Whats in a name? Australian Football v Australian football

[The_Wookie]

Well said on both counts

An interesting side note, the AFL have previously defended the use of the term "AFL" to describe the sport as motivated by not wanting to use "football" so as to avoid antagonising potential new adherents north of the Barassi line.

citation needed. Ive never seen the AFL defend its need to brand anything AFL. Its noteworthy that it promotes the game under AFL Victoria, AFL Tasmania, and PlayAFL as well as the territory branding in non heartleand areas.

But as you've identified, the very act of insisting on the word "football" be used in mainstream media outlets to describe your particularly code is to make a claim of exclusivity.

When was this demand made?

If Australian soccer thinks that's in its best interests than it can knock itself out. But spare us the incessant cries of persecution and paranoid jumping at every imagined slight

This thread is kind of proof that its not just soccer thats paranoid.

 

[NoobPie]

citation needed. Ive never seen the AFL defend its need to brand anything AFL. Its noteworthy that it promotes the game under AFL Victoria, AFL Tasmania, and PlayAFL as well as the territory branding in non heartleand areas.



When was this demand made?



This thread is kind of proof that its not just soccer thats paranoid.

*Split post. Insert strawman, glib comments or requests after each fragment. Rinse and repeat until target gives into to the tedium

 

[The_Wookie]

*Split post. Insert strawman, glib comments or requests after each fragment. Rinse and repeat until target gives into to the tedium

Knowing how to quote posts properly is not an offence.

So no answers to the question then?

 

[RedV3x]

It used titles abandoned by AFL Victoria and AFL Tasmania years ago that I know of.

Has that REALLY hapened though ? citation needed. Where are your links to say the AFL abandoned these titles.

 

[RedV3x]

"pinched"....you mean

Stolen. Even a soccer troll should know that pinch can mean stolen.

 

[RedV3x]

Any intelligent person would know that its not that simple.

My news feeds come to me and there is a website which contains all the news headlines.

 

[The_Wookie]

Has that REALLY hapened though ? citation needed. Where are your links to say the AFL abandoned these titles.

Yes it did really happen. More, you know it did.

id have thought that was fairly obvious - proof is in the name of the state body today.

Football Victoria was renamed to AFL Victoria - https://www.aflvic.com.au/
Football Tasmania was renamed to AFL Tasmania. - https://www.afltas.com.au/

 

[The_Wookie]

My news feeds come to me and there is a website which contains all the news headlines.

not everything I use comes off the news or news websites or id be able to RSS what i do.

 

[RedV3x]

did you and others like you just feel that way because soccer in Australia chose to follow the rest of the planet in its nomenclature.

Well, in the U.S.A. it is the MLS because they know Americans know football as something vastly different.
In Australia, it's the the same but the FFA arrogantly thought they could run roughshod over the incumbent codes.
And F.Y.I. "football" is far from the universal word for the game of soccer.

 

[RedV3x]

not everything I use comes off the news or news websites or id be able to RSS what i do.

"not everything" reads as "almost everything" - a lot, the majority etc
So when do you need to seacrh "Australian Football" ?

 

[The_Wookie]

Well, in the U.S.A. it is the MLS because they know Americans know football as something vastly different.

Good for america i guess.

In Australia, it's the the same but the FFA arrogantly thought they could run roughshod over the incumbent codes.

good lord. No they didnt. they thought they could reach more soccer folks by calling it the same as its known overseas.

And F.Y.I. "football" is far from the universal word for the game of soccer.

no way. It is by far the most used. including in places where its also known as soccer.

 

[RedV3x]

i'd have thought that was fairly obvious - proof is in the name of the state body today.

I'd have thought that soccer trying to monopolise the name "football" was fairly obvious, but no, you want proof.
Well you have to better than just assume that changing names relinquishes the title.
People and organisations are notorious for registering all sorts of things for blocking or money purposes.

 

[The_Wookie]

"not everything" reads as "almost everything" - a lot, the majority etc
So when do you need to seacrh "Australian Football" ?

me personally, I dont have to search for Australian football, i know where the information i need is for most of the stuff I do.
Which is why I ran a search from a completely fresh google account.

 

[The_Wookie]

I'd have thought that soccer trying to monopolise the name "football" was fairly obvious, but no, you want proof.

So you dont have proof then? People on here have been asserting that soccer attempted to monopolise or somehow claim exclusivity over the term football without any evidence beyond a rebrand by the governind body.

Well you have to better than just assume that changing names relinquishes the title.

Id assume that when the body in question actively changes its name and branding and refers to itself as such for nearly a decade that its no longer using that particular title. Especially if someone else is actively using it without the objection of the former holder of said title.

People and organisations are notorious for registering all sorts of things for blocking or money purposes.

people are also somewhat notorious for launching into whataboutism when they cant prove anything.

 

[RedV3x]

I dont have to search for Australian football, i know where the information i need is for most of the stuff I do. Which is why I ran a search from a completely fresh google account.

From time to time, for various reasons, I do search for variations of Australian Football as in Australian Football - participation, juniors, women, new clubs etc.
And I have found that if I don't use "Australian Rules Football" or "-soccer" i get a lot of soccer crap.
Internet searches will put the highest bidders first that is why it is important to put specific information as criteria.

 

[RedV3x]

people are also somewhat notorious for launching into whataboutism when they cant prove anything.

As in your claim.

 

[RedV3x]

People on here have been asserting that soccer attempted to monopolise or somehow claim exclusivity over the term football without any evidence beyond a rebrand by the governind body.

I guess, because like me they think it's obvious.

So you dont have proof then?

What's the point in trying to prove something obvious to most ?
I don't care other than to think it's backfired on the FFA.
And I'm certainly not putting a lot of effort into an answer that will probably be deleted on somebody's whim.

 

[The_Wookie]

As in your claim.

My claim in this case is indisputable. The AFL literally no longer refers to those bodies as football tasmania or football victoria and has not done for years and those titles are now used by soccer bodies. Soccer has never claimed exclusivity over the term football in this country, and youve got nothing to suggest it does beyond a governing body title change.

 

[The_Wookie]

I guess, because like me they think it's obvious.'

Its obvious to several code warriors on here, its not obvious to anyone looking for proof that anyone has actually done this.

What's the point in trying to prove something obvious to most ?

You and the other two or three on this board, arent "most".

I don't care other than to think it's backfired on the FFA.
And I'm certainly not putting a lot of effort into an answer that will probably be deleted on somebody's whim.

If you have a legitimate answer that doesnt constitute a personal attack or something not related to the topic then thats not going to happen. We're 4 pages in and not a single shred of evidence has been put out that proves anyone tried to claim exclusive use of football for soccer in this country.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Stolen. Even a soccer troll should know that pinch can mean stolen.

You can't steal something which you don't own. As Wookie has said, they are now known as AFL Tasmania and Victoria. The name change happened in 2002 for Tasmania, before the name change of Soccer Australia.

Football West is the soccer governing body of Western Australia. Soccer can't "steal" Football WA because that is what the AFL governing body still calls itself.

 

[NoobPie]

Knowing how to quote posts properly is not an offence.

You don't even know what a strawman is do you?

You could not possibly be that obtuse

So no answers to the question then?

1. I read it on at least two occasions referenced by a journalist probably most recently the best part of a decade ago about an action perhaps two decades ago. I googled a few phrases and realised it is going to take too long a time just to prove a point to someone who will inevitably come up with some glib dismissal. I also implied that it is far more likely that commercial branding was highly likely the motivation (and certainly is subsequently)
2. No, I am very unlikely to locate any thing on the internet that confirms the the FFA have requested news outlets to call themselves "football"
3. Suggesting the FFA have lobbied to have media and government use the term "football" is not "paranoia" in the way the assuming the AFL is behind anything bad that happens to Australian soccer

 

[RedV3x]

youve got nothing to suggest it does beyond a governing body title change.

I've posted nothing because it's totally obvious when a body changes it's name without regard to the local conditions.
WTF would you have me do ?
Would you have me post every interview with every soccer player using the word football exclusively.
Would you have me post every media title using the word football exclusively for soccer.
Apart from your suggestion that the title is to bring it in line with some other leagues what evidence have you got - nothing?.

 

[RedV3x]

We're 4 pages in and not a single shred of evidence has been put out that proves anyone tried to claim exclusive use of football for soccer in this country.

"without any evidence beyond a rebrand by the governing body."

What's the point of discussing anything with you when such a caveat on the discussion.
The name change is at the very highest level and the consequences filter down.
You cannot post anything that backs up your claim that it was just a simple name change - can you.
I believe I can demonstrate my point.
Craig Foster - say no more.

 

[The_Wookie]

I've posted nothing because it's totally obvious when a body changes it's name without regard to the local conditions.
WTF would you have me do ?
Would you have me post every interview with every soccer player using the word football exclusively.
Would you have me post every media title using the word football exclusively for soccer.
Apart from your suggestion that the title is to bring it in line with some other leagues what evidence have you got - nothing?.

Id have you produce ANYTHING that suggests the FFA

• tried to get the term football exlusively used by them
• tried to get the media to use the term football for soccer exclusively
• tried to run roughshod over existing codes of football in australia
• stole existing australian football titles

or any of the other completely unsubstantiated arguments put forward in this thread.

 

[The_Wookie]

You don't even know what a strawman is do you?

You could not possibly be that obtuse

Im well aware of what you are trying to do, and you can consider yourself lucky to still be posting in the thread,

1. I read it on at least two occasions referenced by a journalist probably most recently the best part of a decade ago about an action perhaps two decades ago. I googled a few phrases and realised it is going to take too long a time just to prove a point to someone who will inevitably come up with some glib dismissal. I also implied that it is far more likely that commercial branding was highly likely the motivation (and certainly is subsequently)
2. No, I am very unlikely to locate any thing on the internet that confirms the the FFA have requested news outlets to call themselves "football"
3. Suggesting the FFA have lobbied to have media and government use the term "football" is not "paranoia" in the way the assuming the AFL is behind anything bad that happens to Australian soccer

Ok so nothing it is then.

"without any evidence beyond a rebrand by the governing body."

What's the point of discussing anything with you when such a caveat on the discussion.
The name change is at the very highest level and the consequences filter down.
You cannot post anything that backs up your claim that it was just a simple name change - can you.
I believe I can demonstrate my point.
Craig Foster - say no more.

you and others made a raft of suggestions that are simply not supported and then turned to a ridiculous argument to back up your lack of anything on the subject

In the absence of anything of substance to be added, and now resorting to whataboutism and personal effrontery, this thread has gone far enough.

Thanks all who participated.