When will the Age wisen up to this amateur

[ApplecrossWC]

The only thing worse than Caro's lies are the clowns who defend her

 

[Biggie_]

I have and find this thread amusing. Where in her article is there an error of fact?

where she states that their was a major rift between Arocca and Laidley, and that arocca wasnt invited to laidley house for drinks last night.

r u sure u read it

 

[Arecsa]

The only thing worse than Caro's lies are the clowns who defend her

I think she must have a few bigfooty accounts, she's a joke and I find it astounding people actually bother defending her. I bet Caro doesn't even know what a footy looks like, gossip mongering filth she is.

 

[HBF]

You'd think that The Age would have wised up long ago, but they continue to employ this amatuer. She's friggin hopeless, and I think this was really crystalised last year (IIRC) on Footy Classified.

She was asked by a Melbourne official if she would prefer to be:

a) 1st with the story, but only 80% right or
b) last with the story, but 100% right.

Surprise surprise, she took option a, and she can't even get 80%. She'd be lucky to get to 50%.

 

[SirJimi05]

You can't be serious? Half the shit he writes is fabricated bull, did you read the article...?

Did you read my post? Pretty sure i said "more often than not".

Compared to most other journo's her strike rate is pretty high.

And yes i did read the article but i haven't read Caro's piece or heard Laidley's version of events so i am not in a position to make a judgment either way.

 

[THRILLHO]

I bought the Age today specifically to see what angle they would try and press with the Dean Laidley scenario. Probably one of the most dignified exits from coaching and they still try to dig dirt. It's amazing.

 

[saintsrule]

where she states that their was a major rift between Arocca and Laidley, and that arocca wasnt invited to laidley house for drinks last night.

r u sure u read it[/QUOTE

Are you sure you read it properly? Where does it state either of the points you are trying to make?

But by late yesterday Laidley had still not spoken to North chief executive Eugene Arocca. For months there has been speculation that Laidley and Arocca had fallen out and the Laidley camp believed the CEO wanted a new coach. He was not expected at the Laidley household last night. Caretaker coach Darren Crocker was.
[B]"People say I fell out with the players but they will all be here later," said Laidley. "So will the president. Relationships at clubs don't usually end like this and I'm proud of that it has here."[/B]

 

[sgbn77]

I wouldn't know what the actual situation was, but seems you've just sort of agreed hook-line-and-sinker with the opposition newspaper, and refused point blank to listen to the Age version of events.

Don't read too much into what Arocca says.

Consider this, North probably got Laidley to sign a confidentiality clause, in order to be paid out for the remainder of the season. So with that in mind, Arocca can say what he likes.

Arocca is also desperately trying to lure a big name coach...which would be hurt if it became news that he'd fallen out with the last coach...so its in his interests to say it didn't happen.

Not saying these things definately happened...but you just appear a bit naive.

 

[gbatman]

Another example of employing a woman because its a good image, a novalty and "something different". There's is no room for the "token" anything if they do a poor job.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

As someone mentioned on another thread, we need somebody to write about the AFL in the same way Bill Simmons does about the NBA.

I'm a huge Bill Simmons fan, but how would that work? Most people get their noses out of joint with Wilson, Hutchison etc, for presenting opinions as facts. Simmons probably pulls himself off the couch three times a week. He is 100% an opinion writer. Plus, he can be far, far, far more venomous with athletes that he has never even met than Caroline Wilson is.

Again, I love Simmons' stuff, have pretty much been reading ever since he started at ESPN (2001). But with the standards we hold the media to in this country, he'd be hung, drawn and quartered within a month. Especially considering he never played in the AFL, like all the superstars on here.

 

[bourbons]

Caro goes allright. You have to learn to distinguish between her opinion pieces and her factual ones. There is a difference, you know.

Thats just it though - she almost goes out of her way to blur the lines

She actually got pulled up on it (in a small way) on FC last monday

Was banging on about something, Lyon chimed in with something like "Thats 'in your opinion', yeah Caro?"

Her response; "Well yes Garry, I'm saying it so obviously its my opinion.."

That gives a fair insight into her mindset IMO, and its absolutely useless from someone who for all intents and purposes is paid to report the facts. If she only wants to write gossip columns and opinion pieces just come out and say so!

 

[polly63]

Another example of employing a woman because its a good image, a novalty and "something different". There's is no room for the "token" anything if they do a poor job.

Classic case of keyboard hero. Get some perspective and knowledge before you write such drivel.

 

[THRILLHO]

But by late yesterday Laidley had still not spoken to North chief executive Eugene Arocca. For months there has been speculation that Laidley and Arocca had fallen out and the Laidley camp believed the CEO wanted a new coach. He was not expected at the Laidley household last night. Caretaker coach Darren Crocker was.
[B]"People say I fell out with the players but they will all be here later," said Laidley. "So will the president. Relationships at clubs don't usually end like this and I'm proud of that it has here.

Lol, it's just classic weasel wording.

-- "It is speculated"
-- "The Age understands"
-- "A senior official at the club..."


It's to avoid culpability and responsibility. She isnt going to state it unequivocally.

 

[saintsrule]

Thats just it though - she almost goes out of her way to blur the lines

She actually got pulled up on it (in a small way) on FC last monday

Was banging on about something, Lyon chimed in with something like "Thats 'in your opinion', yeah Caro?"

Her response; "Well yes Garry, I'm saying it so obviously its my opinion.."That gives a fair insight into her mindset IMO, and its absolutely useless from someone who for all intents and purposes is paid to report the facts. If she only wants to write gossip columns and opinion pieces just come out and say so!

Your fine example makes Garry Lyon look stupid, not Caro. Journalists are employed to both report facts and to present opinions, which is exactly what Caro does. Newspapers would be very bland indeed if all they did was to report facts. Any dill can do that, it's the quality of the commentary on those facts that distinguishes a journalist from a mere reporter.

 

[AlecDuncan]

You'd think that The Age would have wised up long ago, but they continue to employ this amatuer.

Have you read the rest of the paper? They won't wise up until their bankers board up the place and sell it for apartments.

 

[polly63]

Your fine example makes Garry Lyon look stupid, not Caro. Journalists are employed to both report facts and to present opinions, which is exactly what Caro does. Newspapers would be very bland indeed if all they did was to report facts. Any dill can do that, it's the quality of the commentary on those facts that distinguishes a journalist from a mere reporter.

Exactly. And much of what is reported results from "off the record" information from both first and second hand sources - not just plucked from the sky. There's always a LOT more going on at clubs than is in the public arena despite what some people like to think.

 

[Zvim]

The only articles by Caro I have read in the last two years are ones linked in BF, this one was factually well off the ball.

I don't know if someone has something against her but her thouces when it comes to North are so far off she is being made to look a goose. She should be smarter to trust sources that have made her look stupid for years.

 

[Sanks]

I'm a huge Bill Simmons fan, but how would that work? Most people get their noses out of joint with Wilson, Hutchison etc, for presenting opinions as facts. Simmons probably pulls himself off the couch three times a week. He is 100% an opinion writer. Plus, he can be far, far, far more venomous with athletes that he has never even met than Caroline Wilson is.

Again, I love Simmons' stuff, have pretty much been reading ever since he started at ESPN (2001). But with the standards we hold the media to in this country, he'd be hung, drawn and quartered within a month. Especially considering he never played in the AFL, like all the superstars on here.

I don't agree, Simmons has a few things going for him that our writers do not.

First and foremost is a real sense of humour, I can't remember the last time I read something by one of our journalists which had a pop culture reference or analogy which genuinely made me laugh. Sheehan seems to try every now and then but I think he is about 30 years out of touch.

Secondly his articles read at lot easier than AFL journo's, It's like he actually loves the sports he covers and could write forever about them reminicing about this player or that or great games he has seen, rather than just trying to fill his weekly word quota and fit in a dig about someone for effect. When he does have a go at someone he isn't simply trying to grab a headline, his articles read like he is simply saying 'this is what I reckon and this is why'. Our journos by comparison seem to fall over themselves to destroy someone or break the big scoop.

IMO He seems to write much more from a fans point of view the only comparison i can draw in AFL is Paul Daffey from the age.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Definitely some good points you've made Sanks - and I'd say Martin Flanagan is another who would fit this particular mould, although he does more standard reporting sometimes too.

 

[bourbons]

Your fine example makes Garry Lyon look stupid, not Caro. Journalists are employed to both report facts and to present opinions, which is exactly what Caro does. Newspapers would be very bland indeed if all they did was to report facts. Any dill can do that, it's the quality of the commentary on those facts that distinguishes a journalist from a mere reporter.

Fair enough point, but I'm talking about the distinction between facts and opinions. She's got a rep for presenting one as the other for a reason, its the way she goes about it.

I can't imagine a host feeling the need to question many other journalists halfway through a sentence in the way she was on FC.

 

[Zvim]

Definitely some good points you've made Sanks - and I'd say Martin Flanagan is another who would fit this particular mould, although he does more standard reporting sometimes too.

Martin is lost in the past, his best articles are about old players or the amateur side of football. He has a wealth of knowledge but don't think he cares much for the modern game the way he writes lovingly about the past and more with disdain about the present.

 

[gbatman]

probably wouldn't get a job if she was a man. Quality is not evident. But there are lots of shockers.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Martin is lost in the past, his best articles are about old players or the amateur side of football. He has a wealth of knowledge but don't think he cares much for the modern game the way he writes lovingly about the past and more with disdain about the present.

I'm not sure, but I suspect he may be a Fitzroy man Zvim, or at least someone with strong sympathies in that direction - that would perhaps explain his attitude to many elements of the present-day AFL. I do remember he invariably gave the Roys a much fairer and more sensitive treatment than many others, even in the club's darkest hours.

His recent articles about the Demons have always been of a high quality too, I must say.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I don't agree, Simmons has a few things going for him that our writers do not.

First and foremost is a real sense of humour, I can't remember the last time I read something by one of our journalists which had a pop culture reference or analogy which genuinely made me laugh. Sheehan seems to try every now and then but I think he is about 30 years out of touch.

Secondly his articles read at lot easier than AFL journo's, It's like he actually loves the sports he covers and could write forever about them reminicing about this player or that or great games he has seen, rather than just trying to fill his weekly word quota and fit in a dig about someone for effect. When he does have a go at someone he isn't simply trying to grab a headline, his articles read like he is simply saying 'this is what I reckon and this is why'. Our journos by comparison seem to fall over themselves to destroy someone or break the big scoop.

IMO He seems to write much more from a fans point of view the only comparison i can draw in AFL is Paul Daffey from the age.

A lot of truth in what you are saying. Very funny man (moonlighted as a comedy writer for the Jimmy Kimmel show for a couple of years). His humour was outrageous in the early days, he's toned it down a bit now that he is so popular globally. And any man that can write about the Boston Red Sox and keep my interest has a talent. I've got a few problems with his style of writing translating to our media though.

1. He set himself apart by his mixture of sport and pop culture. The public gobbled up what he was writing and now he has licence to write about pretty much whatever the hell he wants. He has an incredible amount of power. This is the one guy writing for a major sporting publication who can say "screw writing about the NFL games this week, I want to do a piece on the Rocky movies." That person doesn't exist in Australia (to my knowledge). And if that person did come along, their style of writing would instantly be dismissed as a Bill Simmons rip-off.

2. There are two gripes about the media that go above and beyond everything else (see the FFE section on this site for more). One: "Reporter X has never played AFL. What would he (or she) know?" Or two: "Ex superstar player X is so biased he makes me want to kick the TV in. How has he still got a job?"

Now, to the best of my knowledge, Bill Simmons wasn't even good enough to play his chosen sport (basketball) for his high school team. And he is completely unashamed with his Boston bias. He flaunts it, not even attempting to stay objective. This actually resonates with fans, because we know what it feels like to look at your team through rose-coloured glasses, to ride that rollercoaster of one week imagining they can win the premiership if everything goes to plan, then the next week expecting them to finish in the bottom three on the ladder. We've all been there.

3. Bill Simmons has an EASY job. Unbelievably easy. The only reason he can keep that job is that he is an amazing writer. His style would be very easy to replicate, but I don't think there is a writer in the Australian sports industry that holds a candle to him. He is lucky to be talented enough to keep what has to be one of the better jobs in the world, simply because no-one could do it better than him.

4. As mentioned in point one, Bill Simmons can write about whatever he wants. Now, try to imagine if ou'd like him as much if he just wrote about one sport. I love my basketball, but I don't think his stuff would stay as fresh if he only ever wrote about basketball and threw a few pop-culture references in now and then. I think it would get stale pretty quickly.

 

[Fabulous]

where she states that their was a major rift between Arocca and Laidley, and that arocca wasnt invited to laidley house for drinks last night.

r u sure u read it

Would you like to provide the quotes in her article where she wrote these words?