Which is the best team of the 21st century?

[p4p1]

I think you’ll find they don’t have the same amount of Coleman medals, as Roughead has one and Daniher doesn’t.
Daniher has played as the main man in every side he has ever lined up in. Roughead spent the first half of his career behind the best key forward of the last 30 years and still managed to hold his own, not to mention sharing goals with Breust and Gunston and to a lesser extent Rioli etc.

Daniher is a decent player and has his moments but he’s not in the same tier as Roughead.

You don’t think Daniher has a Coleman medal?

The flip side of playing with Buddy is getting the second best defender every week instead. I’m not sure if it evens out or not but his Coleman came when he was playing in the same side.

 

[PhatBoy]

You don’t think Daniher has a Coleman medal?

The flip side of playing with Buddy is getting the second best defender every week instead. I’m not sure if it evens out or not but his Coleman came when he was playing in the same side.

I don’t think he doesn’t have one, I know he doesn’t.

Google ‘Coleman medal winners’ and check for the name ‘Joe Daniher’ and come back to me.

So unless you think he’s going to kick 18 this weekend and tie with Jesse Hogan, or his CRICHTON medal is going to be renamed, you need to check your facts.

Who cares whether he won the Coleman with Buddy in the same team or not. The fact is he came out a year later and kicked even more goals in less games.

 

[p4p1]

Cyril was one of those players who got hold at pretty much every contest he played when he ran through the midfield. Idk if he was particularly hard done by as a lot of the star players get this treatment and I'm obviously biased but he didn't get the greatest run.

I love Charlie Cameron as a player but I really don't think he influences games anywhere near as much as Cyril did in his prime.

Gunston also spent almost a full season in 2017 and half a season in 2019 at half back which is probably worth mentioning. In his best and fairest year when he was possibly playing at his best was 1, a shortened season and 2, had shorter game times and was in probably the worst Hawthorn team since 2005. Under better circumstances that's probably a 60-70 goal season. Both Bradshaw and Gunston lead their side's goalkicking 3 times but Gunston did it in a premiership year in the league's best offense and he has an AA which probably nudges him slightly above if we are just talking accolades.

Charlie’s influence on games doesn’t always look as spectacular as Cyril’s but he has kicked over 50 goals as a small forward in 4 of the last 5 seasons, though he won’t this season, his kicking has been shocking. That he has only had 2 AA jackets in that time is an example of what some non-vic players, particularly players in Queensland, which is unrepresented in the AA selection panel, have to contend with to get into the team. Especially as a forward pocket or half forward flank where the selectors like to put mids who didn’t make it into their preferred position. He has finished between top 5-6 and the highest ranked small forward 5 times. He is definitely in Cyril’s class.

Bradshaw was 3rd in line behind a young Brown, and Lynch and because of that he was played as a Utility a lot. Bradshaw best season in 2008 earns him an AA selection in just about any other year but Fev and Buddy had an incredible year. Pav, who I love made the AA team in the bench that year despite having less goals. Sometimes the year/s you play at your best you can be unlucky with selection due to years others have. Gunners was 7th in the Coleman in 2018 when he got an AA selection. Bradshaws finish of 3rd in 2008 is higher in the Coleman race than Gunston ever finished and his second best finish at 5th is equal best with Gunners best finish. Both times he kicked more goals that Gunston has been able to in a season. Those that didn’t watch much Bradshaw don’t realise how good he was at his best, he was just a quiet achiever who did whatever the team required of him.

 

[p4p1]

I don’t think he doesn’t have one, I know he doesn’t.

Google ‘Coleman medal winners’ and check for the name ‘Joe Daniher’ and come back to me.

So unless you think he’s going to kick 18 this weekend and tie with Jesse Hogan, or his CRICHTON medal is going to be renamed, you need to check your facts.

Who cares whether he won the Coleman with Buddy in the same team or not. The fact is he came out a year later and kicked even more goals in less games.

I was wrong. I’m not sure why I thought he won it in 2017. I was wrong on that.
Anyway, roughy goes at 2.04 goals a season, Joey goes at 1.94. On averages across all areas they are shockingly similar but Joe has never played in a team as good as the 08 hawks, let alone the 3peat Hawks and played in some fairly diabolical Essendon teams.

In a dominant Hawthorn team but didn’t or couldn’t back it up again in another dominant hawthorn team. Obviously he never recovered that form but it can’t be held against him because I’m not sure how much of that is due to hawthorn regressing or if it was because of the cancer.

If Joe isn’t as good as Roughead there isn’t much in it, as the stats show. Whether you think being in a dominant team is a help or a hindrance is up to you.

 

[p4p1]

Yeah that Hawks forwardline is in the conversation for best ever in my biased opinion. It's also worth mentioning that with that forwardline, Hawthorn went 22-3 for a season with an apparently worse midfield and defense than a Brisbane team that never lost less than 5 games. That Brisbane fan is seriously underrating how good that Hawthorn forwardline was.

Highest scoring teams each grand final year (with how much higher scoring they were than the second highest scoring team)
2001: Essendon
2002: Brisbane by 6.8%
2003: Brisbane by 1.5%
2004: Brisbane by 0.1%

2012: Hawthorn by 10.3%
2013: Hawthorn by 4.7%
2014: Hawthorn by 12.8%
2015: Hawthorn by 5.2%

Hawthorn were easily the highest scoring team in all 4 of their grand final years, Brisbane only lead this comfortably once. I didn't want to compare raw numbers as they are different eras and Hawthorn did get the benefit of beating up on some expansion clubs in those first 2-3 years. But comparing it to the other sides around them, Hawthorn were more potent in attack, and in 2 of these years, a different top 4 side had the best forward of the era.

No the Brisbane fan evaluated the teams selected by the rules set out in the OP.
The Hawthorn forward line that existed is better than the one that Brisbane did the threepeat with. But the Hawthorn forward line mentioned is more or less their 3peat forward line.
Throw a prime Brown in, Daniher(though not in the OP), Charlie Cameron, Aker relagated to HFF because of Neale, Black and Voss, even though personally I would have him on a wing opposite Clugg, and Zorko at his best then the forward line is a lot more dangerous and unpredictable.

 

[p4p1]

Ah I see so it’s not the teams that have actually existed. Which is a little confusing because people are talking about teams that have won flags as well.

Prime Richo in our 17-20 team would’ve been a monster then. If he is eligible for selection.

I think you can find a spot for T Mitchell in his Brownlow year on the field of the Hawks team.

I think it’s definitely a interesting exercise, though all the teams for each club are going to be better researched if done by fans of that team rather than just the OP who did an admiral job either way.
But your tiges with the premiership teams making the backbone of the team plus Richo and whoever else squeezes into that team from the century would be one hell of a team. Out of interest who else comes into that team?

 

[PhatBoy]

I was wrong. I’m not sure why I thought he won it in 2017. I was wrong on that.
Anyway, roughy goes at 2.04 goals a season, Joey goes at 1.94. On averages across all areas they are shockingly similar but Joe has never played in a team as good as the 08 hawks, let alone the 3peat Hawks and played in some fairly diabolical Essendon teams.

In a dominant Hawthorn team but didn’t or couldn’t back it up again in another dominant hawthorn team. Obviously he never recovered that form but it can’t be held against him because I’m not sure how much of that is due to hawthorn regressing or if it was because of the cancer.

If Joe isn’t as good as Roughead there isn’t much in it, as the stats show. Whether you think being in a dominant team is a help or a hindrance is up to you.

He had back to back 50+ goal seasons in a side that went 20-21-1.
Not really sure how dominant you think they were at that point. And in one of those seasons he barely kicked at 50 per cent so could have done a whole lot better.

There’s not a single metric in which Daniher comes out on top, right down to things like tackling. Roughead averages 2.35 to 1.1. Goal assists, possessions, hit outs, clearances, clangers. Contested marks is about the only one I can find in Daniher’s favour and if you aren’t doing the other meaningful stuff with the ball after you take a contested mark then it doesn’t matter too much anyway

 

[Mr Meow]

I was wrong. I’m not sure why I thought he won it in 2017. I was wrong on that.
Anyway, roughy goes at 2.04 goals a season, Joey goes at 1.94. On averages across all areas they are shockingly similar but Joe has never played in a team as good as the 08 hawks, let alone the 3peat Hawks and played in some fairly diabolical Essendon teams.

In a dominant Hawthorn team but didn’t or couldn’t back it up again in another dominant hawthorn team. Obviously he never recovered that form but it can’t be held against him because I’m not sure how much of that is due to hawthorn regressing or if it was because of the cancer.

If Joe isn’t as good as Roughead there isn’t much in it, as the stats show. Whether you think being in a dominant team is a help or a hindrance is up to you.

Roughead's averages were brought down by his post-cancer years. He would've ended up with 650-700 goals without going through that (adding 3 extra full seasons, and bumping up late career averages).

2007-2015 as a CHF he registered 40, 75, 51, 53, 16 (injuries), 41, 72, 75 and 50 goal seasons. 2011-2015 while also going at 16-19 disposals a game.

Interestingly you have included 72 and 75 goal seasons as "not backing it up in a dominant team". He was also a big part of what made that team dominant, their forward line was the point of difference. One he lead 2014-2015 while Franklin was no longer there.

 

[p4p1]

He had back to back 50+ goal seasons in a side that went 20-21-1.
Not really sure how dominant you think they were at that point. And in one of those seasons he barely kicked at 50 per cent so could have done a whole lot better.

There’s not a single metric in which Daniher comes out on top, right down to things like tackling. Roughead averages 2.35 to 1.1. Goal assists, possessions, hit outs, clearances, clangers. Contested marks is about the only one I can find in Daniher’s favour and if you aren’t doing the other meaningful stuff with the ball after you take a contested mark then it doesn’t matter too much anyway

I don’t disagree with what you are saying but my point is that while I may have overrated Daniher and underrated Roughead initially, their stats aren’t night and day different and are extremely close. Daniher kicked 43 and 65 over in a team that went 15-30 over a two season stretch, much worse than breaking even. I don’t think one guy is clearly better than the other looking at how close they are in terms of stats and averages and comparing the teams they have played for.

If I was to put Daniher into what is essentially our 3peat team, he would be taller than our rucks and with key forwards of Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw it would be worth considering putting him in the ruck instead of up forward IMO.

 

[p4p1]

Roughead's averages were brought down by his post-cancer years. He would've ended up with 650-700 goals without going through that (adding 3 extra full seasons, and bumping up late career averages).

2007-2015 as a CHF he registered 40, 75, 51, 53, 16 (injuries), 41, 72, 75 and 50 goal seasons. 2011-2015 while also going at 16-19 disposals a game.

Interestingly you have included 72 and 75 goal seasons as "not backing it up in a dominant team". He was also a big part of what made that team dominant, their forward line was the point of difference. One he lead 2014-2015 while Franklin was no longer there.

I what I meant was that without buddy he was only able to kick 70 goals one more time. Then from 2015 when Hawthorn had started to slide just a little and weren’t as dominant it dropped significantly. Obviously his post cancer career brought his averages down. As I said above I don’t know how much of that was due to the cancer and how much was due to the Hawks continued slide. It’s a lot harder kicking goals in teams that don’t win as much. Outside of his last year, his disposals stayed at a similar rate as his precancer/3peat years. So again, I’m not sure whether you can categorically say it was because of the cancer or because of Hawthorns slide. The most likely case would be a mix of both.
Joes averages were hobbled by playing for Essendon why were terribly bad during some of his time there. If we want to consider what could have been with Roughead if it weren’t for the cancer then we can do the same thing for Joe. After his best season (at least statistically) he lost basically 3 season of what should have been prime years he could have another 180-200+ goals,
I’m happy to accept that Roughead is the better player but there isn't much in it either way.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I think it’s definitely a interesting exercise, though all the teams for each club are going to be better researched if done by fans of that team rather than just the OP who did an admiral job either way.
But your tiges with the premiership teams making the backbone of the team plus Richo and whoever else squeezes into that team from the century would be one hell of a team. Out of interest who else comes into that team?

Probably would take out caddy and the fwd line would look like:

Dusty, Riewoldt, Richo
Edwards, Lynch, Rioli

Would this beat the Lions fwd line? I’d say probably yeah.

 

[Mr Meow]

I what I meant was that without buddy he was only able to kick 70 goals one more time. Then from 2015 when Hawthorn had started to slide just a little and weren’t as dominant it dropped significantly. Obviously his post cancer career brought his averages down. As I said above I don’t know how much of that was due to the cancer and how much was due to the Hawks continued slide. It’s a lot harder kicking goals in teams that don’t win as much. Outside of his last year, his disposals stayed at a similar rate as his precancer/3peat years. So again, I’m not sure whether you can categorically say it was because of the cancer or because of Hawthorns slide. The most likely case would be a mix of both.
Joes averages were hobbled by playing for Essendon why were terribly bad during some of his time there. If we want to consider what could have been with Roughead if it weren’t for the cancer then we can do the same thing for Joe. After his best season (at least statistically) he lost basically 3 season of what should have been prime years he could have another 180-200+ goals,
I’m happy to accept that Roughead is the better player but there isn't much in it either way.

In your initial post I misinterpreted you as meaning Roughead didn't back up his 2008 performance in similarly dominant sides of 2013-2015. Now I realise you meant the years that followed i.e 2009-2011. To be honest it works both ways, the whole team being out of sync or underperforming can make a forward's output diminish just as his lowering form can make the team weaker. But he did get moved around a fair bit too. And if we use the caveat of "well this forward did it all in weaker teams" we are automatically punishing players for being associated with success. It's a slippery slope. In weaker teams you may get the ball kicked to you more than other forwards for instance to balance that out.

I do think Roughy was a decent player but not the same after cancer as his previous few years to 2016 were stellar. Again if you dismiss it as being associated with a dominant team we will just go round in circles forever.

But all other things being equal I think Roughy would've had good impact until 34ish like Hawkins, Walker, Franklin etc. So I think rating the peak 8 years suffices in this case to get a measure on how he and Daniher stacked up. On that basis I'd take Roughead but fair enough if you think differently.

 

[PhatBoy]

Daniher is and always has been a good bordering on elite player but his biggest problem has been never maintaining it for long enough and probably also that he turns in shockers. It’s hard to recall many times when you would watch the hawks and wonder which roughy would turn up. And there was a time you legitimately argue that behind buddy you could argue he was the best key forward in the game for a relatively prolonged period. I personally don’t think Joe has ever reached that level. He’s shown patches of that for a month or two here and there and you get the impression that a season of it would put him at that level- Coleman or no Coleman THIS is the best, in the same way that Cameron has been mentioned whether he’s winning Colemans or not. But it’s not been consistent enough for me.

If you were building a Lions team of the century he may start alongside Lynch and Brown but combining them with the Hawks he doesn’t cut it IMO

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Hawthorns starting mids 571 votes
Brisbane starting mids 661 votes

If you add Hodge (131) on a HBF and T Mitchell (135) on the bench but two of your highest vote getters then add Brisbanes next highest non KP highest vote getters, Aker (107) and Zorko (85) then the Hawks mid votes jump at to 837 while the Lions go to 853. So I’m not sure where you are getting the Hawks mids having more total Brownlow votes from.

Pike was a utility and could play anywhere. Before he tore his hamstring in the 02 grand final he was the best player on the ground. You’re underestimating how good he was. In regards to AA selections, VIC teams do get a better ride from the selectors compared to Brisbane historically. Buddy is no doubt better than any forward from Brisbane but Roughead is not and

Neither Rich or Adcock are making the Lions best team. Akermanis, Lappin, Johnson, Leppitsch, Andrews were all in the AA team as defenders. I’m going to assume you are correct about the Hawks backline having a total of 9AAs between them. Johnson (2), Leppa (3), and Andrews (2) have 7 between them, you can make it 8 if you wanted to add Rich but as I said on a HBF I would go with a guy the guy who was a 4x AA on the HBF with Lappin who played on a back flank in 2 of the Lions premierships.

So in summary, Brisbane mids are better than Hawthorns, on balance the Lions forwards are better than the Hawks, and the defence is a wash. So you might need to rethink all of this.

This post is quite disingenuous. Firstly, you count Lappin in your starting midfield (for Brownlow vote tally) and then you count him in your defence again (for AA tally). You count Akermanis as a forward but then you count him again in your defence. You've only got one of these players - you can't count them as a different player in each part of the field, addin their accolades separately to every line (you should probably post your team as a starting point).

You then make the argument that the Brisbane forward line is stronger because Vic teams get more AA's and Pike is underrated? (completely ignoring every major metric I posted). Even the idea that Brisbane is unluckier with AA's you have not tested at all. When Brisbane won the threepeat and made a Grand Final, they received 17 AA selections. When Hawthorn won the threepeat and played in a Grand Final (with a far superior home and away record to Brisbane), Hawthorn received just 11 AA selections. Hawthorn remain the only team to win the flag and have no AA selections. Hell, just 1 example, but when we finished clear on top of the ladder, Sam Mitchell won our best and fairest easily, was the clear best player in the best side, won the Brownlow and was not All Australian. Even then, we are talking about the Hawthorn forwards having double the AA's (16 vs 8) of the originally named Brisbane side and 5 x as many Colemans (5 v 1). The Hawthorn forwards played in a lower scoring era and still kicked 500 more goals than their Brisbane counterparts. Every neutral in this thread (even Geelong supporters) have highlighted that the Hawhtorn forward line was stronger. The fact you think Roughead and Daniher are comparable says a lot really. Daniher has never kicked more than 65 goals in a season. Roughead kicked 72+ 3 times. You even compared goal average (which Roughead still leads), completely ignoring that Roughead played CHB for the first 2 years of his career, spent another 2 years as a meaningful ruck (winning AA in that role), played through the middle plenty and his average came right down from multiple serious cancers at his peak. (Roughead is much more comparable to Brown - 1 Coleman each, 2 AA's each, similar peaks, both club captains, only 16 goals difference in their whole careers with Brown a permanent forward and Roughead playing multiple roles. I assume you don't think Daniher is better than Brown?).

Ultimately, I think the truth is this:

Midfield: Brisbane
Forwards: Hawthorn
Defence: Hawthorn
Rucks: Hawthorn

Either way, both are comfortably top 3 with Geelong IMO.

 

[p4p1]

This post is quite disingenuous. Firstly, you count Lappin in your starting midfield (for Brownlow vote tally) and then you count him in your defence again (for AA tally). You count Akermanis as a forward but then you count him again in your defence. You've only got one of these players - you can't count them as a different player in each part of the field, addin their accolades separately to every line (you should probably post your team as a starting point).

You then make the argument that the Brisbane forward line is stronger because Vic teams get more AA's and Pike is underrated? (completely ignoring every major metric I posted). Even the idea that Brisbane is unluckier with AA's you have not tested at all. When Brisbane won the threepeat and made a Grand Final, they received 17 AA selections. When Hawthorn won the threepeat and played in a Grand Final (with a far superior home and away record to Brisbane), Hawthorn received just 11 AA selections. Hawthorn remain the only team to win the flag and have no AA selections. Hell, just 1 example, but when we finished clear on top of the ladder, Sam Mitchell won our best and fairest easily, was the clear best player in the best side, won the Brownlow and was not All Australian. Even then, we are talking about the Hawthorn forwards having double the AA's (16 vs 8) of the originally named Brisbane side and 5 x as many Colemans (5 v 1). The Hawthorn forwards played in a lower scoring era and still kicked 500 more goals than their Brisbane counterparts. Every neutral in this thread (even Geelong supporters) have highlighted that the Hawhtorn forward line was stronger. The fact you think Roughead and Daniher are comparable says a lot really. Daniher has never kicked more than 65 goals in a season. Roughead kicked 72+ 3 times. You even compared goal average (which Roughead still leads), completely ignoring that Roughead played CHB for the first 2 years of his career, spent another 2 years as a meaningful ruck (winning AA in that role), played through the middle plenty and his average came right down from multiple serious cancers at his peak. (Roughead is much more comparable to Brown - 1 Coleman each, 2 AA's each, similar peaks, both club captains, only 16 goals difference in their whole careers with Brown a permanent forward and Roughead playing multiple roles. I assume you don't think Daniher is better than Brown?).

Ultimately, I think the truth is this:

Midfield: Brisbane
Forwards: Hawthorn
Defence: Hawthorn
Rucks: Hawthorn

Either way, both are comfortably top 3 with Geelong IMO.

No if you were able to read, what I said is that Brisbane, in the named starting midfield done by the OP has more Brownlow votes. 571 to 661. You are the one that made the assertion originally that the Hawks mids had polled more votes. I added Hodge and Mitchell because I thought that may have the Hawks having more votes. I’m trying to figure out how you came up with the Hawks mids having more Brownlow votes than the Lions mids.

You mentioned the Hawks having more AA’s in defence. Burgoynes lone AA was as a mid, named on the interchange bench. A bit disingenuous listing him among your AA defenders don’t you think? You then said that Brisbane has 3 defenders named in their backline with 7 AA between them. In the named backline it is 4 defenders with 8 AA between them, Andrews is all but guaranteed another this year which would make the line up 9. As I said in my post, both I said both Aker and Lappin are more qualified to be considered AA defenders over Burgoyne because they were both named as AA defenders. I then said I would have Lappin on a HBF given that he was named as an AA defender and was better than both Rich and Adcock and it isn’t even close. As a 4 x AA using the metrics that you have used it is 6 players in the Hawks backline for 9 AAs to the Lions players with 11 AAs between them. Much closer, check but in a month or so and it’ll be 12 AAs most likely. Michael may not have won an AA but many at the time thought he was somewhat hard done by.

Now, as for it being harder to get AA selection if you play for Brisbane:
Simon Black is a 3 x AA, making the teams in 01, 02 and 03 only. From 07-09 he finished second in the Brownlow twice and 4th. He made the AA team a grand total of 0 times.
Lachie Neale won the Brownlow medal last year and didn’t make the team.
Charlie Cameron has made the AA team twice but has been the top scoring non key forward for in each season since 2019 bar 2023 (ironically when he actually made the team).You would think he would have 1 or 2 more AA given his stats.
Chris Johnson had a better seasons during the Lions premiership era than guys named in at least two of the teams he didn’t make.
McCluggage not making the AA team despite being in the top few wingers for a handful of seasons.
So it absolutely is harder to get an AA jacket as a Queenslander,

Of course your forward line has more AAs, Buddy has 8 of them. However the Lions forward line named by the OP has 10, not 8 as you said. By the end of the year, it will likely be the 11 amongst the Lions. Buddy is far better than anyone the Lions have but some of the Lions forwards are better than their counterparts as well. Bradshaw, despite not having an AA selection is absolutely of similar quality compared to guys your other two keys outside of Buddy. Aker is better than any of the Hawks non keys (though I would name him on a wing), Cameron and Rioli are at worst break even.

As for Martin Pike who you mentioned, he was good enough to be in the Kangaroos premiership line up in 99, win Fitzroys last ever BnF and play state of origin.

As for Daniher vs Roughead, I am willing to concede Roughy is the better player. But their averages across the board are shockingly similar, though Roughead leads most meaningful stats. Roughead may never have recovered after his cancer, but it also coincided with a huge slide from the Hawks. Daniher himself was injured during what should have been prime years for 3 seasons and had to play for a terrible Essendon for multiple years which surely you must agree that as a forward that is always going to hurt your stats. He was unlucky to misout on the forward/ruck role last year and get his second AA. If the Lions had double ups against NM and WCE.

The goal tally between the two teams forward lines is almost dead on 400 not 500 hundred. A few key differences though is that of the 6 named by the OP for the Lions, Akermanis played in the backline a bit but mostly the middle, Zorko goes forward at times but has spent the vast majority of his career playing as a mid. Roughead may have played as a back early and spent time in the ruck, Lynch spent his first 5-6 seasons playing at full back. Bradshaw spent most of his career playing as a utility, swapping between the back and forward line. Bradshaw was still able to kick 16 more goals, than Roughead as you mentioned but what you didn’t mention was that he did it in 50 less games.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

No if you were able to read, what I said is that Brisbane, in the named starting midfield done by the OP has more Brownlow votes. 571 to 661. You are the one that made the assertion originally that the Hawks mids had polled more votes. I added Hodge and Mitchell because I thought that may have the Hawks having more votes. I’m trying to figure out how you came up with the Hawks mids having more Brownlow votes than the Lions mids.

You mentioned the Hawks having more AA’s in defence. Burgoynes lone AA was as a mid, named on the interchange bench. A bit disingenuous listing him among your AA defenders don’t you think? You then said that Brisbane has 3 defenders named in their backline with 7 AA between them. In the named backline it is 4 defenders with 8 AA between them, Andrews is all but guaranteed another this year which would make the line up 9. As I said in my post, both I said both Aker and Lappin are more qualified to be considered AA defenders over Burgoyne because they were both named as AA defenders. I then said I would have Lappin on a HBF given that he was named as an AA defender and was better than both Rich and Adcock and it isn’t even close. As a 4 x AA using the metrics that you have used it is 6 players in the Hawks backline for 9 AAs to the Lions players with 11 AAs between them. Much closer, check but in a month or so and it’ll be 12 AAs most likely. Michael may not have won an AA but many at the time thought he was somewhat hard done by.

Now, as for it being harder to get AA selection if you play for Brisbane:
Simon Black is a 3 x AA, making the teams in 01, 02 and 03 only. From 07-09 he finished second in the Brownlow twice and 4th. He made the AA team a grand total of 0 times.
Lachie Neale won the Brownlow medal last year and didn’t make the team.
Charlie Cameron has made the AA team twice but has been the top scoring non key forward for in each season since 2019 bar 2023 (ironically when he actually made the team).You would think he would have 1 or 2 more AA given his stats.
Chris Johnson had a better seasons during the Lions premiership era than guys named in at least two of the teams he didn’t make.
McCluggage not making the AA team despite being in the top few wingers for a handful of seasons.
So it absolutely is harder to get an AA jacket as a Queenslander,

Of course your forward line has more AAs, Buddy has 8 of them. However the Lions forward line named by the OP has 10, not 8 as you said. By the end of the year, it will likely be the 11 amongst the Lions. Buddy is far better than anyone the Lions have but some of the Lions forwards are better than their counterparts as well. Bradshaw, despite not having an AA selection is absolutely of similar quality compared to guys your other two keys outside of Buddy. Aker is better than any of the Hawks non keys (though I would name him on a wing), Cameron and Rioli are at worst break even.

As for Martin Pike who you mentioned, he was good enough to be in the Kangaroos premiership line up in 99, win Fitzroys last ever BnF and play state of origin.

As for Daniher vs Roughead, I am willing to concede Roughy is the better player. But their averages across the board are shockingly similar, though Roughead leads most meaningful stats. Roughead may never have recovered after his cancer, but it also coincided with a huge slide from the Hawks. Daniher himself was injured during what should have been prime years for 3 seasons and had to play for a terrible Essendon for multiple years which surely you must agree that as a forward that is always going to hurt your stats. He was unlucky to misout on the forward/ruck role last year and get his second AA. If the Lions had double ups against NM and WCE.

The goal tally between the two teams forward lines is almost dead on 400 not 500 hundred. A few key differences though is that of the 6 named by the OP for the Lions, Akermanis played in the backline a bit but mostly the middle, Zorko goes forward at times but has spent the vast majority of his career playing as a mid. Roughead may have played as a back early and spent time in the ruck, Lynch spent his first 5-6 seasons playing at full back. Bradshaw spent most of his career playing as a utility, swapping between the back and forward line. Bradshaw was still able to kick 16 more goals, than Roughead as you mentioned but what you didn’t mention was that he did it in 50 less games.

I assumed it would be pretty obvious from the post you quoted nearly a year ago that the team in the OP has changed since I made that post. Otherwise, why would me mentioning Pike as one of the forward 6 be relevant when he is now not in the OP at all. Same goes for me mentioning Adcock and Rich as the hbf"s when now it is White. That's also the reason for the Brownlow vote discrepancy.

For us to do this properly, we probably each need to post our own team (if Lappin is a defender then the defence is indeed stronger but the mids are weaker). I mean the Hawthorn team doesn't have the current captain and best player in it for example.

 

[Sammy1992]

As a Geelong supporter yes maybe I’m bias but I firmly believe we are quite comfortably the best team over the 21st century. Yea maybe I’m bias but here is my reasoning based on The consistency over the 24 years. The question isn’t asking who has the best period within the century as that isn’t the question.
Here is why by comparing the 3 main contenders lions, hawks and cats( not including this season)
Flags
GEE- 4
HAW- 4
BRIS- 3

Grand final appearances( including flags)
GEE- 6
BRIS- 5
HAW- 4

Prelim finals( including flags and grand final appearances and not including 2024 as hawks and lions could still make it).
GEE- 13
BRIS- 7
HAW- 6


Bottom 4 finishes
GEE- 0
HAW- 4
BRIS- 8

Finals appearances:
GEE- 18
HAW- 12
BRIS- 10

Winning percentage H & A
GEE- 68%
HAW- 54%
BRIS- 49%

 

[NetworkNerd]

As a Geelong supporter yes maybe I’m bias but I firmly believe we are quite comfortably the best team over the 21st century. Yea maybe I’m bias but here is my reasoning based on The consistency over the 24 years. The question isn’t asking who has the best period within the century as that isn’t the question.
Here is why by comparing the 3 main contenders lions, hawks and cats( not including this season)
Flags
GEE- 4
HAW- 4
BRIS- 3

Grand final appearances( including flags)
GEE- 6
BRIS- 5
HAW- 4

Prelim finals( including flags and grand final appearances and not including 2024 as hawks and lions could still make it).
GEE- 13
BRIS- 7
HAW- 6


Bottom 4 finishes
GEE- 0
HAW- 4
BRIS- 8

Finals appearances:
GEE- 18
HAW- 12
BRIS- 10

Winning percentage H & A
GEE- 68%
HAW- 54%
BRIS- 49%

Hawks have made 5 GF and 7 prelim finals this century

I guess as a Hawks fan, I am happy with the 7 PF, 5 GF 4 Flag conversion rate. Shows that when we build for something it's usually a winner

 

[Mr Meow]

OP's Geelong team needs to be updated

RUNVS

Geelong

B: Enright, Scarlett, Milburn
HB: Stewart, Taylor, Mackie
C: Duncan, Dangerfield, Holmes
HF: Chapman, Cameron, Miers
F: Johnson, Hawkins, Stengle
Foll: Ottens, Selwood, Ablett
Int: Bartel, Corey, Blicavs, C.Guthrie

Yes it's early days for Holmes and Stengle but it's already clear they are elite for the forward pocket and outside midfielder/rebounding half back hybrid roles.

So, out: James Kelly

James Kelly

Age

40

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.8

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

10.5

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

5.6

5star

MG

273.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

6.8

5star

and Matthew Stokes.

Kelly could potentially displace Cam Guthrie, especially with the latter struggling with injury issues the past two years. But Guthrie did still win two BnFs: in a premiership season and a grand final year.

 

[joe444]

Meh. Is there a prize for this?

If not, I really, really, really don't care. Just happy with my team's four flags, won in four very different ways.

And I'm sure Hawthorn fans, Tiger fans and Lions fans are also pretty happy, all essentially for very similar reasons.

 

[SC_Power]

I might come back to this thread in about 2096/2097, and I’ll have an answer for you.

 

[Philhawk]

Only thing that matters is flags.

It’s Hawks and Cats.

Maybe we will get a new leader by end of season.

 

[Mr Meow]

Meh. Is there a prize for this?

If not, I really, really, really don't care. Just happy with my team's four flags, won in four very different ways.

And I'm sure Hawthorn fans, Tiger fans and Lions fans are also pretty happy, all essentially for very similar reasons.

Read the OP.

Why is nobody reading the OP?

People nominated their clubs team of the century (so far), then this thread talked about the strength of those merged teams.

Like everything in BigFooty and life it is ultimately pointless.

 

[Mr Meow]

Only thing that matters is flags.

It’s Hawks and Cats.

Maybe we will get a new leader by end of season.

Read the OP.

It's not asking who the best performed club is. It's asking which sides team of the century (so far) is the strongest.

 

[RUNVS]

OP's Geelong team needs to be updated

RUNVS

Geelong

B: Enright, Scarlett, Milburn
HB: Stewart, Taylor, Mackie
C: Duncan, Dangerfield, Holmes
HF: Chapman, Cameron, Miers
F: Johnson, Hawkins, Stengle
Foll: Ottens, Selwood, Ablett
Int: Bartel, Corey, Blicavs, C.Guthrie

Yes it's early days for Holmes and Stengle but it's already clear they are elite for the forward pocket and outside midfielder/rebounding half back hybrid roles.

So, out: James Kelly and Matthew Stokes.

Kelly could potentially displace Cam Guthrie, especially with the latter struggling with injury issues the past two years. But Guthrie did still win two BnFs: in a premiership season and a grand final year.

Happy to do that if other Geelong fans agree.

Also I think it is getting to the point where Sydney's team needs modifying too as none of Heeney, Warner or Gulden are in that team and all three should be in strong consideration, especially Heeney.