Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[matey]

North players are unique in that they get better when they don't play.

See this thread during preseason. Boy oh boy do we get to hear about some superstars!

Who have we moved on from JHF and TT!

 

[hawkman]

I’m impressed last few years you are on here during Nov-Feb ……. but it’s June!!!!! With only 2 wins very impressive

North didn't play on the weekend so not surprised to see a reappearance

 

[SSSSSS]

Who have we moved on from JHF and TT!

Comben > Lewis was good value for a while. I remember I had to keep googling who tf he was.

At least he has played a few games this season. Looked more of a Kosi type than a Lewis type that's for sure. All the best to his recovery.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Did Will Day steal Sphynx girl?

 

[Soggy2112]

Per CBA is such a dumb metric.

Day is absolutely braining him in terms of output in the midfield. Day is an out out established midfielder. Soligo (from the eye test and as the stats indicate) is a forward who is slowly getting integrated in the midfield rotations.

Would be happy to revisit once(if) Soligo becomes a full time centre square mid.

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It’s also Day’s fourth year, and Soligo’s second.

I think Day is and will be a better player than Soligo, but throwing around stat comparisons in this instance is pretty meaningless.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s weird how in this thread guys like Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo have apparently not shown consistent ability in the midfield, meanwhile a guy like Mackenzie (who had 1 CBA today) has.

Most young midfielders spend more time forward/back or on the wing before moving into full time mid time. It’s a natural progression. Look at Butters and Rozee at Port.

If Hawks fans ever start a thread like this one, on the back of MacKenzie having below average disposals, disposal efficiency and playing most of his footy as a HFF then you can come back to us, I guess.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Nor having better youth. Tex carries that forward line as much as Sicily carries our back line.

The big difference is we have Fogarty & Thilthorpe who will be ready to take over when he retires.

Who replies Sicily? DGB...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Keays and Laird were your top 2 clearances winners, with 10 and 6. Dawson 5, Sloane 4.

Without Keays and Laird you don’t get close, just like most weeks.

Lol ridiculous!

Apart from Sloane who is not a major influence, none of our midfielders are retiring anytime soon.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lol ridiculous!

Apart from Sloane who is not a major influence, none of our midfielders are retiring anytime soon.

Just as well.

 

[Roby]

Hawks last win only a few weeks back against a top 4 side close to the winter solstice ……. and mostly on the back of its youth. Norf’s last win daylight savings was still around ffs! Unbelievable some Norf fans are on here trying to argue/debate how other sides youth are worse. Embarrassing!

There up and about after arguably Hawthorn's worst performance of the year. This is the kind of thread this is.

 

[Roby]

The big difference is we have Fogarty & Thilthorpe who will be ready to take over when he retires.

Who replies Sicily? DGB...

It's not like Sicily is 30. He could still play for another 6 years.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It's not like Sicily is 30. He could still play for another 6 years.

Lol, I wasn't the one who compared him Tex.

Ironic comment given your fellow supporters think we can't count Dawson as he is too old!

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Per CBA is a dumb statistic, yet you go all in on a bunch of meaningless statistics and say that Day is showing a hell of alot more than the others in the middle?

Per stoppage statics show a players ability to win the ball, all totals mean is generally the player has spent more time in there.

Soligo and Pedlar are the two best stoppage players at Adelaide by % of contested contests won, it's just that Pedlar only plays 10% of his TOG there and Soligo only plays around 23%.

The challenge is to continue that win rate % while tripling his CBA's.

If he can, you are talking about an Oliver/Laird/Taranto clearance player who all average a similar clearance win % on higher volume.

Day would not be starting the amount of center square stoppages if Laird and Dawson were in his side.

Nash is the best centre clearance mid when you look at the % he is in compared to how often we win it.

They put that stat out a few weeks ago...

Means nothing, its just a cool stat.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Why are you asking me the question?

Should I just start bringing up Dom's points for you to answer?

You are the one that is trying to claim North's list is an ageing one and Hawthorn's is a the younger one.

Anyone with half a brain that looks past the average age on paper each week understands where the key drivers are coming from with our side. Unless you think losing Liam Shiels, Hugh Greenwood and Jack Ziebell in the next 18 months are going to be catastrophic?

Hawthorn has done really well to get value from the draft where they have. Namely Newcombe, but also Day.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Lol, I wasn't the one who compared him Tex.

Ironic comment given your fellow supporters think we can't count Dawson as he is too old!

Dawson and Sicily are the two best players in both Adelaide and Hawthorns side, I'd say Sicily's influence is more and he's playing in a key position/taller role where it takes longer for players to develop, hence most teams have key position players who are good and 22+

The point is that, Keays, Sloane those two aren't getting midfield time at Hawthorn, hell I'd suggest Sam Mitchell wouldn't even give them consistent games.

And they've been playing really good roles for you this year, both were in your top rung of clearance winners & so was Laird who is in his late 20s.

Your midfield is very much the department lacking, you have some good prospects, yet to make their mark.

You have alot of good pieces over the ground, i love Michalanney down back, Jones is a handy winger, Fogarty is a gun, and we know how good Rankine is.

But form for a whole team, form of a side isn't an indictment on youth. Because it is taking into account alot of experience you have.

It's good to watch Adelaide, they're playing well, but this thread is about youth and funnily enough made when Adelaide were shit coming off a grandfinal loss and not much else being absolutely tripe. And by an Adelaide fan no less.

 

[Soggy2112]

If Hawks fans ever start a thread like this one, on the back of MacKenzie having below average disposals, disposal efficiency and playing most of his footy as a HFF then you can come back to us, I guess.

Hadn’t seen that one haha, bit of carry on there .

I still feel like you’re missing the point though, Mackenzie will be a midfielder (barring injury/poor development), as will Soligo, Pedlar barring injury will be as well, but he’s been pretty injury prone so far in his career so remains to be seen if his body can handle it. Rachele the only one I’d question, but that’s more of a Toby Greene situation IMO, where his best role may be forward even though he’d make a good mid.

I’m not sure if it was in this thread or a different one but a while back a Crows poster posted a comparison of Butters and Rozee’s midfield/HFF splits over they years and the similarities were obvious.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Dawson and Sicily are the two best players in both Adelaide and Hawthorns side, I'd say Sicily's influence is more and he's playing in a key position/taller role where it takes longer for players to develop, hence most teams have key position players who are good and 22+

The point is that, Keays, Sloane those two aren't getting midfield time at Hawthorn, hell I'd suggest Sam Mitchell wouldn't even give them consistent games.

And they've been playing really good roles for you this year, both were in your top rung of clearance winners & so was Laird who is in his late 20s.

Your midfield is very much the department lacking, you have some good prospects, yet to make their mark.

You have alot of good pieces over the ground, i love Michalanney down back, Jones is a handy winger, Fogarty is a gun, and we know how good Rankine is.

But form for a whole team, form of a side isn't an indictment on youth. Because it is taking into account alot of experience you have.

It's good to watch Adelaide, they're playing well, but this thread is about youth and funnily enough made when Adelaide were s**t coming off a grandfinal loss and not much else being absolutely tripe. And by an Adelaide fan no less.

Lol, our midfield is lacking after taking it up to the Pies once again & sitting in the top 8 with the 2nd youngest list. We hardly have any players apart for Sloane & Tex who will retire any time soon.

We have plenty of quality young midfielders who I have pointed out to you plenty of times... but you keep up your ignorance because unlike the Hawks we held on to some our mid age players to guide them.

You will never take off your brown & yellow blinkers...

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Lol, our midfield is lacking after taking it up to the Pies once again & sitting in the top 8 with the 2nd youngest list. We hardly have any players apart for Sloane & Tex who will retire any time soon.

We have plenty of quality young midfielders who I have pointed out to you plenty of times... but you keep up your ignorance because unlike the Hawks we held on to some our mid age players to guide them.

You will never take off your brown & yellow blinkers...

Your midfield youth is lacking yes.

Your midfield currently is Laird, Dawson, Sloane, Keays with rotations from Rachele, Soligo, Pedlar.

Pedlar is talented, hes an absolute bull, explosive and a big left foot kick, he's damaging forward of centre and looks good, but he hasn't made his mark yet and is just doing a role atm.

Rachele is a star, could be as someone said a Toby Greene scenario where he's just so good forward even if he'd be a good midfielder, could be a FWD-MID or MID-FWD but won't ever be a full midfielder.

Soligo is also good, he's tough as nails, he's a little pest but he's clean, and he moves well around stoppages and knows his way around goals, has good skills by hand and foot.

Your clearances and CBA numbers vs Collingwood were
Laird 22 (30 yo this year)
ROB 22 (28 yo this year)
Dawson 21 (26 yo)
Keays 21 (26 yo)
Sloane 13 (33 yo)
Thilthorpe 5 (21 yo this year)
Pedlar 3 (21 yo)
Soligo 1 (20 yo)
Rachele 0 CBAs (20 yo)

Clearance numbers:
Keays 10
Laird 6
Dawson 5
Sloane 4
Soligo 3
Pedlar 2
ROB 2

27 clearances from players whose average age is 28.6

5 clearances from players whose average age is 20.5

Overall from that group
32 clearances and the average age was 24.55

Dominated by players who are older.
A thread about youth.

For the season:
Laird 6.6 clearances
Sloane 4.1 clearances
Dawson 3.4 clearances* (midfield change)
ROB 3 clearances

Your top 4 are all older, Dawson the youngest at 26 but you have soon to be 30 year old Rory Laird & 33 year old Sloane + ROB who is also 28.

Soligo averages 2.8 clearances, Keays 2.7, Berry 2, Pedlar 1.5, Rachele 1.4

Hell Rankine averages more than all those players (bar Keays/Soligo ^) and he does it all inside fwd 50 with 2.1 clearances (1.9 stoppage).

You have some quality young mids with Pedlar, Soligo & Rachele. But with two of those (Pedlar & Rachele) it is likely they have a pretty heavy forward rotation, Soligo could def play more midfield out of those 3 however.

I won't bother mentioning ours, we have way more (proven & unproven).

Didn't mention it but others did, Tex has been elite up forward this year and he'll retire soon. But you have some nice key prospects with Thilthorpe & then Fogarty.

And this is nothing to be against them because again, i like your youth but you make it really hard when you talk like this..

 

[Danger in Texas]

Obviously Day and Newcombe are on another level currently, compared to our young mids, but I’m comfortable with how our handover is progressing

Sloane is on his last legs and should be gone from the midfield very soon (most Crows supporters on here don’t even want him in the CBAs now), while Keays is another that, although not old, has potential to be gone past in the near future (shown by not getting consistent mid minutes to start the year). Rachele and Pedlar will become bigger staples of the midfield rotation ahead of those two hopefully sooner rather than later, blind Freddy can tell they’re talented and do good work in the middle, but haven’t got the fitness levels required just yet. Soligo will likely be eased into Laird’s role over the next few years, as well

It’s likely we need one more young quality midfield piece, either through trade, draft or somebody already on our list, to make a mark and confirm that we have some quality future midfield depth, but just because we’re ‘reliant’ on guys like Dawson and Laird right now, doesn’t mean the future isn’t bright

In reality, our list isn’t really comparable with the other two sides this thread is about, now

 

[SSSSSS]

It’s also Day’s fourth year, and Soligo’s second.

I think Day is and will be a better player than Soligo, but throwing around stat comparisons in this instance is pretty meaningless.

Once again I'm not knocking Soligo. I rate him.

The stat comparison was just to highlight the posters ridiculous comment that Soligo and Day were comparable as midfielders because of some arbitrary measurement that suited his narrative based off a small percentage of CBAs.

It's clear as day (pun not intended) that Day in 2023 is a legitimate centre square mid. Soligo isn't (yet), hence the disparity in stats in Day's favour (at least for midfield metrics). If you were to highlight scores and tackles inside 50, Soligo would be well ahead of Day (expectedly so, given their difference in roles in 2023).

 

[Roby]

Lol, I wasn't the one who compared him Tex.

Ironic comment given your fellow supporters think we can't count Dawson as he is too old!

I don't really care what others have said I'm just responding to your post.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't really care what others have said I'm just responding to your post.

Then don't cut into a conversation if you can't even be bothered reading the post I quoted & was responding to!

 

[toomanysquibs]

The big difference is we have Fogarty & Thilthorpe who will be ready to take over when he retires.

Who replies Sicily? DGB...

Umm....how old is Sicily, and how old is Tex?

How many games has DGB played?

Kidding yourself if you think Fogerty and Tilthorpe are as good as Walker was at the same age. Tex had kicked 60+ goals by his fourth year, was drawing the best Key defender. All time club leading goal kicker, playing at close to his peak and drawing the best defender(s) even this year.

Those aren't shoes you can fill right away, and Sicily is a lot further out from retirement.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Umm....how old is Sicily, and how old is Tex?

How many games has DGB played?

Kidding yourself if you think Fogerty and Tilthorpe are as good as Walker was at the same age. Tex had kicked 60+ goals by his fourth year, was drawing the best Key defender. All time club leading goal kicker, playing at close to his peak and drawing the best defender(s) even this year.

Those aren't shoes you can fill right away, and Sicily is a lot further out from retirement.

Once again it was your fellow poster who compared Tex & Sicily!

Both Thilthorpe & Fogarty are quality & will be ready to take over from Tex. Also, have father & son Welsh from next season.

Hawks posters seem to struggle with the concept of keeping some older players around to lead the way...

 

[Sphynx]

Nash is the best centre clearance mid when you look at the % he is in compared to how often we win it.

They put that stat out a few weeks ago...

Means nothing, its just a cool stat.

I think you mean one of the worst.

He win's 9% of the CBA's he attends.

Jake Stringer is by far the best on decent volume.

And considering Nash is in 68% of your CBA's, it means a hell of alot......