Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[BIGHAWK23]

I think the hardest part about watching us win 7 of the past 8 with the second youngest team in the comp is the knowledge that long term, we don’t have enough “top end talent” for it to actually mean anything.

Just need to find a way to somehow keep up the faith.

Orange font?

 

[Philhawk]

 

[Sixpence]

Orange font?

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

 

[Sphynx]

I think the hardest part about watching us win 7 of the past 8 with the second youngest team in the comp is the knowledge that long term, we don’t have enough “top end talent” for it to actually mean anything.

Just need to find a way to somehow keep up the faith.

Second youngest list*

Not second youngest team.

At least get your circle jerks correct.

You've fluctuated anywhere from 13th-17th the last 5-6 rounds.

 

[Kangaroosters]

Players 25+ who played on the weekend for each side:

Adelaide - Hinge, Dawson, Keys, Laird, O’Brien, Murphy, Himmelberg, Walker

North Melbourne - Xerri, Tucker, LDU, Fisher, Zurhaar, Shiels, Simpkin, Corr, McDonald, Dawson, Larkey, Pink

Hawthorn - Sicily, Meek, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Impey, Morrison, Jiath, Gunston, Chol, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Frost

Elite level youth to come in:
Adelaide - Thilthorpe, Curtin
North Melbourne - Wardlaw, McKercher, Duursma
Hawthorn - Ward

It’s no contest who the better side is now - but there is a reason to believe in all 3.

Adelaide need to fully commit to playing the kids
North need to improve their 26-30yo senior bracket
Hawks need to find another couple of elite level kids

 

[Philhawk]

Second youngest list*

Not second youngest team.

At least get your circle jerks correct.

You've fluctuated anywhere from 13th-17th the last 5-6 rounds.

Sorry, you’re right. Thanks for clarifying. That only makes it worse. I’m struggling to find a reason to keep watching.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Players 25+ who played on the weekend for each side:

Adelaide - Hinge, Dawson, Keys, Laird, O’Brien, Murphy, Himmelberg, Walker

North Melbourne - Xerri, Tucker, LDU, Fisher, Zurhaar, Shiels, Simpkin, Corr, McDonald, Dawson, Larkey, Pink

Hawthorn - Sicily, Meek, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Impey, Morrison, Jiath, Gunston, Chol, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Frost

Elite level youth to come in:
Adelaide - Thilthorpe, Curtin
North Melbourne - Wardlaw, McKercher, Duursma
Hawthorn - Ward

It’s no contest who the better side is now - but there is a reason to believe in all 3.

Adelaide need to fully commit to playing the kids
North need to improve their 26-30yo senior bracket
Hawks need to find another couple of elite level kids

25-29 (prime age)

Hawthorn - Meek, Sicily, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Impey, Jiath, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Chol, Morrison - 11

Adelaide - Hinge, Dawson, Keays, Murphy, Himmelberg, O’Brien - 6

North - LDU, Xerri, Tucker, Fisher, Zurhaar, Simpkin, Dawson, Larkey, Pink, McDonald - 10

30+
Hawthorn - Gunston - 1
Adelaide - Laird, Walker - 2
North - Shiels, Corr - 2

Top level youth to come in/just outside (24 and under)
Adelaide - Thilthorpe, Curtin
North - Wardlaw, McKercher, Duursma
Hawthorn - Ward, McCabe?

24 and under players (in the team from R16)
Hawthorn - Newcombe, Day, Watson, Weddle, Ginnivan, D’Ambrosio, Dear, MacDonald, Moore - 9

North - Sheezel, Powell, Scott, Comben, Ford, Curtis, Archer, Phillips, Taylor, Teakle, Stephens - 11

Adelaide - Rankine, Rachele, Berry, Sholl, Dowling, Soligo, Nankervis, Fogarty, Hamill, Keane, Michalanney, Murray, Cook, Taylor - 14

Average age & experience for the weekend (R16)
Hawthorn - 24.9 (89.7)
Adelaide - 24.5 (74.9)
North - 25.0 (82.2)

Top 10 for all 3 sides (R16)
Hawthorn - Newcombe, Moore, Sicily, Meek, Worpel, Day, Ginnivan, MacDonald, Jiath, Nash - (5 24/u - 5 25-29)

Adelaide - Rankine, Hinge, Rachele, Dawson, Fogarty, Keays, Berry, Laird, Walker, O’Brien - (4 24/u - 4 25-29 - 2 30+)

North - Sheezel, Zurhaar, Xerri, Tucker, Fisher, Comben, Curtis, Ford, Simpkin, Corr - (4 24/u - 5 25-29 - 1 30+)

From all of these metrics.

Adelaide are blooding youth, but the performers are still led by the experience, quality youth pieces and prime age movers, the concern is depth and high end talent with only a few standouts performance wise.

North similar with prime age movers and experience leading the way, quality youth performing, spread and depth a concern. Continue to bleed youth and smash the draft, trying to get handy experience to guide the youth and have them drive games & wins.

Hawthorn are being guided by experience (Sicily) and other role playing pieces. The drive and performance is coming from the youth (24/u) aswell as the prime age movers (25-26) especially.
Focus point is continuous depth building as the other sides to become a contender (every contender has depth), and continuing to bleed youth and pick best available talent, free agency/trades also key, being further ahead development wise to the other two sides.

The comparison seems pointless with Hawthorn further ahead in their development, North and Adelaide have talent to look forward to and a clear approach for coming seasons.

Adelaide - continue to bleed youth & draft top end talent
North - bleed youth & find experience 26+
Hawthorn - keep drafting top end talent to build whilst maintaining high performance (building depth)

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

North similar with prime age movers and experience leading the way, quality youth performing, spread and depth a concern.

Strange assessment, but perhaps influenced by your top 10 from the weekend? I'm not sure if you were trying to list the bests in order, but North's top 3 on the weekend were Xerri, Comben, Sheezel in that order. I would have Curtis next, but you could make arguments for Zurhaar or Tucker. Ford and Powell make up a top 8. You're stretching to find two more players who were "good", but it's not Simpkin and Corr. Probably Fisher and Archer?

Bigger picture LDU and Larkey (despite both being poor on Saturday) and Xerri are the only prime age players who consistently "lead the way". Simpkin and Zurhaar do occasionally.

The rest of those "prime age" and 30+ players are limited, or outright stopgaps.

I don't watch Hawthorn every week, but it's hard to see how their performance is being driven by youth more than North. I don't know who is 25-26 to in your list but Meek, Sicily, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Jiath, Scrimshaw, and Chol have all performed well in games I have seen.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Strange assessment, but perhaps influenced by your top 10 from the weekend? I'm not sure if you were trying to list the bests in order, but North's top 3 on the weekend were Xerri, Comben, Sheezel in that order. I would have Curtis next, but you could make arguments for Zurhaar or Tucker. Ford and Powell make up a top 8. You're stretching to find two more players who were "good", but it's not Simpkin and Corr. Probably Fisher and Archer?

Bigger picture LDU and Larkey (despite both being poor on Saturday) and Xerri are the only prime age players who consistently "lead the way". Simpkin and Zurhaar do occasionally.

The rest of those "prime age" and 30+ players are limited, or outright stopgaps.

I don't watch Hawthorn every week, but it's hard to see how their performance is being driven by youth more than North. I don't know who is 25-26 to in your list but Meek, Sicily, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Jiath, Scrimshaw, and Chol have all performed well in games I have seen.

Yeah

You clearly don't watch Hawthorn every week

Difference between performing well and driving performance

Day, Newk, Weddle, Ginnivan, Macdonald, Mckenzie, D'Ambrosio all driving high standards in most games

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Strange assessment, but perhaps influenced by your top 10 from the weekend? I'm not sure if you were trying to list the bests in order, but North's top 3 on the weekend were Xerri, Comben, Sheezel in that order. I would have Curtis next, but you could make arguments for Zurhaar or Tucker. Ford and Powell make up a top 8. You're stretching to find two more players who were "good", but it's not Simpkin and Corr. Probably Fisher and Archer?

Bigger picture LDU and Larkey (despite both being poor on Saturday) and Xerri are the only prime age players who consistently "lead the way". Simpkin and Zurhaar do occasionally.

The rest of those "prime age" and 30+ players are limited, or outright stopgaps.

I don't watch Hawthorn every week, but it's hard to see how their performance is being driven by youth more than North. I don't know who is 25-26 to in your list but Meek, Sicily, Worpel, Amon, Nash, Jiath, Scrimshaw, and Chol have all performed well in games I have seen.

This was based off the weekend yes.

But generally speaking it’s the prime age players, odd good game from an experienced player and then quality youth with Curtis, Sheezel, McKercher, Wardlaw. The end assessment is still my opinion with depth and spread of talent a concern, high end quality is fine, although you will clearly continue to draft best available. Good experience is a concern also, 26+.

Meek is 25, Worpel, Jiath, Nash and Scrimshaw all 25. Sicily 29, Amon 28? Chol 27.

Newcombe, Day, MacDonald, Ginnivan, Moore, Mackenzie, Weddle, D’Ambrosio etc are youth and consistently in the best few on the ground.

If it isn’t youth it’s 25-26 year olds with help from Impey, Amon, Chol, Sicily and Gunston, the youth is the driving factor.

 

[Sphynx]

North similar with prime age movers and experience leading the way, quality youth performing, spread and depth a concern. Continue to bleed youth and smash the draft, trying to get handy experience to guide the youth and have them drive games & wins.

How to say you watch footy, but prove you don’t.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

How to say you watch footy, but prove you don’t.

This was based off the weekend yes.

But generally speaking it’s the prime age players, odd good game from an experienced player and then quality youth with Curtis, Sheezel, McKercher, Wardlaw. The end assessment is still my opinion with depth and spread of talent a concern, high end quality is fine, although you will clearly continue to draft best available. Good experience is a concern also, 26+.

 

[Engimal v3]

North Melbourne

 

[BIGHAWK23]

How to say you watch footy, but prove you don’t.

All bow down to Sphynx

Nobody knows football more than him

Narcissistic fool

Such dismissal of others is why this thread has gone so south

 

[Sphynx]

This was based off the weekend yes.

But generally speaking it’s the prime age players, odd good game from an experienced player and then quality youth with Curtis, Sheezel, McKercher, Wardlaw. The end assessment is still my opinion with depth and spread of talent a concern, high end quality is fine, although you will clearly continue to draft best available. Good experience is a concern also, 26+.

Meek is 25, Worpel, Jiath, Nash and Scrimshaw all 25. Sicily 29, Amon 28? Chol 27.

Newcombe, Day, MacDonald, Ginnivan, Moore, Mackenzie, Weddle, D’Ambrosio etc are youth and consistently in the best few on the ground.

If it isn’t youth it’s 25-26 year olds with help from Impey, Amon, Chol, Sicily and Gunston, the youth is the driving factor.

Is it?

North’s best players by every ranking and metric this season, in order:

Sheezel
LDU
Xerri
Wardlaw
Powell
Simpkin
Comben


Who are these mature aged players driving when 2 of the top 4 are 19 year olds?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Is it?

North’s best players by every ranking and metric this season, in order:

Sheezel
LDU
Xerri
Wardlaw
Powell
Simpkin
Comben


Who are these mature aged players driving when 2 of the top 4 are 19 year olds?

Larkey clearly missing, Zurhaar still is albeit inconsistent, inconsistent performances but good at times from Corr, McDonald etc

Fisher also missing.

You have good top end talent (Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) but lack the depth and spread of talent, good middle aged players with LDU, Larkey, Xerri and guys like Fisher, Simpkin still some of your better players

 

[the big lebowski]

Hawthorn’s 2nd and 3rd leading goal kickers are new recruits. As is equal 4th if you count Gunston.

Hats off, that’s great recruiting.

 

[Sphynx]

Larkey clearly missing, Zurhaar still is albeit inconsistent, inconsistent performances but good at times from Corr, McDonald etc

Fisher also missing.

You have good top end talent (Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher) but lack the depth and spread of talent, good middle aged players with LDU, Larkey, Xerri and guys like Fisher, Simpkin still some of your better players

Again, they are missing because they haven’t been good this year.

Sheezel is our best player.

LDU, Xerri and Wardlaw clearly the next 3 this year.

Would be like me prattling on about Bruest, Frost and Amon being in Hawthorns best few players this year

This is surely some sort thinly veiled troll. You can’t be so far off with these sorts of views.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Again, they are missing because they haven’t been good this year.

Sheezel is our best player.

LDU, Xerri and Wardlaw clearly the next 3 this year.

Would be like me prattling on about Bruest, Frost and Amon being in Hawthorns best few players this year

This is surely some sort thinly veiled troll. You can’t be so far off with these sorts of views.

Larkey is your leading goal kicker with almost 30 goals, will probably kick 40+ and he’s not one of your best?

Please make it make sense…

Sheezel is a jet, and the other three good, but the next bunch are Simpkin, Larkey, Zurhaar and probably fisher. Even Tucker has played some half decent games.

Breust has been sub most of the year, Frost has been pretty good as a stop gap and role playing key defender, does what he needs to, and Amon has been good.

You are missing the fact North have been a much worse side, Hawthorns bottom 5-10 would be up there just after your best.

You’re missing the point which is why you’re confused about it.

Norths team performance has come from good top end youth (Sheezel, Wardlaw) right? But the other performers are the odd good game from experience (Corr, McDonald etc), and your middle age prime movers in (LDU, Xerri, Larkey, Zurhaar, Simpkin etc).

But generally speaking it’s the prime age players, odd good game from an experienced player and then quality youth with Curtis, Sheezel, McKercher, Wardlaw.

Quality youth
Prime aged players
Older guys
Spread of youth ️
Depth ️


The assessment was the top end 1-5 youth players are good, it’s the depth, the spread of youth and consistency from the older guys which are the problem.

Especially the spread of youth and depth which is a serious issue, especially the lack of development capacity shown by Norths football department.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Larkey clearly missing, Zurhaar still is albeit inconsistent, inconsistent performances but good at times from Corr, McDonald etc

Fisher also missing.

Larkey has had a down year, goalless in 3 of his last 5 games. Fisher has had 2 or 3 passable games, his most recent ones. Zuurhar is wildly inconsistent.
Corr and McDonald, you're taking the piss.
I'm sure you're spot on about the Hawks but you're way off when it comes to North. Do you even watch them play?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Larkey has had a down year, goalless in 3 of his last 5 games. Fisher has had 2 or 3 passable games, his most recent ones. Zuurhar is wildly inconsistent.
Corr and McDonald, you're taking the piss.
I'm sure you're spot on about the Hawks but you're way off when it comes to North. Do you even watch them play?

Zurhaar and Larkey both top 2 in your goals, averaging 1.6 and 1.9 a game each. They haven’t been “good” but in terms of your side, they’ve been “good”. Definitely in your top handful or so. Which is partially the issue.

McDonald and Corr have had games where they’ve played okay, they definitely aren’t good tho, but again they’re the inconsistent experienced players making life difficult for North.

The issue is the experience, the development and coaching, and spread and depth of youth. The top quality youth and the middle aged players but also consistency and effort has been

I watch a fair amount of footy, try to get all games every weekend and have for a while, also VFL and underage footy.

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Is it?

North’s best players by every ranking and metric this season, in order:

Sheezel
LDU
Xerri
Wardlaw
Powell
Simpkin
Comben


Who are these mature aged players driving when 2 of the top 4 are 19 year olds?

Well that’s not accurate at all.

Certainly not by “every ranking and metric at all”.

Coaches votes has it
LDU
Xerri
Simpkin
Larkey
Sheezel
Powell
Wardlaw
Corr

SEN and 3AW player of the year in order currently from North

LDU
Simpkin
Larkey

And Fantasy has it
Sheezel
Xerri
LDU
Fischer
Scott

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Again, they are missing because they haven’t been good this year.

Sheezel is our best player.

LDU, Xerri and Wardlaw clearly the next 3 this year.

Would be like me prattling on about Bruest, Frost and Amon being in Hawthorns best few players this year

This is surely some sort thinly veiled troll. You can’t be so far off with these sorts of views.

It would be nothing like that as Bruest is by no “metric or rating” in our best 20 players this year.

If you’re going to sprout observations as facts… you better check they are right before hand.

 

[Sphynx]

It would be nothing like that as Bruest is by no “metric or rating” in our best 20 players this year.

If you’re going to sprout observations as facts… you better check they are right before hand.

Tell me where McDonald is mate?

19th in AFL ratings.

 

[Sphynx]

Well that’s not accurate at all.

Certainly not by “every ranking and metric at all”.

Coaches votes has it
LDU
Xerri
Simpkin
Larkey
Sheezel
Powell
Wardlaw
Corr

SEN and 3AW player of the year in order currently from North

LDU
Simpkin
Larkey

And Fantasy has it
Sheezel
Xerri
LDU
Fischer
Scott

So the most irrelevant metrics possible, 2 of which are reliant almost exclusively on performances in our only win or closest losses?

Are we really arguing here that the likes of Sheezel or Wardlaw have not been 2 of our best this year ffs

Or that Comben or Xerri haven’t?

Jesus.