Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[nelk boys]

Laughable.

You currently do not have a backline. All below par, as users of the footy and footballers in general. Logue, Lmac, Zieball, McKay, Corr and Hall are all getting games.

Laughable to think your on the same spread of talent as hawks and crows.

 

[Sphynx]

You currently do not have a backline. All below par, as users of the footy and footballers in general. Logue, Lmac, Zieball, McKay, Corr and Hall are all getting games.

Laughable to think your on the same spread of talent as hawks and crows.

I would describe that as upside personally.

This is the same Hawks side that is currently 16th and got dispatched by 11 goals yesterday by Gold Coast, right?

Just checking.

 

[SSSSSS]

Per CBA is a dumb statistic, yet you go all in on a bunch of meaningless statistics and say that Day is showing a hell of alot more than the others in the middle?

Per stoppage statics show a players ability to win the ball, all totals mean is generally the player has spent more time in there.

Soligo and Pedlar are the two best stoppage players at Adelaide by % of contested contests won, it's just that Pedlar only plays 10% of his TOG there and Soligo only plays around 23%.

The challenge is to continue that win rate % while tripling his CBA's.

If he can, you are talking about an Oliver/Laird/Taranto clearance player who all average a similar clearance win % on higher volume.

Day would not be starting the amount of center square stoppages if Laird and Dawson were in his side.

I'm not arguing who is going to be the better mid. That's all up in the air.

I'm arguing that Soligo/Pedlar have not shown the ability to be a consistent full-time mid because...they haven't? It's not a knock on them. The opportunity clearly isn't there with who is ahead.

You can pull up as much of the bullshit per TOG%, per CBA numbers to extrapolate whatever you would like but it is just that. An extrapolation.

The clear fact is that players like Day, Newcombe, LDU etc have shown they can hack it as full time midfielders. Until proven otherwise it's a projection in hope.

 

[SSSSSS]

I would describe that as upside personally.

This is the same Hawks side that is currently 16th and got dispatched by 11 goals yesterday by Gold Coast, right?

Just checking.

Youngest side in the comp without their captain and by far their best player, post-bye slump and away to a side who play their home deck well?

Disappointing but not all that unexpected.

 

[Sphynx]

I'm not arguing who is going to be the better mid. That's all up in the air.

I'm arguing that Soligo/Pedlar have not shown the ability to be a consistent full-time mid because...they haven't? It's not a knock on them. The opportunity clearly isn't there with who is ahead.

You can pull up as much of the bullshit per TOG%, per CBA numbers to extrapolate whatever you would like but it is just that. An extrapolation.

The clear fact is that players like Day, Newcombe, LDU etc have shown they can hack it as full time midfielders. Until proven otherwise it's a projection in hope.

Where's your definition for midfielder start?

Soligo attends 7 CBA's a game on average.

Which is around the same as Josh Ward.

 

[SSSSSS]

Where's your definition for midfielder start?

Soligo attends almost 7 CBA's a game on average.

Which is around the same as Josh Ward.

And I'd argue the exact same that Ward hasn't shown the same level of consistent midfield ability that the aforementioned have.

 

[nelk boys]

I would describe that as upside personally.

This is the same Hawks side that is currently 16th and got dispatched by 11 goals yesterday by Gold Coast, right?

Just checking.

Young teams will always struggle to consistently perform. Especially without their captain.

The difference is that we have beaten the lions and the saints. Two teams well above us in age and experience.

Where is the upside in North's defence? That's another three years of development needed.

 

[Sphynx]

And I'd argue the exact same that Ward hasn't shown the same level of consistent midfield ability that the aforementioned have.

I guess that must apply to guys like Taylor Adams, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Jack Macrae, Bailey Smith etc who all average well under 10 CBA's per game and similar %'s attended to Soligo.

 

[JackFlash]

Originally I first thought it was North, but I now think how is this even a question? Adelaide will probably play off in a GF within a couple of years. The Hawks and Roos won't see any finals action before 2030.

 

[SSSSSS]

I guess that must apply to guys like Taylor Adams, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Jack Macrae, Bailey Smith etc who all average well under 10 CBA's per game and similar %'s attended to Soligo.

Except they have all shown the same level of consistent midfield ability that the aforementioned have...

If we are going by Centre clearances per CBA attended for potential midfield ability are we predicting Bowes from Geelong forming into an elite midfielder...

He's a ****ing potato.

 

[H00t]

I guess that must apply to guys like Taylor Adams, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Jack Macrae, Bailey Smith etc who all average well under 10 CBA's per game and similar %'s attended to Soligo.

These guys have all shown the ability to be strong consistent ball winners in the middle.

Just because they aren’t doing that this year doesn’t mean you can just ignore the past.

Once Soligo, Pedlar, Ward and C-Mac x2 do it for a full season or multiple seasons we will know they can do it.

 

[Sphynx]

These guys have all shown the ability to be strong consistent ball winners in the middle.

Just because they aren’t doing that this year doesn’t mean you can just ignore the past.

Once Soligo, Pedlar, Ward and C-Mac x2 do it for a full season or multiple seasons we will know they can do it.

I'd add Day to that list then.

He hasn't shown he's a strong consistent ball winner.

His CP% is very much on the low side for the role he is playing.

He's mainly an outside midfielder at the moment a little bit like Jack Macrae at the moment funnily enough.

There's a difference between high disposal numbers and being a ball winner.

 

[SSSSSS]

I'd add Day to that list then.

He hasn't shown he's a strong consistent ball winner.

His CP% is very much on the low side for the role he is playing.

He's mainly an outside midfielder at the moment.

He averages 1 less contested possession on average than Newcombe. 2 less than LDU. 1 less than Butters who is probably the best mid in the comp at the moment.

He's wasted on the coalface. He's a first receiver who Worpel feeds (our primary contested ballwinner). Newcombe being the 2nd and Nash playing on the defensive side of stoppage.

He averages more than Captain Simpkin who I'd argue is your ballwinner at the coalface. Bit embarrassing that.

 

[Sphynx]

Except they have all shown the same level of consistent midfield ability that the aforementioned have...

If we are going by Centre clearances per CBA attended for potential midfield ability are we predicting Bowes from Geelong forming into an elite midfielder...

He's a ******* potato.

I wouldn't bring up Bowes, because he averages 2.9 CBA's per game.

That's irrelevant to someone like Soligo who is in there almost twice as much.

There is a level I'd cut it off, and it's about 20%

 

[SSSSSS]

I wouldn't bring up Bowes, because he averages 2.9 CBA's per game.

That's irrelevant to someone like Soligo who is in there almost twice as much.

There is a level I'd cut it off, and it's about 20%

I think 20% is far too low. 20% you are looking at guys like Papley, Daniel, Zorko, Doherty, Bailey etc.

35-40% would fill me with a lot more confidence in terms of how much responsibility is being placed in the player for duties in the centre. 60% + is bonafide first choice midfielder tier.

 

[Sphynx]

He averages 1 less contested possession on average than Newcombe. 2 less than LDU. 1 less than Butters who is probably the best mid in the comp at the moment.

He's wasted on the coalface.

He averages more than Captain Simpkin who I'd argue is your ballwinner at the coalface. Bit embarrassing that.

"Only" 1.

Day (9.8) (37%)
Simpkin (9.6) (44%)
LDU (12.7) (45%)
Butters (11.1) (41%)


I don't get why you are being so defensive.

Merrett is another with under 37% CP ratio's.

Rozee averages 35% CP ratio but has 500 meters gained.


Steele Sidebottom another, Jordan Dawson another.


He's just that type of player.

He's not a coal face, ball winning midfielder.

 

[SSSSSS]

"Only" 1.

Day (9.8) (37%)
Simpkin (9.6) (44%)
LDU (12.7) (45%)
Butters (11.1) (41%)


I don't get why you are being so defensive.

Merrett is another with under 37% CP ratio's.

Rozee averages 35% CP ratio but has 500 meters gained.


Steele Sidebottom another, Jordan Dawson another.


He's just that type of player.

He's not a coal face, ball winning midfielder.

You have such strange hills to die on over 4% and 1.3 of a contested possession (against the best mid in the comp) to discount Day as a midfielder...

And we are in agreement. Day isn't a coalface mid...I never said he was? You don't drive a Ferrari on the jobsite.

That's where you put your Worpel's and Simpkin's.

 

[Sphynx]

You have such strange hills to die on over 4% and 1.3 of a contested possession (against the best mid in the comp) to discount Day as a midfielder...

A bit like the "remove North from the thread" because you beat Brisbane a few weeks ago and crumbled to Gold Coast without Sicily.

It's not like we haven't come close in the last month despite being without LDU and Simpkin for almost all of it.


Adelaide should have no problems with a 20 goal win this week based on the last few pages...


Personally, I'm looking forward to Wardlaw and LDU playing their first game together.

 

[SSSSSS]

A bit like the "remove North from the thread" because you beat Brisbane a few weeks ago and crumbled to Gold Coast without Sicily.

It's not like we haven't come close in the last month despite being without LDU and Simpkin for almost all of it.


Adelaide should have no problems with a 20 goal win this week based on the last few pages...


Personally, I'm looking forward to Wardlaw and LDU playing their first game together.

I don't think it's that far fetched to suggest that there is a significant outlier among the three discussed sides in this thread.

It's the team that has won 8 games in the last three seasons. And has gone into 2023 with the oldest/most experienced list of the three discussed sides...

It's not boding well.

 

[Sphynx]

I don't think it's that far fetched to suggest that there is a significant outlier among the three discussed sides in this thread.

It's the team that has won 8 games in the last three seasons. And has gone into 2023 with the oldest/most experienced list of the three discussed sides...

It's not boding well.

I think we need to strike the Hawthorn "youngest side on paper" premiership cup each week, as you all seem to be revelling in it.

Hawthorn's average age was 24 year 0 months this week.

North's was 24 years 10 months last week.

A side with Goldstein, Ziebell, Shiels, Greenwood, Corr in it.....

With Hall and McDonald smattering in their shit in there throughout the season.


Just senior bodies who are nowhere near the best each week for the most part.

Our highest ranked players on the ground? An 18 year old, a 20 year old, a 22 year old and a 23 year old.


Everyone that isn't a complete football illiterate (mostly the media, because it's clearly grinding Hawks fans) understands these guys are easily replaceable and are actually some of the ones holding the side back.

An 18 year old is probably the favourite for our B&F at the moment.

Goldstein is the only one requiring a bit of effort to replace, there's plenty of rucks around the league to recruit...

 

[SSSSSS]

I think we need to strike the Hawthorn "youngest side on paper" premiership cup each week, as you all seem to be revelling in it.

Hawthorn's average age was 24 year 0 months this week.

North's was 24 years 10 months last week.

A side with Goldstein, Ziebell, Shiels, Greenwood, Corr in it.....

With Hall and McDonald smattering in their s**t in there throughout the season.


Just senior bodies who are nowhere near the best each week for the most part.

Our highest ranked players on the ground? An 18 year old, a 20 year old, a 22 year old and a 23 year old.


Everyone that isn't a complete football illiterate (mostly the media, because it's clearly grinding Hawks fans) understands these guys are easily replaceable and are actually some of the ones holding the side back.

Wait...so all this time the very same North supporters in this thread who kept lamenting over Hawthorn's over performance and attributed it to an over reliance on our 'experienced players' (despite the fact that many were played out of position to accommodate our younger brigade and were unceremoniously shipped off in the subsequent trade periods) in 2021 and 2022 was the sole difference in our respective on field results was...bullshit?

Which one is it? We've culled our experienced players who were holding us back and are holding up pretty well.

If your young kids could play they would be playing. Just like ours are.

There is one common denominator to Howe/Shiels clogging up a list.

 

[Sphynx]

Wait...so all this time the very same North supporters in this thread who kept lamenting over Hawthorn's over performance and attributed it to an over reliance on our 'experienced players' (despite the fact that many were played out of position to accommodate our younger brigade and were unceremoniously shipped off in the subsequent trade periods) in 2021 and 2022 was the sole difference in our respective on field results was...bullshit?

Which one is it? We've culled our experienced players who were holding us back and are holding up pretty well.

Why are you asking me the question?

Should I just start bringing up Dom's points for you to answer?

You are the one that is trying to claim North's list is an ageing one and Hawthorn's is a the younger one.

Anyone with half a brain that looks past the average age on paper each week understands where the key drivers are coming from with our side. Unless you think losing Liam Shiels, Hugh Greenwood and Jack Ziebell in the next 18 months are going to be catastrophic?

Hawthorn has done really well to get value from the draft where they have. Namely Newcombe, but also Day.

 

[SSSSSS]

In regards to the laughable Champion data ranking points, here are the top 10 averages for players who have played more than 7 games (half a season).

1. Goldstein (35)
2. LDU
3. Simpkin
4. Phillips
5. Zuurhaar
6. Greenwood (31)
7. Sheezel
8. Larkey
9. Ziebell (32)
10. Shiels (32)

Followed by LMac (29) at 11th. Just realised Phillips made the cut with 10. He's had a good month. Grim viewing though with how many over 30s there are in a team that has won 2 games.

The idea that North aren't relying on the older blokes according to CD is completely wrong and just vibes

Crows

1) Dawson
2) Walker (33)
3) ROB (28)
4) Laird (30)
5) Rankine
6) Jones
7) Smith (31)
8) Sloane (33)
9) Keays
10) Filthy

Followed by Rachele at 11.

Hawks

1) Newcombe
2) Sicily (28)
3) Worpel
4) Day
5) Nash
6) Moore
7) Amon (28)
8) Hardwick
9) Lewis
10) Scrimshaw

Weddle just misses out at 11.


FWIW I'll put this in bold...I find Champion Data/Player ratings (whatever the **** it is) rating points to be bullshit but old mate swears by it.

 

[matey]

Hawks last win only a few weeks back against a top 4 side close to the winter solstice ……. and mostly on the back of its youth. Norf’s last win daylight savings was still around ffs! Unbelievable some Norf fans are on here trying to argue/debate how other sides youth are worse. Embarrassing!

 

[SSSSSS]

Hawks last win only a few weeks back against a top 4 side close to the winter solstice ……. and mostly on the back of its youth. Norf’s last win daylight savings was still around ffs! Unbelievable some Norf fans are on here trying to argue/debate how other sides youth are worse. Embarrassing!

North players are unique in that they get better when they don't play.

See this thread during preseason. Boy oh boy do we get to hear about some superstars!