Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2

[carlton_99]

I've said they wouldn't contend for the flag with their list, and they haven't contended for the flag with their list.

If they contend for the flag this year, Voss has achieved above my expectations this year.

You know full well this does not answer my question. It's either a yes (he has underachieved since taking over in 2022) or it's a no (he hasn't underachieved and has either met or exceeded expectations since taking over in 2022).

 

[Arr0w]

No, come on - you said my post was playing the man after I called you out as a hypocrite.

In what way was it playing the man?

Stop feigning

Back to the OP

Who will be better Fadge, should be a simple response

 

[Fadge]

You know full well this does not answer my question. It's either a yes (he has underachieved since taking over in 2022) or it's a no (he hasn't underachieved and has either met or exceeded expectations since taking over in 2022).

Comprehension really isn't a skill of you guys, is it?

'I've said they wouldn't contend for the flag with their list, and they haven't contended for the flag with their list.' - would be a 'NO, Voss hasn't underachieved with the Carlton list so far'. (In my opinion)

 

[carlton_99]

Comprehension really isn't a skill of you guys, is it?

'I've said they wouldn't contend for the flag with their list, and they haven't contended for the flag with their list.' - would be a 'NO, Voss hasn't underachieved with the Carlton list so far'. (In my opinion)

Yes it's my comprehension skills that are the problem...

 

[beerbandit]

This has nothing to do with my post. The poster I was replying to was saying that because Voss hasn't gone from 17th to a GF in two years like McRae he has underachieved. I'll ask you - do you think Voss has underachieved going from 9th to 5th (PF) and now 2nd at the end of Round 18.

Nope, Voss has been terrific unfortunately !!

 

[Arr0w]

Looks like Pies are slowly losing touch with the 8. Still have a decent enough list but many of their important, older players showing signs of decline

Pies could find themselves in no man's land

 

[beerbandit]

So still 16th then?

 

[carlton_99]

Nope, Voss has been terrific unfortunately !!

You're one poster who I still can't quite gauge when you're being sarcastic or sincere. It's truly a gift

 

[beerbandit]

Looks like Pies are slowly losing touch with the 8. Still have a decent enough list but many of their important, older players showing signs of decline

Pies could find themselves in no man's land

Gold Coast winning was good for us albeit us dropping a spot.

We need to get stuck into the Hawks and Tiges over the next fortnight, and hopefully we have a Geelong like resurgance.

It is possible because the comp is as even as it’s ever been.

 

[Worm4]

It always brings a smile to my face...

Be careful, Collingwood might face a similar predicament albeit without a 1st round draft pick

 

[Mr Meow]

36 wins, 25 losses and 1 draw in H&A since Voss took over is about par for the list he's had. They should be bettering that over the next 3 and a bit years.

It was great for Blues supporters to see a couple of finals wins in 2023, but if you finish outside of top 4 you aren't a realistic shot at a flag (yes, miracles happen and Bulldogs 2016 was just that). This season should be the first of a few where they have a genuine shot at saluting on the last day of September.

 

[Arr0w]

Gold Coast winning was good for us albeit us dropping a spot.

We need to get stuck into the Hawks and Tiges over the next fortnight, and hopefully we have a Geelong like resurgance.

It is possible because the comp is as even as it’s ever been.

Hawks playing good footy, should be a cracking game

 

[Worm4]

Given we're all regularly told that Carlton's top 5 are by far the best top 5 in the league, and that their depth is second to none - you could probably say he's underachieved in not winning the last two flags, and odds on favourites for this year's flag...

Do you remember the pile on I received for daring to suggest Harry McKay hadn't performed in the top 100 players in the competition over 2022/23? When he was 7th in Carlton's B&F in their 9th placed team in 2022, and outside the top 10 in Carlton's B&F in their 5th placed team in 2023?

Well, we have the best , but not the best 5

 

[Fadge]

Be careful, Collingwood might face a similar predicament albeit without a 1st round draft pick

There are a few differences here....

• Carlton won't be the team knocking Collingwood out of the finals with a 1 point victory in the last round of the season;
• Carlton had been building and rebuilding for over two decades, and it meant it was their ninth consecutive season looking on in September. (In case you need reminding, Collingwood have to 2023 flag in their back pocket).

 

[Worm4]

There are a few differences here....

• Carlton won't be the team knocking Collingwood out of the finals with a 1 point victory in the last round of the season;
• Carlton had been building and rebuilding for over two decades, and it meant it was their ninth consecutive season looking on in September. (In case you need reminding, Collingwood have to 2023 flag in their back pocket).

No dead rubbers for the pies this year, so no excuses

 

[beerbandit]

Hawks playing good footy, should be a cracking game

Yep, that and I can count on one hand how many times we’ve beaten them over the last 15 years.

Need to swing the magnets around a little to find a bit more cohesion.

Lachie Schultz out hurts us a little in the pressure department.

I still don’t know how the F Tom Stewart didn’t have to do a SCAT 6 after that collision. Bit of history the Cats in this space as well.

 

[carlton_99]

Yep, that and I can count on one hand how many times we’ve beaten them over the last 15 years.

Need to swing the magnets around a little to find a bit more cohesion.

Lachie Schultz out hurts us a little in the pressure department.

I still don’t know how the F Tom Stewart didn’t have to do a SCAT 6 after that collision. Bit of history the Cats in this space as well.

SCAT = CAT. Conspiracy unlocked...?

 

[beerbandit]

SCAT = CAT. Conspiracy unlocked...?

I’m hearing what you’re throwing out here!

 

[HeathySure]

I knew you were going to mention this. Before finishing 17th in 2021 the Pies were consistently in finals and contending at the very end of the year. The core of that list including experienced players that had achieved some sort of success remained with McRae. You do not have any success in 2022 or 2023 if it wasn't for that core remaining.

Contrastingly, Voss took over a team that had been bottom 6 pretty much every year for 9 years. They hadn't made finals once in that time and had just come off their 119th coaching change in that period. They had no players that had achieved any sort of success and had no real experience to guide them. Our oldest player other than Ed Curnow was probably Sam Docherty/Nic Newman who were 28-29.

Not at all comparable.

of course not. you had multiple high draft picks and a stack of free agents who came to your club and we only had Nick Daicos. We over achieved and you ummm... did not.

 

[jezzajay]

Pies went 17th 4th 1st with a crappier list. Voss is holding you way back

And look at where you are now

 

[PizzaPie]

Collingwood has won 4 games and drawn 2 against sides above it on the ladder. Carlton has lost every game against sides above it on the ladder. The traditional AFL ladder is deceptive, in fact the higher a team sits, the less games against teams above them they tend to have played. E.g. Sydney hasn't even played any side above it yet and on the flip side, Richmond has only played sides above it.

We need a new ladder, and a new 'who will be better' thread, as the current versions of both have been proven compromised beyond any doubt.

 

[jakson68]

You know full well this does not answer my question. It's either a yes (he has underachieved since taking over in 2022) or it's a no (he hasn't underachieved and has either met or exceeded expectations since taking over in 2022).

With Carltons record with coaches, Crazy Vossy getting past two years in the job is exceeding expectations.

 

[Arr0w]

With Carltons record with coaches, Crazy Vossy getting past two years in the job is exceeding expectations.

Perhaps you may have moved on figjam Buckley a little earlier

 

[Robertio]

Collingwood has won 4 games and drawn 2 against sides above it on the ladder. Carlton has lost every game against sides above it on the ladder. The traditional AFL ladder is deceptive, in fact the higher a team sits, the less games against teams above them they tend to have played. E.g. Sydney hasn't even played any side above it yet and on the flip side, Richmond has only played sides above it.

We need a new ladder, and a new 'who will be better' thread, as the current versions of both have been proven compromised beyond any doubt.

Essendon, Pt Adelaide, Melbourne and Fremantle were all ahead of Carlton when we beat them, i don't know where you pulled this from.

 

[Chief]

Still close! Who will it be??