Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

  • Matthew Scarlett

    Votes: 171 61.3%

  • Alex Rance

    Votes: 72 25.8%

  • Jeremy McGovern

    Votes: 24 8.6%

  • Darren Glass

    Votes: 12 4.3%
  • Total voters
    279

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RUNVS

RUNVS

TheBrownDog
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Feb 28, 2007
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Key Defenders
6 - Matthew Scarlett | 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
5 - Alex Rance | 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
4 - Jeremy McGovern | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
4 - Darren Glass | 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012

Basic question I know but an interesting one.

To select these four players over all other Key Defenders I have only selected the Key Defenders who have won 4 or more All Australians in their career. Also I have only selected players who got majority of their All Australians in the 21st century rather than the 20th century.

So simple question, of these four amazing players, which do you feel is best?

For me, and it is just a feeling but I am going to go with Rance. To me it is between Scarlett and Rance, but I feel like Rance just comes out on top as I think he had a bit less help in defence than Scarlett did, but he was just as effective at completely shutting down his opponent.
 
I'm interested in this as a placeholder for Sam Taylor's name
 

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Scarlett out of that lot but Brian Lake should be on the shortlist. Was terrific at the Dogs and had the best twilight to a career I can remember.
 
Orange crush said:
I'm interested in this as a placeholder for Sam Taylor's name
Click to expand...
He and Harris Andrews are the two I think most likely to push onto this list. I dont think Weitering is that far behind in talent but cant get an AA for various reasons.

Scarlett is probably just ahead of Rance but its close
 
RUNVS said:
Key Defenders
6 - Matthew Scarlett | 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
5 - Alex Rance | 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
4 - Jeremy McGovern | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
4 - Darren Glass | 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012

Basic question I know but an interesting one.

To select these four players over all other Key Defenders I have only selected the Key Defenders who have won 4 or more All Australians in their career. Also I have only selected players who got majority of their All Australians in the 21st century rather than the 20th century.

So simple question, of these four amazing players, which do you feel is best?

For me, and it is just a feeling but I am going to go with Rance. To me it is between Scarlett and Rance, but I feel like Rance just comes out on top as I think he had a bit less help in defence than Scarlett did, but he was just as effective at completely shutting down his opponent.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna be a bit biased like anything.

I did rate Luke McPharlin and Michael Johnson at Freo.

Had McPharlin stayed his whole career at the hawks, not only he would of probably been in the hawks 2008, 2013-15 premiership squads, he would possibly would of gotten 3 or 4 AA selections.

He only played one dockers finals series in that Ross Lyon coached 2012-15 run. It was 2013 when Freo made the grand final
 
This is a good one. Scarlett from that list. I always thought Rance was ridiculously overrated.
 
Lol. People have been brainwashed into thinking Matthew Scarlett is a better player than he actually was.

Rance and McGovern are the best 2 and Scarlett is not close to either of them. I am not as confident to compare Glass.


Let's look at some of their stats and votes averages.....

Disposals: Rance 16.6, McGovern 15, Scarlett 14.8

Contested Possessions: Rance 6.5, McGovern 6.5, Scarlett 4.1

Contested Marks: McGovern 2.0, Rance 0.9, Scarlett 0.8

1%ers: Rance 7.8, McGovern 5.8, Scarlett 3.5

Tackles: Rance 2.4, Scarlett 1.5, McGovern 1.4

Brownlow Votes: Rance 0.16 per game, McGovern 0.11 per game, Scarlett 0.11 per game

Coaches Votes: Rance 1.24 per game, McGovern 1.05, Scarlett 0.96(2006 onwards, overall career average likely lower)

Player rating: Rance 12.4(prime years only 2012-19) McGovern 12.4(22yo onwards) Scarlett 9.0(final year only)

Best & Fairest: Rance 1, Scarlett 1, McGovern -(one close second)

AA selections: Scarlett 6, Rance 5, McGovern 4


Scarlett is basically whipping them in, last of this trio by every statistical and ratings or vote getting measure available bar B & F wins, which he shares with Rance, just ahead of McGovern who narrowly missed once. And in contested possessions, 1%ers Scarlett is tailed off, stone motherless last.

Scarlett is a classic example of people being fooled by quantity of AA selections into thinking he was better than his performance would indicate. Terrific player, but a big margin behind both Rance and McGovern.
 
RUNVS said:
Key Defenders
6 - Matthew Scarlett | 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
5 - Alex Rance | 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
4 - Jeremy McGovern | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
4 - Darren Glass | 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012

Basic question I know but an interesting one.

To select these four players over all other Key Defenders I have only selected the Key Defenders who have won 4 or more All Australians in their career. Also I have only selected players who got majority of their All Australians in the 21st century rather than the 20th century.

So simple question, of these four amazing players, which do you feel is best?

For me, and it is just a feeling but I am going to go with Rance. To me it is between Scarlett and Rance, but I feel like Rance just comes out on top as I think he had a bit less help in defence than Scarlett did, but he was just as effective at completely shutting down his opponent.
Click to expand...

I like your posts, but can I suggest you place the players eligible in random order and don’t list the number of AA’s? Unless you want people to use AA as a guiding influence in their selection?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Noidnadroj said:
I like your posts, but can I suggest you place the players eligible in random order and don’t list the number of AA’s? Unless you want people to use AA as a guiding influence in their selection?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

I used the number of AA's to decide who made the cut so I thought it was fair to include that information but you are right that it could affect the vote somewhat.

I wish I could do this with small forwards but small forwards don't tend to get many AA's as most of the time they miss out and a midfielder gets in the "small forward" position. Betts, Milne, Cameron, Papley, none of them made the cut of 4 All Australians.
 

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Engimal v3 said:
This is a good one. Scarlett from that list. I always thought Rance was ridiculously overrated.
Click to expand...

Alex Rance was a good tall defender.

Overrated? Maybe.

Saying that, I was sad when he did his knee in 2019. Tigers won the grand final in 2019 vs GWS. Rance didnt get on the field obviously.
 
Scarlett would never have let a player of the standard of Mason Cox carve his team up in a Preliminary Final the way Rance allowed him to in 2018.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Lol. People have been brainwashed into thinking Matthew Scarlett is a better player than he actually was.

Rance and McGovern are the best 2 and Scarlett is not close to either of them. I am not as confident to compare Glass.


Let's look at some of their stats and votes averages.....

Disposals: Rance 16.6, McGovern 15, Scarlett 14.8

Contested Possessions: Rance 6.5, McGovern 6.5, Scarlett 4.1

Contested Marks: McGovern 2.0, Rance 0.9, Scarlett 0.8

1%ers: Rance 7.8, McGovern 5.8, Scarlett 3.5

Tackles: Rance 2.4, Scarlett 1.5, McGovern 1.4

Brownlow Votes: Rance 0.16 per game, McGovern 0.11 per game, Scarlett 0.11 per game

Coaches Votes: Rance 1.24 per game, McGovern 1.05, Scarlett 0.96(2006 onwards, overall career average likely lower)

Player rating: Rance 12.4(prime years only 2012-19) McGovern 12.4(22yo onwards) Scarlett 9.0(final year only)

Best & Fairest: Rance 1, Scarlett 1, McGovern -(one close second)

AA selections: Scarlett 6, Rance 5, McGovern 4


Scarlett is basically whipping them in, last of this trio by every statistical and ratings or vote getting measure available bar B & F wins, which he shares with Rance, just ahead of McGovern who narrowly missed once. And in contested possessions, 1%ers Scarlett is tailed off, stone motherless last.

Scarlett is a classic example of people being fooled by quantity of AA selections into thinking he was better than his performance would indicate. Terrific player, but a big margin behind both Rance and McGovern.
Click to expand...
Interesting you use averages given Rance retired in the prime of his career and therefore didn't have his averages negatively impacted by his 'twilight years'...

I'm sure that's just an honest oversight...
 
Freomaniac said:
Nah.... Brian lake is not even the best tall defender the hawks had since 2001. Trent croad, Josh Gibson....


And finally... Strapping Young Lad , aussierulesrules and bird_man, joop and projectv .... I nominate the legendary Zac Dawson LoL
Click to expand...

Gibbo played his best football once we got Lake and he was able to be a free defender/3rd defender - of which he is one of the best ever.

Croad was very good, but I think Lake was better.
 
RUNVS said:
I used the number of AA's to decide who made the cut so I thought it was fair to include that information but you are right that it could affect the vote somewhat.

I wish I could do this with small forwards but small forwards don't tend to get many AA's as most of the time they miss out and a midfielder gets in the "small forward" position. Betts, Milne, Cameron, Papley, none of them made the cut of 4 All Australians.
Click to expand...
Yeah it'd be interesting to see it discussed but you'd have to lower the bar pretty heavily for the smalls. Probably end up a Cyril vs those you've named. With a side discussion of whether you include the mid forwards like Johnson and Chapman
 
The key is defender
Scarlett defended best.
Although he only played half his career in the 21st century Ben hart is criminally underrated.
4 AA in the back pocket awesome athleticism awesome reach could play on the big dogs or the smalls.
Have him in the back pocket in my afl era team
 
KissKiss said:
Yeah it'd be interesting to see it discussed but you'd have to lower the bar pretty heavily for the smalls. Probably end up a Cyril vs those you've named. With a side discussion of whether you include the mid forwards like Johnson and Chapman
Click to expand...
The mid/forward discussion would be a very interesting one.

Johnson
Dangerfield
Chapman
Greene
Akermanis
R. Gray
Brad Johnson
De Goey

And I guess you'd have to throw Martin in there to make up the numbers.
 
Last edited:
Fadge said:
Interesting you use averages given Rance retired in the prime of his career and therefore didn't have his averages negatively impacted by his 'twilight years'...

I'm sure that's just an honest oversight...
Click to expand...

You caught me out supplying career averages of what the players actually did over their whole careers.

Why don't you correct my grave deception then and supply the averages for each player from the year in which they turned 22 to the year in which they turned 30....
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You caught me out supplying career averages of what the players actually did over their whole careers.

Why don't you correct my grave deception then and supply the averages for each player from the year in which they turned 22 to the year in which they turned 30....
Click to expand...
No thanks, because my analysis goes broader than analysis by stats sheets.
 

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Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

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