Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[Jim Prideaux]

You flogged the Roos by 100 points?
8 goals at a rate 12.5 per goal?

Think he means West Coast in 2023

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

At the end of 2018, Brisbane had a young team with plenty of talent but battled away to 5 wins.

That off season, with a good batch of kids already, they traded out of the first round and brought in McCarthy and Neale, filling spaces they needed to.

In 2019 they finished the h&a season in 2nd.



Hawks main needs are speed through the midfield and key position depth. Trade for Baz and get Battle in a a FA and the hawks are also filling spaces they need to. They also have a first round kp player in McCabe who had those around the club very excited before injury.

Sky's the limit with this team.






Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[Soggy2112]

Crows have zero decent young prospects, they are still reliant on the old brigade.
They are in for a world of hurt when Tex retires, as the other tall forwards there are complete trash.

Our old brigade was actively holding us back yesterday. Anyone who looked beyond the disposal numbers would have seen that.

Also, Pedlar, Rankine, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Murray, Curtin weren’t out there.

Soligo was good again.

A few of our younger talent had their colours lowered a little but that doesn’t mean they have no talent.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Our old brigade was actively holding us back yesterday. Anyone who looked beyond the disposal numbers would have seen that.

Also, Pedlar, Rankine, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Murray, Curtin weren’t out there.

Soligo was good again.

A few of our younger talent had their colours lowered a little but that doesn’t mean they have no talent.

Yeah it was probably a tongue in cheek comment but it’s clear Nicks isn’t the right man with his idea coaching wise to continually have poor structure, culture with backing the old players too much and not giving the keys to the youth enough. There’s no backbone to selection either.

I’d suggest more than 60% of that side would not be picked in the hawthorn team currently.

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Our old brigade was actively holding us back yesterday. Anyone who looked beyond the disposal numbers would have seen that.

Also, Pedlar, Rankine, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Murray, Curtin weren’t out there.

Soligo was good again.

A few of our younger talent had their colours lowered a little but that doesn’t mean they have no talent.

But Pedlar and Curtain Adelaide chose not to play in the AFL side.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I think winning 8 games and once again avoiding the elite end of the draft would be stupid,

Hawks, Pies, Swans, Cats and Eagles have all had long histories in the AFL era of either not finishing where the 'elite' talent is and/or not spending very long in those places.

Any guesses what else those 5 clubs all have in common??

 

[Art Vandelay_]

GWS @ UTAS
Richmond @ MCG
West Coast @ Optus
Geelong @ GMHBA
Freo @ UTAS
Collingwood @ MCG
Adelaide @ AO
GWS @ Canberra
Carlton @ MCG
Richmond @ MCG
North @ UTAS

L. W. L. L. L. L. W. L. L. W. W.

9-14 would be good progress.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Goal kickers, or kicks for goal?

Fogarty is usually a beautiful kick for goal, but one of the best goal kickers in the competition, he most certainly is not.

Since be 'broke out' in 2022, he's only just scraping into the top 30 for goals kicked in that time frame...and very likely to be overtaken by a fair few by the time the season ends.

I doubt he reaches the elite echelon. He's a tween forward.
Those can be good as 2nd or 3rd string forwards. Sadly once the The Texas Racist Walker retires he'll arguably be the no.1.

 

[Blue1980]

I wouldn’t be giving up as a crows supporter. Think it might just be a case of one step back to go two steps forward this year.

Seems that the older guys have dropped off a little and the next gen haven’t quite picked up the slack. Will still be a dangerous side this year and could easily rise up the ladder next year.

Hawks would be delighted with their progress, just need to keep adding talent to the list, but you can see a style and plan to how they want to play.

North way away from anything. They have lost leaders like Goldy, Cunnington and Ziebell and replaced them with no one and also lost Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

to an already weak defence. Clarko looks to be going through the motions too.

With 18 soon to be 19 sides, too hard to predict who is closer to a flag, could be none of them in the foreseeable future. But closest too being a finalist and becoming a contender, I’d still say Adelaide.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

L. W. L. L. L. L. W. L. L. W. W.

9-14 would be good progress.

9-14 would be the bare minimum. Hawthorn don’t go worse than that. With the possibility of genuinely 90% of those games being winnable.

 

[peetoo]

Will win 5 or 6 more minimum

 

[PCORF]

And I think the winner is Hawthorn.

 

[HairyO]

At the moment it is clearly us. But next year we could well see big things from the Roos when all those kids have a year under their belt, and they get more top picks.

I wonder if this time they decide to split Pick 1 and go for the best key forward and best key defender. Or just get their 17th midfielder.

Would they even bid on the best F/S or Academy kids from other teams or let them slip as well...

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Hawks, Pies, Swans, Cats and Eagles have all had long histories in the AFL era of either not finishing where the 'elite' talent is and/or not spending very long in those places.

Any guesses what else those 5 clubs all have in common??

Myth

 

[Soggy2112]

But Pedlar and Curtain Adelaide chose not to play in the AFL side.

Because our coach is an idiot.

 

[HairyO]

Because our coach is an idiot.

What are the rest of the selection committee doing? Just a bunch of Yes-men ?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Myth

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

At the end of 2018, Brisbane had a young team with plenty of talent but battled away to 5 wins.

That off season, with a good batch of kids already, they traded out of the first round and brought in McCarthy and Neale, filling spaces they needed to.

In 2019 they finished the h&a season in 2nd.



Hawks main needs are speed through the midfield and key position depth. Trade for Baz and get Battle in a a FA and the hawks are also filling spaces they need to. They also have a first round kp player in McCabe who had those around the club very excited before injury.

Sky's the limit with this team.






Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

Dear and McCabe will become big players for us over the next 2-3 years.

 

[smish]

Crows need a complete clean out of their coaching staff and to start over in that department.

Rachele looks like he's had the confidence coached out of him.
Curtin could very well request a trade to WCE at the end of this year and I don't think any supporters would begrudge him.

On paper, a young core of Curtin, Michalanney, Rachele, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Rankine, Fogarty is very good. Then there's Dawson in his prime, and other "solid" players like Jones, Hinge, Borlase, Butts.

Nicks seems to be coaching for his career which ironically is having the adverse effect - selections of Crouch, Laird in the midfield, and Smith I know a lot of crows supporters reckon is cooked.

The midfield reminds me of Hawthorn circa 2020. I was watching Box Hill this weekend and Ward, Hustwaite, Morrison are all depth players which would definitely add something to the crows midfield. Why not go after one of those types? Other young mids unable to crack into the midfield off the top of my head are Hobbs, Erasmus, Phillipou, Erasmus. Even Conor Nash

11

Conor Nash

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.8

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.1

5star

CL

0.3

2star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.2

2star

is a UFA they should have a crack at.

I think the crows are better than what they are. Nicks however is a massive fraud.

 

[Soggy2112]

Yeah it was probably a tongue in cheek comment but it’s clear Nicks isn’t the right man with his idea coaching wise to continually have poor structure, culture with backing the old players too much and not giving the keys to the youth enough. There’s no backbone to selection either.

I’d suggest more than 60% of that side would not be picked in the hawthorn team currently.

60% feels excessive.

Saturday was probably our worst performance since 2021. Our effort was incredibly poor. I don’t think though it suggests a big gap in quality between the two sides. I think it just shows in footy that if you’re not up for it and the other team is hungrier and willing to work then you will get exposed. I think the fact that we were still able to score 80 points from 41 entries shows that we weren’t completely outclassed, just out worked. I also really rate Sam Mitchell as a coach, he is clearly finding a way to work around Hawthorn’s weaknesses. The way the forward line is working at the moment without Lewis or another genuine key forward is really impressive.

However, and I said this before the game so it’s not just because we lost, Saturday was never going to be a legitimate reflection of where our youth is at.

We had Rankine, Thilthorpe, Murray, Worrell who are four of our most important young players out.

 

[Soggy2112]

Crows need a complete clean out of their coaching staff and to start over in that department.

Rachele looks like he's had the confidence coached out of him.
Curtin could very well request a trade to WCE at the end of this year and I don't think any supporters would begrudge him.

On paper, a young core of Curtin, Michalanney, Rachele, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Worrell, Rankine, Fogarty is very good. Then there's Dawson in his prime, and other "solid" players like Jones, Hinge, Borlase, Butts.

Nicks seems to be coaching for his career which ironically is having the adverse effect - selections of Crouch, Laird in the midfield, and Smith I know a lot of crows supporters reckon is cooked.

The midfield reminds me of Hawthorn circa 2020. I was watching Box Hill this weekend and Ward, Hustwaite, Morrison are all depth players which would definitely add something to the crows midfield. Why not go after one of those types? Other young mids unable to crack into the midfield off the top of my head are Hobbs, Erasmus, Phillipou, Erasmus. Even Conor Nash is a UFA they should have a crack at.

I think the crows are better than what they are. Nicks however is a massive fraud.

The way Nicks allowed Crouch and Laird to play on the weekend is a huge issue. Both are players who’s strength is meant to be in the contest, but are limited ball users.

Laird had 8 of 30 disposals contested, Crouch had 12 of 35. In a game where we struggled all day to get our hands on it and gain territory, but when we did go forward we scored fairly frequently.

Meanwhile, Schoenberg and Rachele struggled to get their hands on it all day. Collectively those two had 2 CBAs. Schoenberg’s most natural position is on ball and Rachele has been public in wanting to play on ball more. Makes no sense why we wouldn’t mix it up and chuck those two in there.

 

[Soggy2112]

What are the rest of the selection committee doing? Just a bunch of Yes-men ?

It’s a consistent trend that Nicks over-values players who he perceives are “hard workers” and is far too quick to drop players with talent (like Curtin or Pedlar) after a poor game or two.

It’s why a player like Dowling still hasn’t been selected despite being consistently in our best in the reserves.

 

[QuietB]

60% feels excessive.

Saturday was probably our worst performance since 2021. Our effort was incredibly poor. I don’t think though it suggests a big gap in quality between the two sides. I think it just shows in footy that if you’re not up for it and the other team is hungrier and willing to work then you will get exposed. I think the fact that we were still able to score 80 points from 41 entries shows that we weren’t completely outclassed, just out worked. I also really rate Sam Mitchell as a coach, he is clearly finding a way to work around Hawthorn’s weaknesses. The way the forward line is working at the moment without Lewis or another genuine key forward is really impressive.

However, and I said this before the game so it’s not just because we lost, Saturday was never going to be a legitimate reflection of where our youth is at.

We had Rankine, Thilthorpe, Murray, Worrell who are four of our most important young players out.

Adelaide have injuries, are a young side and they don't like travelling. Hawthorn are not big on travelling either yet.

Every chance this result gets flipped when Hawthorn visit Adelaide in late July.

 

[SSSSSS]

60% feels excessive.

Saturday was probably our worst performance since 2021. Our effort was incredibly poor. I don’t think though it suggests a big gap in quality between the two sides. I think it just shows in footy that if you’re not up for it and the other team is hungrier and willing to work then you will get exposed. I think the fact that we were still able to score 80 points from 41 entries shows that we weren’t completely outclassed, just out worked. I also really rate Sam Mitchell as a coach, he is clearly finding a way to work around Hawthorn’s weaknesses. The way the forward line is working at the moment without Lewis or another genuine key forward is really impressive.

However, and I said this before the game so it’s not just because we lost, Saturday was never going to be a legitimate reflection of where our youth is at.

We had Rankine, Thilthorpe, Murray, Worrell who are four of our most important young players out.

We took our foot off the throat mid way in the last quarter. Some real bruise free goals where we just let you transition too easily.

The first half was a complete shellacking. Crows kicked two goals from a Gatting ballesque lucky bounce and a dubious freekick.

 

[HairyO]

It’s a consistent trend that Nicks over-values players who he perceives are “hard workers” and is far too quick to drop players with talent (like Curtin or Pedlar) after a poor game or two.

It’s why a player like Dowling still hasn’t been selected despite being consistently in our best in the reserves.

Or maybe they arent doing what they are told and sent back to the SANFL to work on it.

Gunston talked about a game where he played for Box Hill and kicked 7 goals but each time he came to the bench was asked how many tackles he had laid - 0... because that is what he had been told to work on. The goal kicking he did just fine at, but he had to work on offensive pressure.

So a player can look like they are doing well to us, but the coach will be angry. Similar example is Scrimshaw getting a blast from Mitchell even though he had been taking marks and kicking out of D50 well, because he had been told to play more defensively.

Or maybe Nicks doesnt know what he is doing. Along with the rest of the selectors.