MRP / Trib. Whitecross offered a week - But justice, nay commonsense, actually sanity prevails.

[MightyHawks]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

I suspect he will get off.

Unlike all the other cases which were thrown out, he was standing still. I'm sure the definition of a bump, insomuch as it implies voluntarily propelling ones body towards anothers, rather than being in the unavoidable path.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afl.com.au%2FPortals%2F0%2Fafl_docs%2Fafl_hq%2FPolicies%2FTribunal_Booklet_2010.pdf&ei=dfKET6--FMGoiAfb2YnXBw&usg=AFQjCNEOmpsy09rv8P2j4HJRvJrN2hKDKw
Rough conduct
It is a Reportable Offence to intentionally, recklessly or negligently engage in rough conduct against an opponent which in the circumstances is unreasonable.WhiteX has used less force than Selwood so the level of force WhiteX used must be reasonable
bumping
Without limiting the above, the Player Rules provide that a player will be guilty of rough conduct where in the bumping of an opponent (whether reasonably or unreasonably) he causes forceful contact to be made with any part of his body to an opponent’s head or neck and instead of bumping, the player had a realistic alternative to:
a) contest the ball; or b) tackle the opponent.
He couldn't tackle Selwood as Selwood had his head down and was running straight at him. He couldn't contest the ball as Selwood had it
Even if the preceding paragraph does not apply, a player may still be guilty of rough conduct if his conduct was unreasonable in the circumstances. In determining whether any bump was unreasonable in the circumstances, without limitation, regard may be had to:
■■ whether the degree of force applied by the person bumping was excessive for the situation;Selwood was moving faster than WhiteX so any force WhiteX may or may not have used was not exceesive for the situation
■■ whethertheplayerbeingbumpedwasactivelyinvolvedinthe passage of play;Yes he was
■■ whether the player being bumped would reasonably be expected to influence the contest;Yes
■■ thedistancetheplayerapplyingthebumphasruntomake contact;Couldn't be less distance
■■ whether an elbow is part of the contact;No elbow ■■ whether the player bumping jumps or leaves the ground to
bump; orNo
■■ Whether the player being bumped is in a vulnerable position or could reasonably expect the contact.He had to expect there could be contact as he hadn't looked to see where he was going
In the interests of player safety, the purpose of the rule dealing with high bumps is to reduce, as far as practicable, the risk of head injuries to players and this purpose needs to be kept firmly in mind by all players and will guide the application of the rule.

 

[Pessimistic]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

After the article where Selwood admitted intentionally doing it it is madness

 

[Henry Jr]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Without limiting the above, the Player Rules provide that a player will be guilty of rough conduct where in the bumping of an opponent (whether reasonably or unreasonably) he causes forceful contact to be made with any part of his body to an opponent’s head or neck and instead of bumping, the player had a realistic alternative to:
a) contest the ball; or b) tackle the opponent.

WhiteX had the free kick. Play had stopped so there was NO option to either contest the ball nor tackle the opponent.

 

[MightyHawks]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

WhiteX had the free kick. Play had stopped so there was NO option to either contest the ball nor tackle the opponent.

That's right Henry. I think there is the winning argument.

 

[hawker11]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

That's right Henry. I think there is the winning argument.

I don't think that is the winning argument, as it could be used to suggest he didn't have any of the 3 options.

This was a split second collision - the whistle had only just been blown and no player would have known which way the free was going.

The winning argument IMO is the fact that there was an unrealistic amount of time for Whitecross to make a conscious decision beyond standing up and bracing himself for any oncoming traffic.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

One day Selwood will break his neck charging head-first at players and be left a paraplegic. Not the first time I've said that.

He should then sue the AFL Commission and whoever else he can think of for encouraging his behaviour by directing that free kicks be awarded to players that endanger themselves.

 

[Davo23]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Personally I would of preferred the club copped a massive fine and took a big swing at the MRP (Adrian) because it's a joke and needs to be called to account.

I'm saying goodbye to Whitex for the next couple of weeks because quite frankly our lawyers (representatives) suck at this whole tribunal stuff because I can't for the life of me remember the last time they got someone off.

The club makes the decision to challenge; the lawyers have to work with the restrictions of the rules and the attitude of the Tribunal, the limitations on evidence and inabilty to use precedent to contest a charge.

And I've never met you, but our lawyers are smarter than you!


.

 

[Brishawk]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

The club makes the decision to challenge; the lawyers have to work with the restrictions of the rules and the attitude of the Tribunal, the limitations on evidence and inabilty to use precedent to contest a charge.

And I've never met you, but our lawyers are smarter than you!


.

Smart though they may be, they aren't effective and based on the arguments they make, don't seem to understand the system.

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Whitecross gets 2 weeks for sure now.

And if we take it to court enjoy a sh1t fixture next year. The AFL are never wrong and you never really win against them, even when you think you win.

Ridiculous suspension, but ridiculous to challenge. Hopefully Hodge is back for West Coast.

You think its possible to make it worse than this year?

 

[Off The Couch]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

The club makes the decision to challenge; the lawyers have to work with the restrictions of the rules and the attitude of the Tribunal, the limitations on evidence and inabilty to use precedent to contest a charge.

And I've never met you, but our lawyers are smarter than you!


.

And your right - you don't know me so I don't see the reason for you making it personal.

Our record of challenges at the tribunal speaks for itself. It does seem though and I have no problem with you proving your smarter than me than showing evidence that contradicts that but some other clubs seem to have more success.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Good on your club for fighting this and he should get off as it is a rubbish report

Who ever is handling his defense only needs to show the Waite collision from round 1 (Exhibit A your Honor)

 

[Davo23]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

And your right - you don't know me so I don't see the reason for you making it personal.

Our record of challenges at the tribunal speaks for itself. It does seem though and I have no problem with you proving your smarter than me than showing evidence that contradicts that but some other clubs seem to have more success.

If you think can do better, go for it.

However, there's just no need to post defamatory comments about them on this site.

.

 

[grizzlym]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Good on your club for fighting this and he should get off as it is a rubbish report

Who ever is handling his defense only needs to show the Waite collision from round 1 (Exhibit A your Honor)

I didn't think precedence was permitted.

 

[Off The Couch]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

If you think can do better, go for it.

However, there's just no need to post defamatory comments about them on this site.

.

Are you serious - with some of the stuff that gets posted on here and your getting personal and labelling my comments defamatory because I said I thought they suck.

I have obviously hit a sore spot - so I apologise if I have offended you, one of your family members or one of your brethren.

 

[Brishawk]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

I didn't think precedence was permitted.

That's correct. Only a robust legal system can accommodate precedence

Out of interest, do you know if you can show footage from the laws of the game DVD they send out to clubs at the start of the year? Are reportable offences covered in that? Can't imagine any of them show someone getting run into as been culpable.

 

[grizzlym]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

That's correct. Only a robust legal system can accommodate precedence

This isn't a legal system, let alone a quasi legal system. It's more akin to appealing a parking fine or the like.

 

[Brishawk]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

This isn't a legal system, let alone a quasi legal system. It's more akin to appealing a parking fine or the like.

Opinions are about the only evidence you can submit, whether it be legal, expert or even popular. I think we need to get an online poll going and submit it as supporting evidence that the contact was 'accidental' as per the dictionary definition as supported by the overwhelming majority of football fans on big footy.

EDIT: We should actually employ an English Language expert to argue the meaning of the words because 90% of the tribunal's decisions are based on the interpretation of the definition of words.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Showing past incidents as a comparison is not allow which adds to the bullshit that is the MRP and tribunal.

I wonder why that might be? And that stupid rule has cost hawthorn players about 15 wks of undeserved suspensions...

 

[grizzlym]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

Opinions are about the only evidence you can submit, whether it be legal, expert or even popular. I think we need to get an online poll going and submit it as supporting evidence that the contact was 'accidental' as per the dictionary definition as supported by the overwhelming majority of football fans on big footy.

EDIT: We should actually employ an English Language expert to argue the meaning of the words because 90% of the tribunal's decisions are based on the interpretation of the definition of words.

It's a sad state of affairs, isn't it? You can have the best legal brains arguing a case, but the narrow parameters of Anderson's petty bi-laws just over-rides all of that. I know a journo who privately expresses an opinion that they don't need people on the actual panel, merely a computer that analyses the footage then applies Adrian's Byzantine laws to each case. Because it's simply categorising incidents then following the directives that have been laid out - there is nothing interpretive or analytical about it.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

These sort of things you appeal to make a bit of noise and hope that it's listened to for the future. The chances of getting off are remote. Look at it as an investment for the future.

If Whitey doesn't get off, it will prove my belief that the AFL and it's systems are ridiculously disjointed from the expectations of the players / members / fans they serve.

Will contemplate turning up on the weekend in a brown and gold netball skirt with bib and AD mask should Whitecross' appeal fail

But I'm happy to be proved wrong. Infact I challenge the tribunal to prove me wrong.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

If Whitey doesn't get off, it will prove my belief that the AFL and it's systems are ridiculously disjointed from the expectations of the players / members / fans they serve.

I think people already admit to feel this way. I think rolling the dice is stupid and unnecessary when we know what the result will be.

 

[Paul007]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

If Whitey doesn't get off, it will prove my belief that the AFL and it's systems are ridiculously disjointed from the expectations of the players / members / fans they serve.

It's almost like they don't give a rats about the fans who pony up their hard earned to keep this whole show going and who expect, and deserve, a fairly adjudicated game.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

If I was Whiteness i would just roll up with an invoice for 150 dollars to the MRP for wasting my time. If nothing else it would make headlines.

 

[Bayer_]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

I think people already admit to feel this way. I think rolling the dice is stupid and unnecessary when we know what the result will be.

Not knowing how the tribunal functions, there is the possibility they will review the incident based on its merits, and not according to the ridiculous activation points.

But seriously, if Andy D doesn't take notice of this incident, and act to prevent it occurring in future, he has no regard for this game, and you could only wish something befell him to make him stand down for a better man.

 

[grizzlym]

Re: Whitecross offered a week - And the Hawks challenge a patently absurd charge

I'm in Southbank right now and a Fatima type event is unfolding.

The sky is darkening and a flock of swallows is flying out of AA's arse, we might just get another miracle.