Who Goes, Who Stays?

[BenF]

Personally, I don't think Hargrave or Minson should be in our side.

Roughead has already surpassed Will IMO, and why not play Everitt?

The lack of games Everitt has received over the past two years astounds me.

 

[Gooka]

TBFB, that leaves us with no depth and a few low draft picks. And in compromised drafts, that will screw us for years...

Why? We're getting 2 very good young kids in straight away. Midfielders who will probably debut next year.

No point keeping loads of 'depth' players. We need to improve our best 22 (and yes, we'd need a strong 26 or so to allow for injuries) - but having a stronger list from numbers 27+ doesn't aid the cause in getting us to the flag. If they don't have the potential to be in our best 22, bin them.

 

[bullish23]

Wallis, Liber, Howard and Tutt will play AFL next year but we can't expect them to dominate.

Totally agree. Many on here seem to think Wallis and Libba will be our saviours. Unusual for first year players to make an impact straight away.

Hargrave for me is the big trade bait. I think Everitt could come in and play a similar role and do it more effectively. I think we could still get a bit for Shaggy.

I have been thinking this for some time. Hargrave seems to play a nothing role for a senior player. Doesn't take a key forward or provide a lot of dash off half back. Can't remember him kicking a goal this year either. Why not try Everitt in this role. What I will say in his defence, O'keffe had a very quiet 2nd semi, was Hargrave his direct opponent?

 

[Godzilla!]

Hargrave isn't going anywhere. He plays his role and is a good stopper. He is a great kick and can play on talls and smalls. But most of all he has composure under pressure which is vital in that part of the ground.

I like Everitt, but do not see him being able to play in defense on the players Hargrave can take. He has the size, but is slower and not as agile, and his decision making and disposal is 2nd rate, hence not being in the team. I can see potential as a CHF because he is big, can take a grab, and can kick 60m goals.

If you have seen Wallace play then you shouldn't be too surprised to see him line up in round 1 if it happens.

 

[comrade]

Hargrave isn't going anywhere. He plays his role and is a good stopper. He is a great kick and can play on talls and smalls. But most of all he has composure under pressure which is vital in that part of the ground.

Is this the same Hargrave who repeatedly bombs away under the slightest bit of pressure?

He has had a shocking year and his penchant for panic is almost cowardly.

 

[Rookie]

Needs assessment time guys

Firstly, pace. PACE dammit, PACE. and Skills.
We've got a plethora of handy inside players who don't have the best skills. Cross, Boyd, Addison, Picken, Ward. Neither Higgins or Giansiracusa are quick and Murphy and Gilbee will start to slow from here on in. With Harbrow leaving we begin to look even more one-paced and it's really only Cooney and Griffen who are left with explosive pace and creativity. We need more run and pace.

St Kilda brought in Faren Ray and Brett Peake - neither of them renowned as great footballers - but each one has done a job and added pace and run. People are throwing up Tambling, Jetta, Djerruka type players, and they may be on to something. If a decent player like that was available, awesome. The types who may be on the outer at another club, the Tenace, McMahon type players who probably aren't AFL footballers, don't interest me that much, but who knows if you've got a Brett Peake or a Kane Tenace on your hands? If we can't get a Tambling / Jetta / bigger named player, I still really think we need to take a punt on someone else and add some pace into our team. Better if they're silky-skilled, but it's going to be a risk, and the player is likely to be struggling at his current team e.g. Ray, and we're unlikely to be thrilled about him. But horses for courses, our midfield is one-paced and we need pace.

Travis Johnstone? Patrick Vespremi? Justin Sherman? Matt Rosa? None of these options really excite me, but you know, it's about plugging a need.

The other need is a small forward. I'd prefer a small, crumbing, hard-chasing player as I feel that's what we're lacking. But I'm not sure who is on the market. McKinley might fill a need seeing we desperately need more forward options, but... I'm not sure if he's the answer. Could provide valuable goal scoring opportunities alongside Hall?

A trade like Rosa + McKinley for a combination of Hill / Hargy / Stack / third rounder could plug two needs, and give us two young players who may improve and provide us with lots of good service. It doesn't really excite me but it's a possibility, and considering I envisage a big clean-out, I feel we need one or two ready-made players.

When you're calculating who is leaving, remember that Johnson and Eagleton were on the veterans list. Whether or not the '99 boys in Murphy, Giansiracusa, Gilbee, and Hargy are eligible in '11, I'm not sure. I think two of them will be, but if not, we can't really count Johnson and Eagleton as losses.
I'd cut deeper than this, but the in's and outs will look something like this:

Retire: Johnson, Akermanis, Hahn, Eagleton.
Leave: Harbrow
Delist: Callan, Thorne, two of Markovic, Mulligan, Boumann (I'd keep Boumann personally)
Close to the edge but one more year: Tiller, Stack

Although that looks like a lot of turn around, you've got:

In: Moles, Hooper, Panos? upgrades. I'd upgrade Panos and if it came to it, I'd keep him over Boumann.
In: Libba Jr, Wallis.

My concern is that those in's don't really fill the needs I listed earlier, so trading Hill, Stack, etc for Rosa or McKinley might be a go. Hoping better options emerge..

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

I've been thinkng the same wian. Two years ago Franklin looked like a steal but Griffen is really making an impact every week. Meanwhile Franklin is still very good but not as dominant as 2008.

If AFL had carried out their drafting rules to the letter of the law, we could have had both Griffen and Franklin.

The AFL drafting rules state that the players name and ID number must be read out 100% correct by the club otherwise they lose the player they read out and forfeit the pick.The AFL reads these rules out strictly at the start of every draft and outlines the seriousness of any mistakes or breaches.

The problem that year was that there were two Lance Franklins listed to be drafted. Gary Buckenara read out the wrong Lance Franklin. What should have happened according to AFL rules is that their number 5 pick would be have been forfeited and with our number 6 pick we could have had the option of choosing Franklin or Tom Williams.

As it was, the AFL relented on their rules and gave Hawthorn a second chance to read out the players name and ID again. This time they got it right.

What could have been?

 

[yebiga]

If Everitt is traded, it will be a bigger mistake than letting go of Bernie Quinlen

I really can't understand Eade's problem with him. If it is too many mistakes and clangers, what about Hargraves, Johnson, Higgins? If it is a lack of hardness, what about Gia, Hahn, Eagleton - really?

I have not always agreed with Eade's coaching but I have always understood where he was at. The Everitt thing just baffles me. He is tall, quick, elite skills and decision making with the ball. To me the worst he does is that he seems to occasionally lose his opponent in traffic and can appear nonchalant. But what a talent. Aside from Hall he is the only player on our list who can actually kick a set shot goal from outside 50; now would that have been handy against the flooding Saints defence?

Look at the way Malthouse has nurtured his young talent. I have seen Reid, Dawes, Beams, Sidebottom make mistakes, have shocking games. Last year, I could not see Dawes ever becoming an effective forward and lets not even mention l.brown.

What we have done with Everitt is simply a dereliction. It really makes me angry.

 

[dogwatch]

Since everyone gets a chance to play God (list manager) at this time of year, I’ll have my go as well.
I have six categories. I have sorted the list by their age as at 19 Sept 2010:

MUST KEEP (21) – this includes our core top 15 plus 6 of the rising stars or recent recruits.

[FONT=&quot]Hall 33.61 Can’t expect 80 goals in 2011 but even 50-60 would be great[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hudson 31.57 Would expect the same output in 2011 as in 2010 – a great year[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lake 28.56 Has probably 2 more years of peak form in him[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Murphy 28.28 Must not play CHF – play him as a lead up HFF. 2 more years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Boyd 28.07 Has got some bad press lately but he’s still one of our best[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Morris 27.73 Mr Reliable for another 3 years I expect[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cross 27.48 Cross and Boyd will look so much better when Cooney is back[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cooney 24.97 About to hit his prime[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Williams 24.18 Will reach his prime in 1-2 years. An essential defender[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Griffen 24.15 Starting to get right up there with Cooney[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Picken 24.14 The human Scud[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Higgins 22.55 Expect a huge improvement from Higgins in 2011. Forget 2010.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Grant 21.21 If he bulks up about 6-7kg he will be a very dangerous forward[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wood 21.04 Very promising defender with poise and athletic ability[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reid 20.87 Hope his shoulders come good – if so, he’ll be a regular selection[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ward 20.45 Looks and plays like a seasoned footballer - a star in 2011[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cordy 20.12 Still young and needs plenty of game time in VFL first. Patience.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Roughead 19.88 Fantastic ruck prospect not yet 20. Will be a regular in 2011.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jones 19.57 Expect him to improve another 25% in 2011. Pls persevere, Eade![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Howard 19.51 Not 100% sure if he’ll make it will be better with a full pre-season[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tutt 19.35 I’m quietly confident about him. Expect to crack a few games.[/FONT]

PREFER TO KEEP (5)
[FONT=&quot]Stack 22.32 I’d give him one more year if he wants to stay, otherwise trade[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Everitt 21.52 I would keep him but pretty sure Eade won’t, so he may be a trade[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gilbee 29.20 No trade value: solid but not outstanding 30-y-o [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Addison 22.95 Recent form seems OK but unlikely ever to be a star[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Minson 25.44 Disappointing year maybe his lack of a full pre-season was a factor[/FONT]

KEEP WITH SOME RESERVATIONS (5)
[FONT=&quot]Giansiracusa 28.53 No value as a trade at 29yrs and may still have a bit to offer[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hargrave 29.15 Same as Gia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mulligan 21.27 Speculative option for defence or (if desperate) the ruck[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Boumann 21.09 Last chance. Must show something in 2011.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thorne 23.82 He has a 2yr contract and we need this type (elusive crumber)[/FONT]

That’s 31 staying on the senior list.

TRADE – only two here but maybe Stack and Everitt will join them. I’m assuming that we will bank the draft pick(s) we get for Harbrow but whoever else we trade will be “one for one” so no net change to the numbers on the senior list:
[FONT=&quot]Harbrow 22.17 Would like to keep him but the chance of that seems about 1%[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hill 21.67 He has a future in the AFL but maybe needs a change of club [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
DELIST
[FONT=&quot]Akermanis 33.57 Already gone[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hahn 29.36 I would delist/retire him but I suspect he will stay another year[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Callan 26.70 We have other options now. Sorry, Timmy, but your time is up. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Markovic 23.71 Didn’t make an impression in 2010 and he was already developed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tiller 23.49 Had a lot of chances to impress over the years. Marginal at best.[/FONT]

RETIRED
[FONT=&quot]Johnson 34.17 Thanks for a fine career, so much passion and so many great memories[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eagleton 31.86 Adios, to a great club man, hard runner, wonderful 55m left foot goals [/FONT]

So there are eight places to fill (assuming any trades we do are one-for-one, apart from Harbrow):
DRAFT
Wallis – father / son
Liberatore – father / son
Hooper – rookie promotion – looks a good prospect, like his attitude
Moles – rookie promotion – jury is still out on Brodie
Panos – rookie promotion – could stay a rookie but I’d prefer to lock him into a senior contract. KPF prospects are rare so it's worth persevering.

That leaves three discretionary picks and we’d be looking for key defenders (eg Faulks), outside midfielders and/or crumbing forwards. I expect Hahn will end up staying so we’ll probably have only two discretionary picks, which seems about right in a year when the draft is badly compromised.

 

[yebiga]

Great work dogwatch.
According to the Hun, Hahn has already been offered a year.
The same report says we are in the chase for the Sherman tank, which is exactly the kind of fast player we require.

 

[Morris Major]

If Eade trades Everitt I'm gonna spew. Sick of him playing favourites, and it clearly hasn't been working out.

 

[Coooooooneyyyyyyyy]

If Everitt goes thats caked.

 

[Bulldog1954]

If Everitt is traded, it will be a bigger mistake than letting go of Bernie Quinlen

I really can't understand Eade's problem with him. If it is too many mistakes and clangers, what about Hargraves, Johnson, Higgins? If it is a lack of hardness, what about Gia, Hahn, Eagleton - really?

Hahn has his problems but if Everitt had anywhere near the hardness of Hahn he would play every game.

The ball is in Everitt's court, if he get's harder and increase's his intensity will be a regular

 

[Guido]

If AFL had carried out their drafting rules to the letter of the law, we could have had both Griffen and Franklin.

The AFL drafting rules state that the players name and ID number must be read out 100% correct by the club otherwise they lose the player they read out and forfeit the pick.The AFL reads these rules out strictly at the start of every draft and outlines the seriousness of any mistakes or breaches.

The problem that year was that there were two Lance Franklins listed to be drafted. Gary Buckenara read out the wrong Lance Franklin. What should have happened according to AFL rules is that their number 5 pick would be have been forfeited and with our number 6 pick we could have had the option of choosing Franklin or Tom Williams.

As it was, the AFL relented on their rules and gave Hawthorn a second chance to read out the players name and ID again. This time they got it right.

What could have been?

Not quite right.

The other player was in question was Luke Franklin - a 20 year old, also from Perth.

They did not complete reading out his full draft number, and didn't read out either his or Lance's name. Buckenara started reading his number, someone alerted him, he said correction, and read out the correct number and name. It's happened a number of times over the years, and no AFL rep has ever intervened at any point. If the number was read in full with an incorrect corresponding name read out, then it may very well have been a different story.

What shits me is that we probably would have been in a position to get both Griffen and Franklin if it wasn't for the stupidity of the Rawlings blunder.

One of Rawlings' best performances for the year was against Hawthorn early in the season - reverse the result, and we would have ended up with picks 2 and 5, Hawthorn with 3 and 6. 2: WB - Griffen 3: Haw: Roughead, 4: Rich: Tambling, 5: WB - Franklin.

Add the Koops trade into the mix (traded pick 19 or 20 for him, the sole reason being to scuttle a 4-way trade which would have landed Jade to North), which could have meant Mundy on our list today (Clayton had him among his top 10), and then of course lets not forget the "get rid of Rawlings" trade (LOSING draft position to get offload him), which cost us Swallow (was told pre-draft by Clayton he'd be picked up with our second pick).

Add 2/3 23-24 year olds of that quality to this list ... jeez. Apologies for all of the half-baked assumptions and coulda woulda shouldas, for some reason the masochist in me always seems strongest in Grand Final week.

 

[Guido]

i think our recruiting has been pretty good since 2000 - there have been a few balls ups, but its been pretty good on the whole

Recruiting as in trading or drafting (or both)?

Drafting, I agree, but if it's trading, IMO the amount of picks we've thrown away this decade is a key reason why we didn't win a flag the last few years.

2 or 3 more of the right quality players could have made all the difference.

The Rawlings balls-up in getting him in and getting him out, Koops, Street, Morgan and Bassett for picks 19, 20, 34, 35, Aker and McDougall for a pick which could have snared someone like Tippet, Alwyn Davey, Houli or Krakeuor (the latter two not quite established, but at 22, are capable of being among premiership teams in the next 8 years), Harrison (premiership players in Buchanan, Hunt Cassisi, Williams could have been picked up at that selection), Bandy (pick 26 could have been used on Campbell Brown or Leigh Montagna), I'm sure there's more.

There's no way Clayton would have nailed all of them, but with almost 10 picks pissed down the drain, and assuming he mantained a strike rate above 20% rolleyes, you can confidently say we would have had at least another 2 or 3 more quality players on our list that would have contributed to our premiership campains over the past 5 years.

One trade we've absolutely nailed - McMahon/Ward. Two trades have been reasonable - Hudson and Hall. A few are neither here nor there involving getting nothing later picks for cast-offs (Hunter, Bowden, Paul Hudson, Power etc). Overall, no where near a pass mark.

 

[Guido]

Since everyone gets a chance to play God (list manager) at this time of year, I’ll have my go as well.
I have six categories. I have sorted the list by their age as at 19 Sept 2010:

Fantastic analysis.

Depending on the quality of the draft, I'd keep Panos on the rookie list and go in with 3 'live' picks on top of the two father sons - you never know, there might be a player available at our last pick in the national draft that won't be available come our first pick in the rookie draft.

 

[TempleKelvington]

As far as I know Kelvin has 2 girls, perhaps insert Will Beasley.

I'd initially name those I feel are untradeable, everyone else up for consideration (depending on what's on offer).

Those I wouldn't trade:

Grant, Murphy, Higgins, Ward, Hudson, Griffen, Cooney, Jones, Roughead, Hall, Wood, Lake, Morris & Picken. I'd obviously have Harbrow on that list too if it wasn't for GC17.

There are youngsters such as Howard, Tutt, Prato & Cordy that you just wouldn't consider trading as we really don't know at this stage what they offer.

My worry is our one paced midfielders; Cross, Boyd, Reid, Ward, Libba & Wallis. We need more players with pace & creativity to assist Cooney & Griffen.

I don't think you can have too many hard inside mids who get the ball. You do need to have outside guys to compliment them of course. Wallis a Libber have a foot inside both camps and I don't think they are as one paced as you suggest. While they may not be line breakers like Cooney and Griffen they are not slow like Crossy. They are going to be rippers and we are so lucky to be able to get them both, we'd be lucky to have got either if they were not father sons.

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

Hahn has his problems but if Everitt had anywhere near the hardness of Hahn he would play every game.

The ball is in Everitt's court, if he get's harder and increase's his intensity will be a regular

What a load of rot. Half the side don't go in like Hanh. Maybe we should delist them all.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

What a load of rot. Half the side don't go in like Hanh. Maybe we should delist them all.

Sorry Lightning.
Everitt does need to lift his intensity and it is up to him.

He does not need to go like Hahn, but if he did he would be an automatic selection. He could also nail a spot if he was prepared to run like Eagleton. Unfortunately he does neither.

 

[Bulldog1954]

What a load of rot. Half the side don't go in like Hanh. Maybe we should delist them all.

Did I say we should delist him? Please point out where I did.

Are you happy with Everitts hardness and intensity?

 

[Kelvin31]

Goes?
BJ
Aka
Eagle
Hahn
Gia
Harbrow
Tiller


Stays?
Hill
Everitt
Minson (as backup)
Addison
Stack
Boumann

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Stays?
Hill
Everitt
Minson (as backup)
Addison
Stack
Boumann

Do you think Eade rates the bolded players in any shape or form or wants them in his team?

 

[KingWilly]

Gone
Johnno
Eagleton
Akermanis

Going??
Harbrow

OK, that four already and with 2 father-son draft picks, our next pick would be in the stratosphere, so who knows who'll be available then.

With the Harbrow thing, I'm guessing we'd get at least an end of first round pick - Couldn't see why we wouldn't use it this year. get a decent kid in so that he's ready in a year or two.

As for the rest, well I've always liked Hahn's hardness, but concede his pace is a worry. Hargrave is needed at the back. I can't see why Boyd's name has been mentioned, he's a hardnut that gets the ball like no-one else. Everitt is a good player and will probably get his chance with Johnno and Eagleton out of the team.

The blokes like Hill, Tiller and Stack could/should be looked at though. They've been used and have proven time and again that they're not quite up to it.

 

[boydsno1]

So we get rid of gia but keep stack? No clue.

 

[Bodicifer]

Gones:
Johnno
Eagle
Mitch
Harbrow (if he stays I'll p15s my pants, in a good way)
Tiller
Hill (trade him whilst he may have a little currency)
The little prick who shall remain nameless