Opinion Where do Gawn, Petracca, and Oliver rank in our all-time greats?

[Headless]

I think a lot of us here mark these three harshly just because their standards are so high. But these three have pretty consistently been in the top ten in the competition in my eyes for several years, and that's pretty remarkable. Imagine being able to say that about three of our players some years ago.

Here is a quick overview of achievements of the three, basically just taken from their Wikipedia pages.

Max Gawn

• 189 games, 94 goals
• AFL premiership captain: 2021
• 6× All-Australian team: 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 (c), 2022
• Melbourne captain: 2020–
• 2× Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Medallist: 2018, 2019
• AFLCA Champion Player of the Year: 2018
• Neale Daniher Trophy: 2016

Christian Petracca

• 162 games, 152 goals
• AFL premiership player: 2021
• Norm Smith Medal: 2021
• 3× All-Australian team: 2020, 2021, 2022
• Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy: 2020
• Melbourne leading goalkicker: 2019
• Neale Daniher Trophy: 2017
• Frank 'Checker' Hughes Medal: 2021
• 2× 22under22 team: 2016, 2018
• AFL Rising Star nominee: 2016

Clayton Oliver

• 157 games, 50 goals
• AFL premiership player: 2021
• 2x AFLCA Champion Player of the Year Award: 2021, 2022
• 3x All-Australian team: 2018, 2021, 2022
• 4× Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Medallist: 2017, 2019, 2021, 2022
• 3× 22under22 team: 2017, 2018, 2019
• Harold Ball Memorial Trophy: 2017
• Frank 'Checker' Hughes Medal: 2022
• Neale Daniher Trophy: 2022
• 2x Lou Richards Medal: 2021, 2022
• AFLCA Best Young Player Award: 2017
• AFL Rising Star nominee: 2016
• Morrish Medal: 2015

Three grouse records, and we're lucky to have each of them running out in our colours each week. Where do they rank?

 

[Bluelegs]

The embarrassing thing for the club from a historical perspective is for the past 70-odd years there wouldn't be many times where numerous players on our list would have been consistently marked as some of the best in the competition in their respective roles.

Gawn is my favourite Demon ever, both for what he's achieved and what he had to overcome early in his career. I've always had a soft spot for the ruckmen, unfortunately I barely got to see Stynes play but Jeff White

Jeff White

Age

47

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

6.3

4star

HO

18.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

1.6

2star

HO

3.0

5star

was always my favourite as a kid. I can't imagine we'll be lucky enough to have another ruckman in our lifetimes anywhere near as good or consistant as Gawn has been over the past decade.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I’d have them in the top 3 I’ve seen (following since 1993). I’d suspect that Robbie Flower would pip them. Hopefully there are some spritely octogenarians lurking on the board to give their views on how they rate next to Norm Smith, Barrassi, Don Cordner, Stuart Spencer and such.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I think Oliver is clearly the best Melbourne player ive seen. Trac is clear #2

Probably sounds dumb given the AA's but id have Neitz ahead of Gawn, yes I know being a premiership captain makes it hard to say hes not a good leader but I think Neitz was clearly the superior leader/captain. If we had Neita captaining this group instead of Gawn I think we are a much better team. On talent alone its Gawn but when you add intangibles into the mix I think Neitz is ahead of him.

 

[schmuttt]

I think Oliver is clearly the best Melbourne player ive seen. Trac is clear #2

Probably sounds dumb given the AA's but id have Neitz ahead of Gawn, yes I know being a premiership captain makes it hard to say hes not a good leader but I think Neitz was clearly the superior leader/captain. If we had Neita captaining this group instead of Gawn I think we are a much better team. On talent alone its Gawn but when you add intangibles into the mix I think Neitz is ahead of him.

Gawn is one of the best ever in his position. Neitz was a better captain but as a player Gawn is well ahead.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Gawn is one of the best ever in his position. Neitz was a better captain but as a player Gawn is well ahead.

Teams win granny's without a #1 ruckman all the time. Being the best ruckman in the league is a lot easier than being the best FF

 

[Bluelegs]

Teams win granny's without a #1 ruckman all the time. Being the best ruckman in the league is a lot easier than being the best FF

We won a flag with two bog average key forwards.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

We won a flag with two bog average key forwards.

Winning a flag with a bog ruckman happens far more often than it does without a gun forward. You could argue Fritch was our FF that day also. I said FF, not KPF.

 

[Bluelegs]

Winning a flag with a bog ruckman happens far more often than it does without a gun forward. You could argue Fritch was our FF that day also. I said FF, not KPF.

The distinction between full forward and kpf is pretty meaningless in modern footy. Arguing that Fritsch was our full forward that day obfuscates your point even more. And you can't just limit it to the Grand Final, you need the whole season of work to get there in the first place.

West Coast 06, Geelong 09 & 11, Sydney 12, Dogs 16 other recent examples of flags with average key forwards. Not as uncommon as you would think. But I don't see us winning the flag in 2021 without Gawn, was super important to our game.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The distinction between full forward and kpf is pretty meaningless in modern footy. Arguing that Fritsch was our full forward that day obfuscates your point even more. And you can't just limit it to the Grand Final, you need the whole season of work to get there in the first place.

West Coast 06, Geelong 09 & 11, Sydney 12, Dogs 16 other recent examples of flags with average key forwards. Not as uncommon as you would think. But I don't see us winning the flag in 2021 without Gawn was super important to our game.

West Coast don't win shit without the Q-Stick. How dare you.

 

[Bluelegs]

West Coast don't win s**t without the Q-Stick. How dare you.

That's fair although he was probably B tier when put up against the rest of the forwards that year.

 

[LeverPuller]

Hard to factor in the 1950s crew as it’s so long ago, but let’s say from Barassi taking over as coach in ‘81 as a marker…

Then I would put it:
1) Oliver
2) Flower
3) Gawn
4) Neitz
5) Petracca
6) Stynes
7) Farmer
8) Yze
9) Lyon
10) T Viney

With special mention to a couple of freak seasons: Ox 94, Woewodin 2000

 

[SugarHealey]

Hard to factor in the 1950s crew as it’s so long ago, but let’s say from Barassi taking over as coach in ‘81 as a marker…

Then I would put it:
1) Oliver
2) Flower
3) Gawn
4) Neitz
5) Petracca
6) Stynes
7) Farmer
8) Yze
9) Lyon
10) T Viney

With special mention to a couple of freak seasons: Ox 94, Woewodin 2000

Flower would pants Oliver, outside or on-ball.
Oliver only wins the first touch efforts, in-under. Away form the ball-up, Flower would have him. And destroy him the other way.

If I was coaching us, against Petracca, I would play Sean Wight on him, on-ball.

Gawn was one of our best ever when he's fully in form. The past 2 weeks, he doesn't get near Jimma Stynes.

 

[jhong]

Hard to factor in the 1950s crew as it’s so long ago, but let’s say from Barassi taking over as coach in ‘81 as a marker…

Then I would put it:
1) Oliver
2) Flower
3) Gawn
4) Neitz
5) Petracca
6) Stynes
7) Farmer
8) Yze
9) Lyon
10) T Viney

With special mention to a couple of freak seasons: Ox 94, Woewodin 2000

No mention of Jeff White ?

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Todd Viney was a big name and I loved him, but as a footballer pretty overrated imo. Plenty of better players than him in the same era imo.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Not the same era but i'd have Jones clearly ahead of Todd Viney

 

[danster168]

Hard to factor in the 1950s crew as it’s so long ago, but let’s say from Barassi taking over as coach in ‘81 as a marker…

Then I would put it:
1) Oliver
2) Flower
3) Gawn
4) Neitz
5) Petracca
6) Stynes
7) Farmer
8) Yze
9) Lyon
10) T Viney

With special mention to a couple of freak seasons: Ox 94, Woewodin 2000

* I've excluded Lyon, Stynes etc. because my memories of them are hazy compared to the others.

In my lifetime:
1. Oliver
2. Gawn
3. Neitz
4. Farmer
5. A.Davey
6. Yze
7. Petracca
8. Jeff White
9. Steven May
10. Russell Robertson

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

If I was coaching us, against Petracca, I would play Sean Wight on him, on-ball.

So random

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Im a renowned Trac hater on this board apparently and I think you guys are being VERY disrespectful.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Rating players only at their best would be an interesting list

1. Schwarz...easily the best player ive ever seen play a game for us (I started following the Dees a year after Flower retire so cant speak on him)
2. Jakovich
3. Farmer
4. Gawn
5. Trac
6. Neitz
7. Oliver (more a player who is constantly very good)
8. Lyon
9. Tingay
10. Davey

 

[TheBoss]

I think Oliver is clearly the best Melbourne player ive seen. Trac is clear #2

Probably sounds dumb given the AA's but id have Neitz ahead of Gawn, yes I know being a premiership captain makes it hard to say hes not a good leader but I think Neitz was clearly the superior leader/captain. If we had Neita captaining this group instead of Gawn I think we are a much better team. On talent alone its Gawn but when you add intangibles into the mix I think Neitz is ahead of him.

I agree with your comments on Oliver.

But I would have Neitz as #2, but I am a Neitz stan. I started wearing the #9 on my Melb guernsey at Vic Kick in 1994.

I had nfi who Neitz was at the time. I chose #9 to 1-up my brother who had #10 on his Bummers jumper. Somehow I hitched myself to the bandwagon of our longest serving captain, leading goal kicker and all-round club champion.

I still own that jumper!

I sat next to an adjacent table at a cafe when he was eating lunch one time. I played it cool and just gave a head nod. I didn't want to disturb him. Inside I was completely fan-girling over him.

This is the complete opposite of when Don Mclardy was eating lunch at the same joint as me and I was having a loud, boisterous conversation about how inept I thought he and the current club administration were.

 

[TheBoss]

If I were to rate players that I have watched in my life time, I would put Liam Jurrah

Liam Jurrah

Age

36

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.8

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

G

2.0

5star

in my top 10.

Sure, he had a short tenure and numerous off field troubles. But he got me to enjoy watching Melbourne games again.

If we are rating him on pure skill and ability, he is clearly the #1 rated Melbourne player that I have ever seen.

 

[LeverPuller]

This is the complete opposite of when Don Mclardy was eating lunch at the same joint as me and I was having a loud, boisterous conversation about how inept I thought he and the current club administration were.

Are you Proper Gander in disguise? This is something they’d say and probably do

 

[Johnny Karate]

I find Nathan Jones somewhat hard to rate. I have huge respect for the way he carried an awful side. If it were a list of my favourite players he’d rate highly but on ability I’d have him somewhere around the mark of Viney x 2 and Junior McDonald.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I find Nathan Jones somewhat hard to rate. I have huge respect for the way he carried an awful side. If it were a list of my favourite players he’d rate highly but on ability I’d have him somewhere around the mark of Viney x 2 and Junior McDonald.

I think Jones was much more skilful than those 3, that's why I'd have him easily ahead of them.

Get you point however they are all heart and soul kind of players.