Yes it's almost as if the premier kicked more goals than everyone that they beat....
Prediction Where will our Goals come from in 2023?
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Yes it's almost as if the premier kicked more goals than everyone that they beat....
no...only our boot!
Tabs. All depends on Tabs. When he plays, the forward structure functions, he kicks a goal a week guaranteed. Just need to stay on the park. He has to play 14-18 games.
Tabs to get 30+, replaces Lobb's 2022. Fyfe then comes in and kicks 20-30, and suddenly it is goals galore.
Ideally with those two, Treacy comes in and kicks 20. The third forward.
Tabs to get 30+, replaces Lobb's 2022. Fyfe then comes in and kicks 20-30, and suddenly it is goals galore.
Ideally with those two, Treacy comes in and kicks 20. The third forward.
Arcassius
Team Chaplain
Lobb was sometimes mobile, and sometimes like balls dropped on his head. Fyfe will continually drag defenders around creating more space than Lobb ever did
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Not sure where your stats are from, according to footywire almost every year almost the whole of the top 8 average over 12 goals per game. Usually both Grand finalists are averaging 13+
last year we were the only top 8 team to average below 12 goals per game (11.3)
we want to be averaging 13 plus while maintaining our defence numbers from 2022.
Good way to look at it, but I think it helps if you clearly list assumed average and games played.
your list has all of Fyfe, tabs, amiss, Treacy and Jackson kicking 20 to 40 goals, which would need them all playing virtually every game. But we‘ll never play all 5, and even all 4 might be stretching it.
if you assume 40 from Fyfe, plus 40 from tabs, then you prob have to cut the amiss-Treacy combo to 25 total, at best.
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I’m not either, however statistically he’s our best forward by a country mile, last 3 years he’s had our highest goal average per game with 2022=1.8 (lobb was 1.7) 2021=2.3, 2020=1.8 (shorter games). He’s basically good for two goals a game. Until we see that consistency from Treacy and Amiss, Tabs will be first tall selected.
If we're talking where are we getting our goals for the year, the value to the team of Taberners' average goal per game gets diluted by the fact it's invariably based on two-thirds of a season or (more often) less per season.
This becomes a factor for the overall contribution to the goals in a season when looking at the if and how we've invested in who's going to get those goals when inevitably Taberner's not there. In other words, prioritising other KPFs' development and their synchronicity within the team.
Stats are one thing, but watching him move, he’s nowhere at the level he was 18 months ago imo. Also struggling to mark with arms fully stretched. Both his goals last week were handball assists to Tabs running into goals.
Would not be surprised to see him miss selection in Rd 1 and we go with the Jackson/ Treacy/ Fyfe combo with Frederick/ Switta/ Schultz and Walters as the smalls. Sturt the backup for Walters.
That will make us very fast and very good at ground level.
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DocT
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Very good point Vintage. Glass-half-full Tabs is probably 15 games and 30 goals. And I like thinking of Amiss/Treacy as a single unit, 25 I would hope is the minimum the'd kick together. So we're down 29 goals on my table, our average/game is then 13.5 or 81pts. A score of 13.5:10 = 91 pts a game - good but no cigar...
A couple of years ago I remember Fyfe playing forward & Darcy Moore manning him. Moore did a good job nullifying him.
For me this means that Fyfe will invariably draw the best oppo defender, thus allowing our other forwards to get off the leash.
Small picture Fyfe doesn't look like a raging success
Big picture the team does very well
And
Fyfe is too good to be nullified each week
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For me this means that Fyfe will invariably draw the best oppo defender, thus allowing our other forwards to get off the leash.
Small picture Fyfe doesn't look like a raging success
Big picture the team does very well
And
Fyfe is too good to be nullified each week
On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Obviously personnel forward of the ball is a reasonable focus for increasing scoring, but likely the biggest leap in potency would be made with a high octane game plane that moves the ball with all the speed we can muster.
Duffield on Fyfe (Codesports) - 1/04/2
Fremantle Dockers: Nat Fyfe‘s heavily scrutinised shift forward will play key role in huge season for Freo
It‘s been discussed all summer and now it’s time to deliver. MARK DUFFIELD outlines the five keys to Nat Fyfe’s forward success.Necessity has become the mother of reinvention.
Nathan Fyfe is headed forward at Fremantle because his body is banged up and the Dockers have younger, quicker mids. The Dockers are also one tall shy in attack after the departure of Rory Lobb to the Bulldogs.
Fyfe’s transition will likely be the most analysed element of the Dockers and their 2023 fortunes, because no player holds a bigger key to unlocking Freo’s aspirations to climb from fifth position last year into flag contention.
So, can he do it? And how should he be measured?
These are the factors that will determine the dual-Brownlow medallist’s success.
Bring back the beast
Former coach Ross Lyon used to describe Fyfe the midfielder as a “massive competitive beast”. That mindset has never left him but his body’s ability to sustain that style of play has faltered over the past two years.
Brisbane champion Jonathan Brown often talked about judging himself as a forward on the number of contests he could get to and offer and, with Fyfe’s midfielder tank and natural competitive instincts, this will become a big part of what he provides in attack.
In his last Brownlow year of 2019, only Lachie Neale (379) and Clayton Oliver (359) won more contested ball than Fyfe’s 351. Neale played four more games than Fyfe, Oliver two more.
Fyfe will be aiming to get back to the contested ball best that made hima dual Brownlow Medallist. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Speaking on SEN, forward line coach Jaymie Graham said the contest would be a big part of Fyfe’s role.
“He has been able to compete,” Graham said. “We know he is good in the air and that is starting to come back into his game and create opportunity at ground level as well. You are going to have to do that as a forward.
“We have been really proud and rapt with the way he has gone about it. We won’t judge his game on goals. It will be around the way he competes and creates opportunities for our team, not just him kicking goals.”
Dual threat: in the air, on the ground
Fyfe’s previous stints as a forward have often come while taking a rest from the midfield and, while he has been a marking threat, he hasn’t always offered a lot at ground level.
If you look at how the Dockers will try to build their forward structure with Luke Jackson, Matt Taberner and Josh Treacy also in the mix, it will be crucial that Fyfe offers something at ground level as well. Graham said the Dockers had held significant discussions about how many tall forwards they can fit in.
“I think with Fyfey as well as his flexibility there is the fact that he has been able to get continuity,” he said. “We know that he has played as a mid for his whole career, we know that he can go up the field and be versatile and play multiple roles.
“You have got to get off good defenders and you have got to be able to get them in multiple ways. He has shown that. That (how many talls in attack) is definitely going to be a discussion around our balance and what it looks like.”
Improvement on the run
Lead-up marking seen in the pre-season matches is evidence of Fyfe looking to add more strings to his bow. Picture: James Worsfold/AFL Photos/via Getty Images
It is not often you can reasonably ask a 31-year-old veteran of 209 games who has won two Brownlows to get better, but there is evidence even over this pre-season that Fyfe is growing into and warming to his new role.
Graham says the Dockers have witnessed the growth already.
“I think the last couple of weeks he has actually added a bit to his game. It is not just the lead up mark which we saw for a lot of pre-season,” he said.
“He has got continuity with his body. He is getting some real confidence out of that and he has really embraced the forward role and he wants to get better. His growth mindset to improve in that area – we are seeing that get better and better.
“There is a clear shift in mindset which has been great for him. It is a completely new role. He has adjusted. He has had an open mind to it and we are seeing some fantastic signs. He is clearly going to be dangerous to play on.”
Drawing a crowd
Fyfe’s reputation will ensure a defensive crowd when up forward. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Even as an ageing forward, Fyfe’s presence and the danger he presents means that opponents are going to pay him attention.
He will draw a good opponent and, if that opponent is mobile and nimble enough to stay with him at ground level, the chances are he will struggle with him in the air. That means a lot of opponents are going to need help. And that in turn means, if he recognises it, there will be opportunities for him to create goal assists for unmarked teammates in space.
“He draws a bit of a crowd and he gets those arms out when he is leading. There are other ways you can impact as a forward and he is starting to work that out,” Graham said.
“As a mid you get tagged sometimes and you work out how to create space for others and the same as a forward. He will draw a good defender because as we know he is a good player. Hopefully he can make our forward line better.”
Graham said two last quarter goal assists for Taberner were indicative of how Fyfe could draw the ball, draw opposition heat and feed the ball to a teammate in space.
Kick straight, obviously
Fyfe has been working on his shaky goal kicking of previous seasons. Picture: Daniel Carson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Fyfe has worked hard on conversion, trying to quell the demons from 2021 when he kicked 6.21 as a midfielder drifting forward.
A lot of the shots were tough and a lot of the time he was tired but, it is worth noting, that it was the first time in his career he had kicked more points than goals.
It did get inside his head, however, and he has spent considerable time since trying to iron out kinks in his kicking.
The evidence of improvement pre-season is not overwhelming, but it is there.
He kicked 3.2 against Port Adelaide and one of the two he missed was from out wide on the boundary. The kicking action looks better with a lower ball drop and more momentum through the kick. Still, expect him to be nervous over early shots on goal this season.
DocT
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What a great article. Hey Big Footy, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT! Time to take a bowFremantle Dockers: Nat Fyfe‘s heavily scrutinised shift forward will play key role in huge season for Freo
It‘s been discussed all summer and now it’s time to deliver. MARK DUFFIELD outlines the five keys to Nat Fyfe’s forward success.
Necessity has become the mother of reinvention.
Nathan Fyfe is headed forward at Fremantle because his body is banged up and the Dockers have younger, quicker mids. The Dockers are also one tall shy in attack after the departure of Rory Lobb to the Bulldogs.
Fyfe’s transition will likely be the most analysed element of the Dockers and their 2023 fortunes, because no player holds a bigger key to unlocking Freo’s aspirations to climb from fifth position last year into flag contention.
So, can he do it? And how should he be measured?
These are the factors that will determine the dual-Brownlow medallist’s success.
Bring back the beast
Former coach Ross Lyon used to describe Fyfe the midfielder as a “massive competitive beast”. That mindset has never left him but his body’s ability to sustain that style of play has faltered over the past two years.
Brisbane champion Jonathan Brown often talked about judging himself as a forward on the number of contests he could get to and offer and, with Fyfe’s midfielder tank and natural competitive instincts, this will become a big part of what he provides in attack.
In his last Brownlow year of 2019, only Lachie Neale (379) and Clayton Oliver (359) won more contested ball than Fyfe’s 351. Neale played four more games than Fyfe, Oliver two more.
Fyfe will be aiming to get back to the contested ball best that made hima dual Brownlow Medallist. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Speaking on SEN, forward line coach Jaymie Graham said the contest would be a big part of Fyfe’s role.
“He has been able to compete,” Graham said. “We know he is good in the air and that is starting to come back into his game and create opportunity at ground level as well. You are going to have to do that as a forward.
“We have been really proud and rapt with the way he has gone about it. We won’t judge his game on goals. It will be around the way he competes and creates opportunities for our team, not just him kicking goals.”
Dual threat: in the air, on the ground
Fyfe’s previous stints as a forward have often come while taking a rest from the midfield and, while he has been a marking threat, he hasn’t always offered a lot at ground level.
If you look at how the Dockers will try to build their forward structure with Luke Jackson, Matt Taberner and Josh Treacy also in the mix, it will be crucial that Fyfe offers something at ground level as well. Graham said the Dockers had held significant discussions about how many tall forwards they can fit in.
“I think with Fyfey as well as his flexibility there is the fact that he has been able to get continuity,” he said. “We know that he has played as a mid for his whole career, we know that he can go up the field and be versatile and play multiple roles.
“You have got to get off good defenders and you have got to be able to get them in multiple ways. He has shown that. That (how many talls in attack) is definitely going to be a discussion around our balance and what it looks like.”
Improvement on the run
Lead-up marking seen in the pre-season matches is evidence of Fyfe looking to add more strings to his bow. Picture: James Worsfold/AFL Photos/via Getty Images
It is not often you can reasonably ask a 31-year-old veteran of 209 games who has won two Brownlows to get better, but there is evidence even over this pre-season that Fyfe is growing into and warming to his new role.
Graham says the Dockers have witnessed the growth already.
“I think the last couple of weeks he has actually added a bit to his game. It is not just the lead up mark which we saw for a lot of pre-season,” he said.
“He has got continuity with his body. He is getting some real confidence out of that and he has really embraced the forward role and he wants to get better. His growth mindset to improve in that area – we are seeing that get better and better.
“There is a clear shift in mindset which has been great for him. It is a completely new role. He has adjusted. He has had an open mind to it and we are seeing some fantastic signs. He is clearly going to be dangerous to play on.”
Drawing a crowd
Fyfe’s reputation will ensure a defensive crowd when up forward. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Even as an ageing forward, Fyfe’s presence and the danger he presents means that opponents are going to pay him attention.
He will draw a good opponent and, if that opponent is mobile and nimble enough to stay with him at ground level, the chances are he will struggle with him in the air. That means a lot of opponents are going to need help. And that in turn means, if he recognises it, there will be opportunities for him to create goal assists for unmarked teammates in space.
“He draws a bit of a crowd and he gets those arms out when he is leading. There are other ways you can impact as a forward and he is starting to work that out,” Graham said.
“As a mid you get tagged sometimes and you work out how to create space for others and the same as a forward. He will draw a good defender because as we know he is a good player. Hopefully he can make our forward line better.”
Graham said two last quarter goal assists for Taberner were indicative of how Fyfe could draw the ball, draw opposition heat and feed the ball to a teammate in space.
Kick straight, obviously
Fyfe has been working on his shaky goal kicking of previous seasons. Picture: Daniel Carson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Fyfe has worked hard on conversion, trying to quell the demons from 2021 when he kicked 6.21 as a midfielder drifting forward.
A lot of the shots were tough and a lot of the time he was tired but, it is worth noting, that it was the first time in his career he had kicked more points than goals.
It did get inside his head, however, and he has spent considerable time since trying to iron out kinks in his kicking.
The evidence of improvement pre-season is not overwhelming, but it is there.
He kicked 3.2 against Port Adelaide and one of the two he missed was from out wide on the boundary. The kicking action looks better with a lower ball drop and more momentum through the kick. Still, expect him to be nervous over early shots on goal this season.
Treacy is still freaking raw and young. No way you just leave Tabs out and Treacy having to battle himself. He would be the perfect third man foil for Jackson/Tabs and Fyfe lurking.
Honestly don't see which small forward's spot Treacy would be taking, if JL thinks it's too tall. Treacy should be getting games ahead of Banfield, Sturt regardless of their 'pace, height'. Treacy can do better then Banfield and his vaunted 'pressure'.
DocT
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Honestly don't see which small forward's spot Treacy would be taking Yep, and I don't think anyone else - coaching staff included - knows the answer either. I think the only way will be actual experimentation and risk-taking with the forward set-up in real games this season. There are too many variables for accurate prognostication. What this means is that there will be times that BF is tearing its hair out over selection etc because we don't know the questions that the coaches are trying to answer with their selections/setups. Everything is connected. In the Freo forward weather system you won't find a butterfly flapping its wings but a Banfield fart might create an unstoppable Cyclone that destroys the opposition defence. But BF won't smell the fart that set the whole system in motion.*
*If anyone's interested I also write wedding vows and am the one who designed Centrelink's customer service protocols.
Quazar
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lol!! This is some kooky-quality, what we got here: Centrelink, Banfield farts, wedding vows....butterfly effects that have a nice tie in with Cyclone = Treacy. This is delicious! Maybe not the visually distressing farts part...
Welcome to BigFooty......hairy pawpaws. I'll have some of that arsenic tea, or whatever you're having
Quazar
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Quazar
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You put this in the vent thread, but it ain't really no vent so I'll respond to it here. I think the Tippa thing is a valid discussion, we had a chance to offer something beyond what he returned back to at Essendon, but we didn't instill confidence in him enough to ensnare him.
Now I'm not saying that somehow, magically Tippa makes the big difference - but it speaks volumes of our general 'conservative' approach to addressing forward needs and the big hole that our general inability to score (heavily) keeps widening.
It's bordering on maddening now - we do have some decent personnel and no doubt we stuffed around with it yesterday and the method was poor, but the forward line before the ball was even bounced didn't exactly scream world beaters. It's such a frustrating part of this club and the Tippa thing is something I'd almost forgot. Yes we missed Walters, but he's aging and the other smalls can be hit & miss depending on the game.
I think we need to roll the dice on Sturt and Amiss and see if we can create some of that 'missing magic'. Need Driz back ASAP too
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Turns out the answer is "making opposition defenders giving away 50". It's a bold strategy but it did kick 40% of our goals...
