When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think when you have a disaster it tends to get blamed for a lot of things that come after it, until things turn good again (if they ever do).

Carlton are largely where they are due to a series of poor football decisions from 2012 onwards that started with the sacking of Ratten for Malthouse. The appointment of Teague, who is clearly out of his depth, was another one.

Essendon have done better than expected this year but last year when the wheels were totally off, people were still blaming the drug saga. The reality was that the reappointment of Worsfold, who did a terrible job from 2018 to 2020, was the real issue. He made some appalling blunders in restructuring his coaching group (which led to his superiors having to step in and fix them on the run by removing Neeld) and then presided over a culture of poor standards.

Things immediately looked better this year and it wasn’t because we were suddenly over the drug saga. It was because Rutten came in and fixed problems that had been there since 2018.

 

[demondavey]

It won’t be JUST Teague. Will be most coaches and other roles. This is about a lot more than one person

Probably should expect those that appointed Teague to step down as well if you want total accountability? How many did you look at before appointing Teague?

 

[Robertio]

Are you being sarcastic?

No

 

[Snoozer]

Didn't he sign for 7?

It was ONLY 6.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LordLucifer]

Appointing Sayers. There’s your first issue. He is just out for blood. He wants Teague gone. You burn coaches like they’re kindling.

The guy is not content to just sit there and accept mediocrity, he wants change to enact improvement and you consider it a fault. If he didn't do anything you'd criticise him for that too.

FMD, I'd be kicking heads right now if I was in his shoes.

Give yourself an uppercut !!

 

[cobra land]

Yep. Wouldn’t have played him and wouldn’t have kept him on in 2021. Amazing servant, great player. But time is up.

He's been your most consistent, courageous player over a long long period of time and when you couldn't even beat an egg but you'd give him the flick ?.
Also what message does that send to the young guys who idolise Jones ?
Have you played football ?, because you sound like a supporter who thinks decisions like this are easy..

 

[La Dispute]

They simply recycle through their current board and expect a differing result. They’ve got no ability of turning things around if it’s the same crew but in different roles. I am surprised Carlton members continue to front up and pay for this rubbish. At least in the last few years we’ve turned a corner. Paul Roos was enormous in facilitating that.

You reckon we’d get a different result from keeping the same members of the board?

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Did Essendon get different results this season after elevating Rutten to senior coach after being an assistant for a few years?

If things aren’t working you try different things, appoint better leaders to higher levels of authority and work out exactly where the weak points are. That is no different to how any club conducts their business.

 

[Soapy V]

Probably should expect those that appointed Teague to step down as well if you want total accountability? How many did you look at before appointing Teague?

MLG is standing aside and Liddle will either go or be told to keep out of Football matters. It was those two that decided

 

[demondavey]

He's been your most consistent, courageous player over a long long period of time and when you couldn't even beat an egg but you'd give him the flick ?.
Also what message does that send to the young guys who idolise Jones ?
Have you played football ?, because you sound like a supporter who thinks decisions like this are easy..

I gave you my answer. He isn’t best 22. He was past it last year. I am not saying disrespect the man, but I don’t think a contract was in order for beyond 2020.

 

[Snoozer]

Who are the new faces on the board?

Matheson, Pratt, Sayers and MLG have each been there for the good part of a decade or more.

No doubt it will end up a train wreck.

The deep pockets will sell the farm yet again for a Lyon or Clarkson, buy in some more flaky journeymen on huge money and we'll end up with exactly the same problem.

Like it or not, the club is owned by the Pratt's and Mathieson's. Members ain't worth Jack shit. It cannot succeed until all benefactors are gone.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[demondavey]

The guy is not content to just sit there and accept mediocrity, he wants change to enact improvement and you consider it a fault. If he didn't do anything you'd criticise him for that too.

FMD, I'd be kicking heads right now if I was in his shoes.

Give yourself an uppercut !!

Then put accountability on those who appointed Teague if he isn’t up to it. It seemed like a pretty quick decision.

 

[Soapy V]

No doubt it will end up a train wreck.

The deep pockets will sell the farm yet again for a Lyon or Clarkson, buy in some more flaky journeymen on huge money and we'll end up with exactly the same problem.

Like it or not, the club is owned by the Pratt's and Mathieson's. Members ain't worth Jack sh*t. It cannot succeed until all benefactors are gone.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

No it’s not owned by them.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

You reckon we’d get a different result from keeping the same members of the board?

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Did Essendon get different results this season after elevating Rutten to senior coach after being an assistant for a few years?

If things aren’t working you try different things, appoint better leaders to higher levels of authority and work out exactly where the weak points. That is no different to how any club conducts their business.

Presidential and Board Succession plans often means more of the same imo, esp if they are there with the backing of the Mathieson and Pratt families.

Sayers does not strike me with any confidence, I would honestly vote for an alternative choice if it comes down to that.

Mind you if he does the unexpectedly courageous and right thing by retaining Teague, he would get my support..

 

[Snoozer]

I think the point Soapy is trying to make here is that we copped a massive whack for the Salary Cap breaches, they were so savage that it would have sent some of the other clubs to the wall had it have happened to them.

Somehow, we were able to get through those penalties and survive BUT, and this is the kicker, we did virtually nothing to change our administrative structures and practices nor review and improve the important areas of List Management & Recruiting/Talent Identification. This went on for another 8-10 years after the SC penalties.

I'm not using that as an excuse for why we are a rabble, just pointing out that we didn't learn from our mistakes initially thinking that we didn't need to when clearly all of the other clubs had moved hastily into the more professional era. We got left behind due to our arrogance & reluctance to move with the times.

It wasn't until a change of board & the appointment of Silvagni that we truly embraced the new world order of the AFL and were able to make some inroads into revitalising the club. We revamped a number of areas in the club, most notably the recruiting department which Silvagni had lambasted when he made a presentation to the board in the early days. The belief was that we had part-time staff and a couple of filing cabinets of notes, no computers or long-term plans and vision. In other words, it was amateur hour.

We still haven't got it all right but have made huge strides when compared with the shambolic way everything was done in the past.

OK so first it was the cap penalties argument which is utter nonsense.

Then we never embraced the draft, kept trying to buy our way out, and still are.

So it is the board's fault.

Now we have another lead singer but keeping the same band. Do people seriously not see a problem here? After being bullshitted to for years and years, people are going to expect that those same moneymen in power are suddenly going to change their ways? We are going to simply keep doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result. There's a famous quote by a smart fellow about that.


On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rich01]

MLG has been on the board for 9-years in total but pres for six, is standing down at the next AGM.
Pratt is a long-termer at eight years & seven months.
Sayers is part of the old brigade and will be the new pres.
Mathiesen is a long-termer at 7-years.

You sure those dates are right?
I thought MLG was stepping down because his 8 year term as prez was up?
Pratt arrived early 2011 and Matheson and Sayers in 2012.

These four have been the mainstays of all the key decision making at the club for the last decade.

It looks likely that they will once again be making very important decisions on the direction of the football club.

 

[cobra land]

I gave you my answer. He isn’t best 22. He was past it last year. I am not saying disrespect the man, but I don’t think a contract was in order for beyond 2020.

I understand where you're coming from but I'm just saying that sometimes you have to treat some players with a bit more respect, Murphy and Jones are deserving of that ?
Both especially so after playing at the one club so many years without any team success. I think that's the message I'd want to be sending to my players ?

 

[La Dispute]

Presidential and Board Succession plans often means more of the same imo, esp if they are there with the backing of the Mathieson and Pratt families.

Sayers does not strike me with any confidence, I would honestly vote for an alternative choice if it comes down to that.

Mind you if he does the unexpectedly courageous and right thing by retaining Teague, he would get my support..

Teague is an awful coach.

We sat through the Bolton era, but his inability to win some of the most lopsided games has been damning.

The West Coast game, North game, recent Gold Coast game and early Collingwood match sit in my mind as some of the worst coaching performances in the last three years.

How he’s been unable to manufacture some base level wins with the personnel he has had, which is looking like including a Coleman medalist and a couple more likely AA players, is completely beyond me.

He isn’t the only problem, but he is a major part of why we’ve been uncompetitive against good teams and vulnerable against average teams. His coaching this year has been brainless, and he has to be the first to go.

 

[demondavey]

I understand where you're coming from but I'm just saying that sometimes you have to treat some players with a bit more respect, Murphy and Jones are deserving of that ?
Both especially so after playing at the one club so many years without any team success. I think that's the message I'd want to be sending to my players ?

I think it sends a message to a young kid that is more positive for him if he gets picked or doesn’t get dropped just to gift a game to a veteran. I.e Why am I getting dropped? Or why aren’t I getting picked if there’s an injury?

 

[Snoozer]

Presidential and Board Succession plans often means more of the same imo, esp if they are there with the backing of the Mathieson and Pratt families.

Sayers does not strike me with any confidence, I would honestly vote for an alternative choice if it comes down to that.

Mind you if he does the unexpectedly courageous and right thing by retaining Teague, he would get my support..

You got the first bit right in my view.

Second bit not so much. Teague is shocking.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[demondavey]

You got the first bit right in my view.

Second bit not so much. Teague is shocking.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why is Teague so bad?

 

[Robertio]

You sure those dates are right?
I thought MLG was stepping down because his 8 year term as prez was up?
Pratt arrived early 2011 and Matheson and Sayers in 2012.

These four have been the mainstays of all the key decision making at the club for the last decade.

It looks likely that they will once again be making very important decisions on the direction of the football club.

Now i see where you're going with this and i tend to agree.

 

[Snoozer]

Teague is an awful coach.

We sat through the Bolton era, but his inability to win some of the most lopsided games has been damning.

The West Coast game, North game, recent Gold Coast game and early Collingwood match sit in my mind as some of the worst coaching performances in the last three years.

How he’s been unable to manufacture some base level wins with the personnel he has had, which is looking like including a Coleman medalist and a couple more likely AA players, is completely beyond me.

He isn’t the only problem, but he is a major part of why we’ve been uncompetitive against good teams and vulnerable against average teams. His coaching this year has been brainless, and he has to be the first to go.

Correct.

It almost like people haven't watched us play certain games this year and only looked at the scoreboard.

Gold Coast
North
Giants
West Coast
Sydney
Port Adel
Dogs for a half
Brisbane
Collingwood

All absolutely abysmal performances. Now I don't expect we beat the top echelon, but I expect to be competitive. We are rarely smashed on the scoreboard, but also rarely in the contest. Too easy to play against and easily dismantled.

Even the wins against Pies, Hawks, crows, Suns first time - all very unconvincing, won on the back of Walsh, McKay etc.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PP34]

The way I currently see it.

The list isn’t as good as some Carlton fans and the club itself see it. However it isn’t as bad as a lot of opposition fans think it is.

It definitely doesn’t look as promising as it might have 2-3 years ago. Back then Cripps was a really elite player, Docherty hadn’t done two ACLs, Marchbank managed to play some footy and Petrevski-Seton looked very promising.

But we still have McKay, Curnow, Weitering, Jones, Walsh along with Saad and Williams who I think can both offer a lot more. Only have to look at Melbourne this year to see that coaching and how much you get out of the lesser players is very integral to success.

That’s talent enough to at least end up playing finals. I didn’t think it was going to happen this year. But certainly didn’t expect such flat games or drop offs like we’ve seen all year and that’s why I think Teague will end up gone. I think a coach simply has to be able to consistently motivate his team to play hungry footy and he hasn’t.

A lot of the wins or good quarters this year have been down to individual performances and whenever the team is losing you can very clearly see problems, particularly defensively. Yesterday the players allowed Gold Coast to chip their way through the zone defence and win the game on their own terms. It was the same story for 4 quarters and I didn’t see much change as the game went on. In the fourth quarter it got even worse.

The fact that this team has served up some deplorable efforts and results this year and still weren’t far off finals says to me that they have the talent to do so.

 

[Snoozer]

Why is Teague so bad?

Because he could send a glass eye to sleep. Shows zero passion, lacks nous to make changes where obviously needed. Rabbit in headlights when opposition have momentum. Won't make hard calls on certain players.

We are way too easy to play against.

Can see him being easily influenced by people with power.

On SM-A715F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[nineteen eighty]

Then stand for the board or vote them out.

The board is elected.

So really, if the fish rots at the head, then it’s the members because they pick the board.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Haven't the board recently looked to change the constitution to not make it possible for members to challenge the board.

A fish rots from the head. Your board is rotten. What does one expect from the remainder of the club?!