What would a Dutton Liberal leadership mean for the Liberals and the country?

[Cap]

I'm not aware of any specific group inside the party membership who strongly oppose the policy.

Nor am I aware of any group so facile as the one you describe in your first sentence.

Unless the average age has changed since i left the party, I reckon I'm pretty spot on.

you'll also find that the opposing a view won't get far. I recall seeing the passing of a motion highly critical of Abbott only to hear the chair recieve a call from State Council to have it revoked.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is it fair to say that they are up against it fund-raising wise v the ALP?

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Is it fair to say that they are up against it fund-raising wise v the ALP?

With the political donation disclosure arrangements as they are we’ll never really know.

 

[The Punter]

Is it fair to say that they are up against it fund-raising wise v the ALP?

In Victoria, absolutely. The changes to the fundraising rules for Victorian elections passed in 2018 limit donations per person (or entity) to around $4500 (this amount changes each year with the annual change to the penalty unit) per term (four years), except for one entity nominated by each party where funds can be unlimited.

The ALP have the trade union movement. At the time of the enacting of the laws, the Liberal Party were suing their one entity.

Mr Albanese is reportedly considering similar laws for federal elections, which would enact into law the advantage being the political wing of an organisation gives you.

As I have said before, I support unlimited donations on the two provisos:

• all donations (of any cash amount) are reported
• only natural persons can make donations

 

[Brian Oblivion]

In Victoria, absolutely. The changes to the fundraising rules for Victorian elections passed in 2018 limit donations per person (or entity) to around $4500 (this amount changes each year with the annual change to the penalty unit) per term (four years), except for one entity nominated by each party where funds can be unlimited.

The ALP have the trade union movement. At the time of the enacting of the laws, the Liberal Party were suing their one entity.

Mr Albanese is reportedly considering similar laws for federal elections, which would enact into law the advantage being the political wing of an organisation gives you.

As I have said before, I support unlimited donations on the two provisos:

• all donations (of any cash amount) are reported
• only natural persons can make donations

So you support Clive Palmer’s shenanigans ?

 

[The Punter]

So you support Clive Palmer’s shenanigans ?

C'mon, you're going to have to be more specific.

I don't have a problem with his spending of money, as long as we know he's the one spending his money.

But we all know from the 2022 election a much more effective way of spending your money on elections:

Palmer: spend money everywhere, get a small percentage of the vote everywhere, only get one person elected
Holmes-a-Court: spend money on identified target seats, get a significant percentage of the vote in only those seats, get seven people elected

 

[Saint]

I'm not aware of any specific group inside the party membership who strongly oppose the policy.

Nor am I aware of any group so facile as the one you describe in your first sentence.

I think the way the party is mirroring the US conservatives, everyone outside the Liberal Party assumes (generalises) they're the same extreme type of boomer as the US Trump supporters who are particularly ill-informed because of social media.

Many of us see it in our parents' social media behaviour (me included).

I'm still yet to hear a Federal MP stand up and say they want a nuclear plant in their electorate. So while it might be popular in the party room, all the MPs know it's not popular in the electorate. It'll be an easy scare campaign for the ALP to run in marginal outer-suburban seats or somewhere like Monash (Gippsland and Latrobe as well) to suggest they'll have nuclear fuel and waste being transported through their electorate and through Melbourne. They've all lived under a coal cloud long enough to know they don't want a nuclear cloud.

 

[The Punter]

I think the way the party is mirroring the US conservatives, everyone outside the Liberal Party assumes (generalises) they're the same extreme type of boomer as the US Trump supporters who are particularly ill-informed because of social media.

Many of us see it in our parents' social media behaviour (me included).

I'm still yet to hear a Federal MP stand up and say they want a nuclear plant in their electorate. So while it might be popular in the party room, all the MPs know it's not popular in the electorate. It'll be an easy scare campaign for the ALP to run in marginal outer-suburban seats or somewhere like Monash (Gippsland and Latrobe as well) to suggest they'll have nuclear fuel and waste being transported through their electorate and through Melbourne. They've all lived under a coal cloud long enough to know they don't want a nuclear cloud.

The likely scare campaign is why the Redbridge twins are both calling it the "longest political suicide note in history".

 

[Saint]

Surprise, in 2022, the Coalition 4 conservation (Liberals Climate lobby group) was taken over by Trevor St Baker (Coal magnate) who also invested in an SMR Nuclear company. Then injected money into the lobby group and now they're hell-bent on nuclear.

Energy billionaire Trevor St Baker goes nuclear

Former NSW treasurer Matt Kean brought forward his resignation from the Coalition for Conservation over the pro-nuclear involvement of the Rich Lister.

www.afr.com

"Meanwhile, St Baker said C4C was about “better informing members of parliament” about energy alternatives, nuclear among them. He’s paid for “some airfares” for the Coalition MPs as far back as COP27, “who came back with a different view about what the rest of the world was doing”.

But he is also the part-owner of SMR Nuclear Technology, a company pushing for the use and development of small modular reactors. The timing of his arrival at the charity is exquisite."

 

[Saint]

The likely scare campaign is why the Redbridge twins are both calling it the "longest political suicide note in history".

So do the rank and file not care about the fact that it's politically fraught? Are they so convinced that they're right on nuclear and everyone else is wrong?

 

[Saint]

Because the Liberal Party remains the only party of values in the Australian polity. The ALP is, and always has been a party of interests, and so is the National Party. Other parties pop up as a response to grievance or policy failure.

I think the Greens are the true party of values. I think the Libs are as influenced by interest groups as any, possibly more. Many within the Libs, particularly donors, are there to make money from lobbying.

No groups putting money into the Greens are making profits off the back of Greens policies.

 

[QuietB]

Surprise, in 2022, the Coalition 4 conservation (Liberals Climate lobby group) was taken over by Trevor St Baker (Coal magnate) who also invested in an SMR Nuclear company. Then injected money into the lobby group and now they're hell-bent on nuclear.

Energy billionaire Trevor St Baker goes nuclear

Former NSW treasurer Matt Kean brought forward his resignation from the Coalition for Conservation over the pro-nuclear involvement of the Rich Lister.

www.afr.com

"Meanwhile, St Baker said C4C was about “better informing members of parliament” about energy alternatives, nuclear among them. He’s paid for “some airfares” for the Coalition MPs as far back as COP27, “who came back with a different view about what the rest of the world was doing”.

But he is also the part-owner of SMR Nuclear Technology, a company pushing for the use and development of small modular reactors. The timing of his arrival at the charity is exquisite."

You never have to look to far to determine the source of Liberal Party policy

So what exactly is this "party of values" you speak of The Punter

 

[Cap]

Is it fair to say that they are up against it fund-raising wise v the ALP?

South Australia was very reliant on donations from sitting members.

As I have said before, I support unlimited donations on the two provisos:

• all donations (of any cash amount) are reported
• only natural persons can make donations

I am more a fan of banning all donations and any funding comes from the Govt and is capped.

No lobbies, not political adverts by anyone else than the parties and they must be policy related.

Since you asked:

https://vic.liberal.org.au/about/state-platform

I'm not about to engage in a blow by blow back and forth about how the party is living up to these or not. Go crazy, but I won't be engaging in that way.



I think I've also posted about this before, but I think the mere existence of the Liberal Party and it's electoral success over it's 80 year history is nearly always underestimated. It took the agreement to form into one group hundreds of disparate groups, done during a World War, for the Liberal Party to even exist. The rising of another non-Labor right-of-centre party of government in the Australian experience is the very epitome of easier said than done. After being a party member for nearly 27 years, my view remains that for many reason, the party remains worth saving and work to reform it to try and make it an electable right-of-centre alternative remains valuable, even if at the moment it may seem hopeless to some.

Because the Liberal Party remains the only party of values in the Australian polity. The ALP is, and always has been a party of interests, and so is the National Party. Other parties pop up as a response to grievance or policy failure.

IMO the death of the Liberal Party as an electoral force in Australia would doom us to be effectively a one party state. I do not believe I would see another enduring likely alternative in my lifetime. There is no party that better reflects those values in action, either on the values or the action front. That's why I'll spend this Friday night at a party meeting and not watching my beloved Saints get towelled up at the Gabba.

Sorry, what a complete load of garbage.

As an ex Liberal member all the values written in any Liberal Document have 0 to do with the way the party operates. that's why people like me quit.

The LNP is in its current format is just like any other right party you see across the world. The LNP and the centre don't belong in the same sentence

 

[Saint]

You never have to look to far to determine the source of Liberal Party policy

So what exactly is this "party of values" you speak of The Punter

Part of the perception problem for the Libs is that it seems like their MPs are as easily swayed by social media as the members are (perhaps that makes it more representative).

Just takes a few jaunts or whispers in the ear and then all of a sudden, after 9 years of nothing, Nuclear is a great idea, why hadn't anyone thought of it sooner.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Part of the perception problem for the Libs is that it seems like their MPs are as easily swayed by social media as the members are (perhaps that makes it more representative).

Just takes a few jaunts or whispers in the ear and then all of a sudden, after 9 years of nothing, Nuclear is a great idea, why hadn't anyone thought of it sooner.

I would say more swayed by the donors.

 

[nut]

Because the Liberal Party remains the only party of values in the Australian polity. The ALP is, and always has been a party of interests, and so is the National Party. Other parties pop up as a response to grievance or policy failure.

Interesting take.
I see the LNP as the party of self interest.
They use those Party values to benefit their donors and ultimately benefit them selves at the detriment of those that actually hold those values.
To me the LNP is the party of no values now.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Since you asked:

https://vic.liberal.org.au/about/state-platform

I'm not about to engage in a blow by blow back and forth about how the party is living up to these or not. Go crazy, but I won't be engaging in that way.



I think I've also posted about this before, but I think the mere existence of the Liberal Party and it's electoral success over it's 80 year history is nearly always underestimated. It took the agreement to form into one group hundreds of disparate groups, done during a World War, for the Liberal Party to even exist. The rising of another non-Labor right-of-centre party of government in the Australian experience is the very epitome of easier said than done. After being a party member for nearly 27 years, my view remains that for many reason, the party remains worth saving and work to reform it to try and make it an electable right-of-centre alternative remains valuable, even if at the moment it may seem hopeless to some.

Because the Liberal Party remains the only party of values in the Australian polity. The ALP is, and always has been a party of interests, and so is the National Party. Other parties pop up as a response to grievance or policy failure.

IMO the death of the Liberal Party as an electoral force in Australia would doom us to be effectively a one party state. I do not believe I would see another enduring likely alternative in my lifetime. There is no party that better reflects those values in action, either on the values or the action front. That's why I'll spend this Friday night at a party meeting and not watching my beloved Saints get towelled up at the Gabba.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I would say my experience of the bolded is completely different, the LNP has been a party backed by interests over values since my time as a voter (during Howard's time in office).

 

[Brian Oblivion]

C'mon, you're going to have to be more specific.

I don't have a problem with his spending of money, as long as we know he's the one spending his money.

But we all know from the 2022 election a much more effective way of spending your money on elections:

Palmer: spend money everywhere, get a small percentage of the vote everywhere, only get one person elected
Holmes-a-Court: spend money on identified target seats, get a significant percentage of the vote in only those seats, get seven people elected

Palmer’s big spend helped get ScoMo elected in 2018. You’re being a bit cute here mate.

 

[barreness]

The push for Nuclear Power is very popular among the rank and file, card carrying membership of the Liberal Party.

Yeh, It's been positioned in the culture war as right wing(not that that actually means anything)

As climate change becomes undeniable(floods, fires, heatwaves, melting etc) the argument then moves to the 'solution'.
Nuclear vs renewables is the new culture war. Obvs silly because none of them work to go zero carbon without a vast array of other policies

 

[peetoo]

Why compare with Howard when it’s with him the current version started?

 

[Not Important]

In Victoria, absolutely. The changes to the fundraising rules for Victorian elections passed in 2018 limit donations per person (or entity) to around $4500 (this amount changes each year with the annual change to the penalty unit) per term (four years), except for one entity nominated by each party where funds can be unlimited.

The ALP have the trade union movement. At the time of the enacting of the laws, the Liberal Party were suing their one entity.

Mr Albanese is reportedly considering similar laws for federal elections, which would enact into law the advantage being the political wing of an organisation gives you.

As I have said before, I support unlimited donations on the two provisos:

• all donations (of any cash amount) are reported
• only natural persons can make donations

c’mon t.p you must know these requirements are only honoured in the breach. does the ‘cormack foundation’ still exist?

 

[Not Important]

 

[Festerz]

Maiden will drip feed this over coming days to get the clicks on news.com.au until she realises others have got it too at which point she will drop the juiciest bits in one dump. Doubt anyone will GAF.

 

[Rob R]

Maiden will drip feed this over coming days to get the clicks on news.com.au until she realises others have got it too at which point she will drop the juiciest bits in one dump. Doubt anyone will GAF.


View attachment 2020354

Dutton getting rid of a rival or did they find a moderate on the front bench to get rid of. Although Maiden is close to Archer so she would be an odd choice for a hit on a moderate.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GreyWind]

Dutton getting rid of a rival or did they find a moderate on the front bench to get rid of. Although Maiden is close to Archer so she would be an odd choice for a hit on a moderate.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

277 pages, has to be Taylor. Been useless as Shadow Treasurer and we all know he's a dodgy ****er.