Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[BIGHAWK23]

I made some comments around Soligo and Rachele in particular last week

Looking back on them, extremely naïve and short sighted

Both should be full time mids/ mid forwards over the next 12-24 months

Apologizes Crows fans who rightfully contested

Your club is in a good place, and hopefully a trajectory we follow, unlike...

 

[SSSSSS]

I think you mean one of the worst.

He win's 9% of the CBA's he attends.

Jake Stringer is by far the best on decent volume.

And considering Nash is in 68% of your CBA's, it means a hell of alot......

He's not there to win the clearance...He's there to facilitate other players to win the clearance through blocks or stopping the opposition from getting one.

Hawthorn had the highest number of successful clearances when Nash was attending the CBA - more than any of our other midfielders (IIRC it was one of the highest in the game of any player, let alone Hawks). It doesn't mean he generated the clearance himself (which he still averages 4.3 a game) but it's a team sport and he is forming a part of a formidable clearance team.

It's like calling Makelele a shit midfielder because he doesn't kick enough goals or get enough assists.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think you mean one of the worst.

He win's 9% of the CBA's he attends.

Jake Stringer is by far the best on decent volume.

And considering Nash is in 68% of your CBA's, it means a hell of alot......

Nash is in there as a defensive mid to block, mind opposition best mid and protect our other mids. Day plays more outside than in at CBAs. We want the ball in his hands exiting the stoppage as he has a burst of speed.

 

[Sphynx]

He's not there to win the clearance...He's there to facilitate other players to win the clearance through blocks or stopping the opposition from getting one.

Hawthorn had the highest number of successful clearances when Nash was attending the CBA - more than any of our other midfielders (IIRC it was one of the highest in the game of any player, let alone Hawks). It doesn't mean he generated the clearance himself (which he still averages 4.3 a game) but it's a team sport and he is forming a part of a formidable clearance team.

It's like calling Makelele a s**t midfielder because he doesn't kick enough goals or get enough assists.

You lot are so triggered.

I responded to Dom's completely fabricated statistic.

Yep - Absolutely formidable:

9th for Center clearances
17th for Stoppage clearances
16th for Total clearances


I'm amazed Hawthorn have lost a game this year going by the last 10 pages.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Once again it was your fellow poster who compared Tex & Sicily!

Both Thilthorpe & Fogarty are quality & will be ready to take over from Tex. Also, have father & son Welsh from next season.

Hawks posters seem to struggle with the concept of keeping some older players around to lead the way...

Crows fans seem to think you get players to become an all time great by wanting it to be the case.

And yes, the struggle is real, we've all been watching decades of sustained success and a few false dawns.

I mean why would we learn from that, and have had more experience learning from it than any other fan base?

Oh that's right, it's because we've done it often enough all the way through to winning flags.

 

[toomanysquibs]

You lot are so triggered.

I responded to Dom's completely fabricated statistic.

Yep - Absolutely formidable:

9th for Center clearances
17th for Stoppage clearances
16th for Total clearances


I'm amazed Hawthorn have lost a game this year going by the last 10 pages.

It's amazing too that North get further and further into this debate, despite not being able to win any games pretty much.

At what point is the conversation over?

Adelaide fans include a bunch of 27 and over players they include in their youth brigade. Their best mids and forward are nearing retirement age. North don't win games yet want to be included somehow.

Hawks fans compare player talent over and over again, yet no-one is rating any of them.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I think you mean one of the worst.

He win's 9% of the CBA's he attends.

Jake Stringer is by far the best on decent volume.

And considering Nash is in 68% of your CBA's, it means a hell of alot......

I'm not sure you're qualified to engage in the conversation at this point.

 

[Sphynx]

It's amazing too that North get further and further into this debate, despite not being able to win any games pretty much.

At what point is the conversation over?

Adelaide fans include a bunch of 27 and over players they include in their youth brigade. Their best mids and forward are nearing retirement age. North don't win games yet want to be included somehow.

Hawks fans compare player talent over and over again, yet no-one is rating any of them.

Probably when you can climb more than 1 single ladder position above the side you think is completely out of the conversation.

 

[SSSSSS]

You lot are so triggered.

I responded to Dom's completely fabricated statistic.

Yep - Absolutely formidable:

9th for Center clearances
17th for Stoppage clearances
16th for Total clearances


I'm amazed Hawthorn have lost a game this year going by the last 10 pages.

We are equal 2nd (equal with Port and behind Brisbane) in the comp for centre clearance differentials. Probably the best statistic to determine clearance dominance...A measure that Nash is directly responsible along with his teammates.

We beat our opposition in centre clearances more often than not. Not too bad for such a young side with a sub 70 games average....

Our work around the ground in general stoppages is a bit weaker (Reeves still gets outbodied a bit too easily by more seasoned rucks around the ground), but that isn't what is being measured with Nash's contribution to the centre bounces.

One ladder position hides the significant difference between our sides.

We are a SIGNIFICANTLY YOUNGER/INEXPERIENCED Team with double the wins. It's a bit worrisome that North can't keep up after an extra few years at the bottom.

 

[SSSSSS]

This was from May. Would love to see the updated statistic that Dom was referring to.

The secret superstar-stopper: Irish Hawk's stunning breakout burst

Conor Nash has enjoyed a meteoric rise under Sam Mitchell, forcing opponents to take notice

www.afl.com.au

6th in the league and amongst very good company. That's good craic.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Probably when you can climb more than 1 single ladder position above the side you think is completely out of the conversation.

I can do that too - you mean the team that's won twice as many games without a single quality player on their list?

Also nice work on your stats. Very few people could get it that wrong.

 

[Sphynx]

We are equal 2nd (equal with Port and behind Brisbane) in the comp for centre clearance differentials. Probably the best statistic to determine clearance dominance...A measure that Nash is directly responsible along with his teammates.

We beat our opposition in centre clearances more often than not. Not too bad for such a young side with a sub 70 games average....

Our work around the ground in general stoppages is a bit weaker (Reeves still gets outbodied a bit too easily by more seasoned rucks around the ground), but that isn't what is being measured with Nash's contribution to the centre bounces.

One ladder position hides the significant difference between our sides.

We are a SIGNIFICANTLY YOUNGER/INEXPERIENCED Team with double the wins. It's a bit worrisome that North can't keep up after an extra few years at the bottom.

Why do you keep stating this?

I don't think a single North supporter is currently "worried" with our position.

You need to get out a bit more if you are so worried constantly about an opposition club as you keep saying.

 

[SSSSSS]

Why do you keep stating this?

I don't think a single North supporter is currently "worried" with our position.

You need to get out a bit more if you are so worried constantly about an opposition club as you keep saying.

I'm a supporter of footy first. A team perennially at the bottom isn't good for footy. Should end up with 4, maybe 5 wins this year so at least that will be an improvement.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Crows fans seem to think you get players to become an all time great by wanting it to be the case.

And yes, the struggle is real, we've all been watching decades of sustained success and a few false dawns.

I mean why would we learn from that, and have had more experience learning from it than any other fan base?

Oh that's right, it's because we've done it often enough all the way through to winning flags.

What complete gibberish that had nothing to do with my post you quoted.

I'm comfortable with how my side is rebuilding & only a biased Hawks fan would think you are more advanced in the rebuild.

 

[SSSSSS]

What complete gibberish that had nothing to do with my post you quoted.

I'm comfortable with how my side is rebuilding & only a biased Hawks fan would think you are more advanced in the rebuild.

Crows definitely one year ahead (which makes sense, given we were still top 4 when the Crows finally dropped below the 8). Still think you guys are maybe 1/2 trade/draft periods from being the finished article (at which point hopefully you would have some of those tweener flank/mids moving into a full time midfield role or you have recruited/drafted a full time mid). I'd say Hawks are anywhere between 2-4 draft/trade periods before being the finished article (if we pick the eyes out, 2, realistically 3-4).

North should be ahead (and should be at a similar developmental stage to the Crows) given they dropped below the 8 while the Hawks were top 4 as well, but Crows talent identification and development well ahead (even with McAsey being a bust). They'll have another massive hand this year so they have all the chances in the world to catch up.

 

[matey]

Amusing among non Hawk fans and the general media. After the Lions win how good is Sam’s direction, sticking by his convictions, cleaning the list up with quality kids that are getting games in now, not being stuck behind your Tom/O’Meara/Sheils …… then after a bad loss they are back onto they haven’t got the experience/leaders blah blah blah. It’s one way or the other and it shouldn’t change on a weekly basis.

Of course the gap between our best and worst is huge at the minute but I am extremely confident that when the large group of the quality kids that we have come through together and reach 50-100 games Hawks will be top 4 again! And it won’t be a linear rise it will happen quickly when it clicks in.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I'm comfortable with how my side is rebuilding & only a biased Hawks fan would think you are more advanced in the rebuild.

Hooray for you, your struggle to stand by your own words (struggle to understand tosh you wrote) and your straw man argument,

it's a real credit to you.

 

[Sphynx]

Crows definitely one year ahead (which makes sense, given we were still top 4 when the Crows finally dropped below the 8). Still think you guys are maybe 1/2 trade/draft periods from being the finished article (at which point hopefully you would have some of those tweener flank/mids moving into a full time midfield role or you have recruited/drafted a full time mid). I'd say Hawks are anywhere between 2-4 draft/trade periods before being the finished article (if we pick the eyes out, 2, realistically 3-4).

North should be ahead (and should be at a similar developmental stage to the Crows) given they dropped below the 8 while the Hawks were top 4 as well, but Crows talent identification and development well ahead (even with McAsey being a bust). They'll have another massive hand this year so they have all the chances in the world to catch up.

There's nothing to say any club is ahead at the moment.

Neither club is a genuine contender right now, which is all that matters.

I'm comfortable we are amassing some key pieces which will render a season where Hawthorn or Adelaide finished a few places ahead of us in the bottom 8 absolutely pointless.

On the flip side, Hawthorn or Adelaide might clearly move ahead in the next 2-3 years.


The question is, who is closer to a flag? I think you would find those answers vary between a lot of different neutral supporters and it's not dependant on the current ladder position at all.

 

[SSSSSS]

There's nothing to say any club is ahead at the moment.

Neither club is a genuine contender right now, which is all that matters.

I'm comfortable we are amassing some key pieces which will render a season where Hawthorn or Adelaide finished a few places ahead of us in the bottom 8 absolutely pointless.

On the flip side, Hawthorn or Adelaide might clearly move ahead in the next 2-3 years.


The question is, who is closer to a flag? I think you would find those answers vary between a lot of different neutral supporters and it's not dependant on the current ladder position at all.

Hawthorn and Adelaide at 35 wins a piece from 2019-2023 (I chose 2019 as this is when all three sides entered the bottom 8 as a collective).

In the same period North have amassed 21 wins (almost half of them being from the 2019 season). With the exception of 2020 (Adelaide won the spoon on percentage with equal points to North), neither side have fallen below North.

That first statement is pure copium and is up there with Comben > Lewis in terms of pure delusion.



Hawthorn and Adelaide are so far ahead of North it isn't funny anymore (both with younger lists to boot!). This thread is just getting sad.

 

[Sphynx]

Hawthorn and Adelaide at 35 wins a piece from 2019-2023.

In the same period North have amassed 21 wins (almost half of them being from the 2019 season). With the exception of 2020 (Adelaide won the spoon on percentage with equal points to North), neither side have fallen below North.

That first statement is pure copium and is up there with Comben > Lewis in terms of pure delusion.
View attachment 1723320


Hawthorn and Adelaide are so far ahead of North it isn't funny anymore. This thread is just getting sad.

You aren't so far ahead of North it isn't funny.

You are 1 single ladder position and an entire 5.46% in percentage.

Luckily, our win-loss 4 years ago has absolutely no relevance as to where we might be as a side in 2025.

 

[SSSSSS]

You aren't so far ahead of North it isn't funny.

You are 1 single ladder position and an entire 5.46% in percentage.

Luckily, our win-loss 4 years ago has absolutely no relevance as to where we might be as a side in 2025.

We have double the wins.
Younger side.
Futures so bright

We've been well ahead of North in every single season since 2019 and that continues in 2023. Sure it might not be relevant in 2025 but unless North magically learn to develop players I can't see that changing. Hard to find proper developmental coaches when you're carrying the messiah's overly inflated salary.

North have had all the talent in the world fall to their laps befit of their ladder position but the promise of potential is nothing if it isn't realised. I look forward to it though. It's been too long since we've been able to recreate our matches in the 70s at the pointy end

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hooray for you, your struggle to stand by your own words (struggle to understand tosh you wrote) and your straw man argument,

it's a real credit to you.

The irony of your post... given your response had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

Gather English is not your 1st language...

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Adelaide fans include a bunch of 27 and over players they include in their youth brigade.

this has not happened, but it is ironic coming from, after hawks tried come in here and boast about getting Amon

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think you mean one of the worst.

He win's 9% of the CBA's he attends.

Jake Stringer is by far the best on decent volume.

And considering Nash is in 68% of your CBA's, it means a hell of alot......

It was this. Not that.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You lot are so triggered.

I responded to Dom's completely fabricated statistic.

Yep - Absolutely formidable:

9th for Center clearances
17th for Stoppage clearances
16th for Total clearances


I'm amazed Hawthorn have lost a game this year going by the last 10 pages.

lol