Aristotle Pickett you are still yet to explain what "return on investment" means. Are you referring to profit/loss and size of central revenue distribution only? Or does the development of local youth into AFL-standard players factor in too?
When will the AFL see a return on their investment on GWS and Gold Coast?
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Draftee
- Sep 12, 2022
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Us Carlton supporters love the giants and have started to adopt their colours. Our recruitment drive is also heavily centered around recruiting their dead wood/injury prone players so clearly the two clubs have a good relationship.
Not sure how this narrative of us talking down on them has arisen. I personally really want to see them succeed.
- Oct 19, 2020
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- #54
I'm referring to those clubs making a profit from their own income.
Why is that the only criteria? Isn't there a value to the AFL from an increased talent pool from more youngsters in the rugby states taking up Australian rules? Shouldn't that be factored in, in terms of net benefit to the AFL?
Regarding the club's own income, matchday revenue will always have a handbrake on it while the stadia they play at is difficult for their target markets to access. The Showground, and especially Carrara, have pathetic public transport access. At least with the Showground there's a metro line and a light rail line planned to get people there, but there are no concrete plans as yet to connect Carrara to the light rail network.
If the AFL wants to Suns to be strong enough to stand on their own feet, they need to be lobbying the government to prioritise a line connecting Carrara to either Broadbeach or Surfers, and then onto Nerang to connect with the heavy rail line. That will get more people in.
- Oct 19, 2020
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- #56
I don't think the talent pool has increased greatly. Yes public transport would help imo.
All I'll say is, keep your eye on the next few drafts, the overwhelming majority of top talent coming out of Queensland is from the Gold Coast. They've had great prospects in the past too (Marcus Ashcroft, Nick Riewoldt), but not to the volume that it'll be in the next few years.
The AFL isn't looking at ROI the same way you are. They don't mind the expansion clubs running at a loss (for now) if it means they continue to grow the game at the grassroots level in emerging QLD/NSW markets because they know a grassroots level takeover eventually leads to better outcomes at the highest level. It's a long-term takeover strategy and it appears to be working with the amount of high end draft picks we're about to see coming out of the Gold Coast over the next three years.
The Gold Coast also happens to be the most competitive of three major northern markets (Sydney & Brisbane) in terms of sporting preferences within the city. It's been speculated that it's around about a 60/40 split between rugby league and Aussie rules on the GC as opposed to Sydney and Brisbane where it's more like a 90/10 in rugby league's favour. It means the Gold Coast is viewed as a legitimately winnable market for the AFL and they just have to create a competitive AFL team to capture the imagination of the GC public.
Having lived and gone to school here on the Gold Coast over the last two decades I can tell you right now that the NRL succeeded in the mission of capturing the GC public's imagination when the Titans first entered the NRL and would regularly draw sell out crowds to home games in the 2007-2010 period. The mistake the Titans/NRL made was screwing over the local tradies when their Centre of Excellence facilities were never properly paid for and a lot of the public turned their back on them for that reason. Since then, the Titans have never looked like dominating the marketplace and this has left the door open for the Suns if they can get it right. It now looks like we're finally getting it right after 12 years in the AFL and I'm confident that we're going to capture the GC market as a result.
Exactly. I would imagine that many schools make a loss on running things like a tuck shop, but if it means an increase in enrolment at the school because other similar nearby schools don't offer such services than it's a net gain.
If a few thousand extra (tens of thousand?) families in each of these expansion areas are drawn to AFL, as opposed to NRL, A-League, NBL etc, then the long-term investment gains added value. Including financial.
Edit: GC2015 has done a far better job of explaining this in the post immediately above this one
I wonder how long the AFL/Clubs are prepared to keep giving GWS $30 million plus per year and struggle to get 10,000 to Sydney matches even with thousands of free tickets!
If GWS were a normal business they would have been wound up years ago.
If GWS were a normal business they would have been wound up years ago.
Ticket pricing is a problem that needs fixing
But it's not a normal business. It's sport, which fits under the umbrella of the entertainment industry.
In other facets of the entertainment industry, for example, if a stage show is not putting bums on seats, it will indeed will be wound down. Concerts will be abandoned and tours cancelled if ticket sales are poor.
But AFL is televised into people's homes on their devices, which are then adorned with lucrative advertising content = $$$.
Sure, these people watching at home aren't directly paying to get in through the turnstiles. But as they say, if you're getting something for free, then most likely YOU are the product.
Why people try to equate AFL footy with "normal business" bemuses me. It's like when they say in response to an onfield discretion "if I did that in my workplace I'd be sacked". There's very little equivalence of AFL with normal business workplaces.
I’d bet my savings against anyone that the Giants and Suns will never be folded or relocated.
- Nov 21, 2013
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The accountants at AFL house must be pulling their hair out about GWS, if they have any left
Ignoring memberships and revenue and ticket prices. What average crowd size do people realistically think Gold Coast and Giants need to achieve at home games, that would result in less people saying they are failures etc?
10,000?
15,000?
20,000?
25,000?
30,000+?
10,000?
15,000?
20,000?
25,000?
30,000+?
- Sep 17, 2014
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Did you forget where Dixon came from?
Their stadia can only hold 22-23 000, and they already average 10 000 or just below. I'd say 15 000 shows good progress and 18 000 is an unambiguous success.
And Trent McKenzie up the other end too.
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Whose choice is that the club or afl ?
Not even WC or Collingwood is capable of making a profit without AFL distribution. GC and GWS will never get less than the average distribution. They will always be the two weakest clubs. But fianances should not be primary measure of success. Crowds, ratings, community engagement, participation/player development is way more important. GC going well with participation and development, but but clubs failing on most other measures.
- Oct 19, 2020
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- #72
AFL distribution is generated by clubs.
That was what I was trying to say.
Spot on. People need to realise that every club holds value to the game and over all profits, broadcasting, growth.
GC & GWS are in the toughest markets for AFL football, it is going to be decades of hardwork.
Even if the Giants and Suns fail, what do you want to do about it? Fold them? Relocate them? To where? Merge them?
I've heard people say that the Giants should move to Canberra, but I just think the Sydney population is way too big for one team. I read somewhere they'll hit 7 million by 2050, maybe before that. Two Sydney clubs won't need to capture a lot of that to be successful. There'd definitely be an issue with having three clubs in Sydney, but I don't see the problem with two.
Gold Coast should be fine, too, having that growing market all to itself; it's not as if anyone's talking about adding a second Gold Coast club to the competition.
Maybe they jumped the gun too early adding these teams, you could argue, but the addition of the Suns certainly seems to have done good for the future of QLD footy.
I've heard people say that the Giants should move to Canberra, but I just think the Sydney population is way too big for one team. I read somewhere they'll hit 7 million by 2050, maybe before that. Two Sydney clubs won't need to capture a lot of that to be successful. There'd definitely be an issue with having three clubs in Sydney, but I don't see the problem with two.
Gold Coast should be fine, too, having that growing market all to itself; it's not as if anyone's talking about adding a second Gold Coast club to the competition.
Maybe they jumped the gun too early adding these teams, you could argue, but the addition of the Suns certainly seems to have done good for the future of QLD footy.
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