn coach Ken Judge claimed Hawks board member Don Scott had asked him in 1998 to lose the last five games of the year to help the club's draft prospects.

Scott denied the allegation and threatened legal action. But according to Andrew Demetriou, tanking doesn't exist, so Judge must have simply misheard him.

http://www.news.com.au/how-to-tank-in-10-easy-steps/story-0-1225752922541

 

[Monkey King]

This thread belongs to Melbourne and Carlton unfortunately.

Just another holocaust denier.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Yeah, nah.

Putting players in different positions because you're not concerned about winning matches, putting players in for early surgery when you wouldn't have otherwise, playing kids in prominent positions before they're ready... that's called tanking.

Yes, even when your club does it

Edited for truth

Well, I don't know why you posted that article then because it says the complete opposite. You change your stance depending on your argument.
Putting Scott Selwood into the midfield is not akin to playing a ruckmen as a key defender.

Tanking needs to be clearly defined. What Melbourne did on that day we all remember, was tanking.

 

[Monkey King]

Tanking needs to be clearly defined.

So define it and explain how under such definition this thread belongs to Carlton.

 

[SirJimi05]

I'd probably follow another sport if the AFL imposed any penalty on a team that tanked.

You can't encourage teams to tank on one hand and then penalise them when they do, on the other hand.

AD saying that clubs will be severely punished is simply his way of making sure no club ever comes forward with any info.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'd probably follow another sport if the AFL imposed any penalty on a team that tanked.

You can't encourage teams to tank on one hand and then penalise them when they do, on the other hand.

AD saying that clubs will be severely punished is simply his way of making sure no club ever comes forward with any info.

Absolutely spot on.

Besides, proving tanking is impossible. There is a very fine line between deliberately losing and long term planning.

The AFL have made it even harder now with two expansion clubs on the scene. Now there are more dead rubbbers than ever, and earlier in the season, so the incentive to win deteriorates more quickly for those teams who cant make teh finals.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Agree completely. The only way that tanking could be proven is if a coach admitted to the AFL that he was not trying to win particular games. But that's not going to happen because the AFL will severely punish any coach who made such an admission.

The only way out of this mess is for the AFL to remove any incentive to tank. I doubt this will happen under the current administration.

I dont think not trying to win is enough, i think it has to be actively coaching against winning, ie telling players to miss shots/take less shots etc. i could forgive port/melb/GWS/GCS not going out to win and treating the games like nab cup games

 

[ZAAHAARAKIS!!!!!]

Working on the assumption that melbourne get it done vs GC tomorrow, is it too early to say that next week the suns vs giants game will basically be 'the whitfield cup'
realistically it's probably not worth winning that game for either team

 

[JeffDunne]

There is a very fine line between deliberately losing and long term planning.

There is if you have the IQ of a wombat.

For the rest of us, it's a line as wide as the grand canyon.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

There is if you have the IQ of a wombat.

For the rest of us, it's a line as wide as the grand canyon.

In the legal sense of the word it its impossible to prove. Nothing will come of it.

Your pathetic personal attacks are are getting pretty tiresome. Go and kick the cat or something if you are having problems with your life.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

This mentality is really blowing my mind. StKilda have played in GF's. Hawthorn and Collingwood have won flags and are challenging. Unless you've got your head in the sand or a stuck in propagandist beat up, every one of these clubs has tanked to the same potential as Carlton. Why the hell is Carlton being automatically lumped with Melbourne's systematic tanking and these clubs not?

IMO you guys are worse because you also cheated the salary cap

 

[JeffDunne]

In the legal sense of the word it its impossible to prove. Nothing will come of it.

Actually it wouldn't be that hard at all. Near on impossible though if you don't actually look for evidence.

What most brain dead supporters don't comprehend is there's a fundamental difference between being ambivalent about results and wanting to lose. Every club that's been accused of tanking clearly has been ambivalent about results - acting exactly as they would if there were no draft picks on offer. In not one of the examples raised (other than Judge) has anyone been fingered as instructing a coach to throw matches - including this latest episode with McLean. Unless he can point to someone as instructing coaches/players to lose, then it's all hearsay and pissing into the wind.

I wouldn't expect you to understand Timmid.

Your pathetic personal attacks are are getting pretty tiresome. Go and kick the cat or something if you are having problems with your life.

Stop posting drivel and I'll stop calling out as drivel.

Tissue?

 

[Auger Martel]

Stripping of high draft picks for the season and the next one with a fine to boot. Similar in the manner of the Carlton salary cap breach penalties although with a lesser fine.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Theres no evidence to be found because it doesnt exist. When Brock McLean your star witness you really are up against it.

Poor old JD, cant help but abuse me despite fundamentally agreeing with me. To stubborn to admit it though.