Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[Mr Meow]

The last 3 times the Hawks have played Carlton, Nash has played and Cripps has averaged:

28 Disposals
14 Contested possessions
7.3 Clearances
8 Score Involvements
8 Tackles

"Negated"

A lot of these "Club A vs Club B" threads give off vibes of "Club A supporters half watched 1 or 2 of Club B's games and vice versa".

Which a) makes me think I watch too much footy and b) does question the value of the threads.

"I like my team"
"Well I like my team"

/end thread?

(not disagreeing with you btw, rather some of the weird statements we've seen in here)

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

A lot of these "Club A vs Club B" threads give off vibes of "Club A supporters half watched 1 or 2 of Club B's games and vice versa".

Which a) makes me think I watch too much footy and b) does question the value of the threads.

"I like my team"
"Well I like my team"

/end thread?

I watch every game bar the genuine wooden spoon contests most weeks. Would be able to name just about every player in any given game and tell you my opinion on 90% of them. I agree however, that some posters in these threads don't seem to have watched much of the other team play over the last 24 or so months.

 

[H00t]

Carlton plays a very individualistic game style. It’s based around their top 5 having big games.

Very different to the Hawks who have a much more even spread across the field.

Stat wise the hawks players aren’t going to look as strong but together as a team it’s a much more effective style and should hold us in good stead as they mature as a group.

 

[Thrawn]

Top 8 sides don't go 0 - 60 in an Elimination Final, either...

GWS were one of the best 4 sides in 2024, despite failing to make a Preliminary Final.

The end result was a 28 point loss, not 128. Top 8 sides make the top 8. If Freo (or you for that matter) were good enough, you would've been there instead.

Well they're clearly not if they failed when it was most important - especially considering how it was done.

 

[Thrawn]

I did say moving forward! But that last game we played where the Hawks absolutely smashed Carlton Cripps and Nash had the same amount of possessions so I guess that’s close to being “Negated” . Love this pic even while going for his throat …. he ain’t going anywhere

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You were playing a benchless Carlton, to be fair.

 

[matey]

You were playing a benchless Carlton, to be fair.

Yeah at the end ….. but the game was essentially turned/done when Cunrow and a bench was still available. Was at the game but Cunrow went off in the 3rd from memory? can’t remember

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah at the end ….. but the game was essentially turned/done when Cunrow and a bench was still available. Was at the game but Cunrow went off in the 3rd from memory? can’t remember

Two players off in the first quarter, then a few spread out throughout the match.

Curnow shouldn't have even played. Took a big risk playing him, he was proppy for the past few weeks. But of course, Brad Lloyd's wisdom shone through.

 

[matey]

Two players off in the first quarter, then a few spread out throughout the match.

Curnow shouldn't have even played. Took a big risk playing him, he was proppy for the past few weeks. But of course, Brad Lloyd's wisdom shone through.

Don’t know the Carlton list well enough but every player walking out on the field is expected to be close to 100% and if their 22-28 player is not better than that player carrying an injury well depth could be an issue.

Hawks didn’t have a player on the bench in the 2008 granny but still won. Croad went down in the first few minutes, Young and Ellis didn’t see most of the game and there was someone else

 

[carlton_99]

Carlton plays a very individualistic game style. It’s based around their top 5 having big games.

Very different to the Hawks who have a much more even spread across the field.

Stat wise the hawks players aren’t going to look as strong but together as a team it’s a much more effective style and should hold us in good stead as they mature as a group.

Playing to your strengths is not an individualistic game plan but instead using the personnel you have to establish a system where players have very clear roles they can execute. Since Voss has taken over this has largely been to establish a very strong contested brand of footy due to a more inside-heavy midfield core (Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy etc). Another factor is our strong key position forwards in Curnow and McKay that excel in one-on-one situations and so we try and get the ball long to them. This may not look pretty at times but it has been largely effective at turning us from a bottom 6 club to a team that has made back to back finals series and have made it to a Preliminary Final for the first time since 2000.

Carlton just like any other team play their best football when they have an even spread of performances across the field. This is not the NBA and teams do not win games because of 4 or 5 players playing well and so I don't believe for one second that our game style is "individualistic". The focus is always going to be on a team's best players especially when they are as good as the ones we have but Carlton don't win games in 2024 without significant performances from the likes of Nic Newman, Blake Acres, Elijah Hollands, Lachie Fogarty, Mitch McGovern, George Hewett, Adam Saad, Jordan Boyd, Alex Cincotta, Zac Williams etc. These types of players executing their role is critical to Carlton performing at their best and we have won games without our core group playing that well because of those players.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Playing to your strengths is not an individualistic game plan but instead using the personnel you have to establish a system where players have very clear roles they can execute. Since Voss has taken over this has largely been to establish a very strong contested brand of footy due to a more inside-heavy midfield core (Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy etc). Another factor is our strong key position forwards in Curnow and McKay that excel in one-on-one situations and so we try and get the ball long to them. This may not look pretty at times but it has been largely effective at turning us from a bottom 6 club to a team that has made back to back finals series and have made it to a Preliminary Final for the first time since 2000.

Carlton just like any other team play their best football when they have an even spread of performances across the field. This is not the NBA and teams do not win games because of 4 or 5 players playing well and so I don't believe for one second that our game style is "individualistic". The focus is always going to be on a team's best players especially when they are as good as the ones we have but Carlton don't win games in 2024 without significant performances from the likes of Nic Newman, Blake Acres, Elijah Hollands, Lachie Fogarty, Mitch McGovern, George Hewett, Adam Saad, Jordan Boyd etc. These types of players executing their role is critical to Carlton performing at their best and we have won games without our core group playing that well because of those players.

It's as if Richmond in 2017 didn't build their entire game plan around maximizing Dusty, Rance, Reiwoltd and Cotchin. Must have imagined it.

Always entertaining to find out from oppo fans that outside our top 5-6 players we don't actually field a team at all, they just watch from the sidelines or something.

 

[carlton_99]

A lot of these "Club A vs Club B" threads give off vibes of "Club A supporters half watched 1 or 2 of Club B's games and vice versa".

Which a) makes me think I watch too much footy and b) does question the value of the threads.

"I like my team"
"Well I like my team"

/end thread?

(not disagreeing with you btw, rather some of the weird statements we've seen in here)

I agree with this to a large extent. We have had some disagreements on footy matters in the past but I think it's clear from those conversations that you watch a lot of non-Geelong games. Hopefully I have come across in a similar way to you as well - my SuperCoach addiction makes watching most games each week pretty much a must. And so my opinions on any footy matter in these more serious threads are 100% genuine and only made if I feel like I'm informed on the topic.

Where we may disagree slightly is I don't think having people that just know their team well in these threads diminishes the value of the thread. I kind of like it because it's a good way to get a gauge of your own thoughts about a certain team with the fans of that team that watch them and more importantly analyse them more than anyone. Something like the Day/Newcombe discussion was really interesting as I probably have a different opinion to most on this thread. I would actually take Day before Newcombe if I was building a team tomorrow - I rate both highly but prefer Day's skillset just a bit more. But hearing the thoughts of the Hawks fans on here will make me pay more attention to the stuff Newcombe is doing. So I guess there are positives and negatives.

 

[Fadge]

The end result was a 28 point loss, not 128. Top 8 sides make the top 8. If Freo (or you for that matter) were good enough, you would've been there instead.

Well they're clearly not if they failed when it was most important - especially considering how it was done.

It was in response to your comment 'Top 4 sides don't blow out in straight sets'.

If the ladder can be skewed at the end of home and away with 'false' top 4 sides, why can't it also be skewed with 'false' 5th to 8th sides?

And why can't GWS be rated a top 4 side, if they lost both their finals to the eventual Grand Finalists by a combined margin of 8 points (and also finished the home and away season in the top 4)?