Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[CarmenSandiego]

The detail really aint that complex.

Figure out what you believe is important to winning (in baseball it is not getting out when at bat) and find players who actually consistently produce at a decent level against quality opposition.

The As big premise was to not fall for the hype and potential of a high school kid who looks good and has "potential"...especially because as soon as they get off their rookie contract a big club will swoop and just buy them anyway.

So focus on ready made players who are performing in minors/college against quality opposition as a much better probability of making a direct impact in the majors.

Oh boy. You lot are so far up your own asses it's hilarious. The recruiting of guys like Perryman & Houston are not Moneyball type recruits, it's legitimately the opposite. And once again, it goes so far beyond focusing on 'ready-made' players.

Hatterberg was a player the As identified as a mature player who would step straight into their best team who would give them 5-6 quality seasons, Perrymen expectation is the same from the Pies.

Hatterberg was released from the Red Sox - he wasn't one of the most in-demand free agents in the league in his prime.

Hatteberg was signed as a free agent, so was Perrymen.

Wow, FA signing = Moneyball, right?

I'll remind you, Hatteberg was released from the Red Sox. Equivalent to delisted - you're better off using an example of a DFA - not a former 1st rounder in his prime.

Hatteberg went to a team that wanted to contend and win, so has Perrymen.

A's have no choice but to try & contend, given the inequities of the MLB. You know that, though. Hatteberg went to the A's as they valued him despite his surgery & backed him to play first base, it was the most secure for his career - not because the A's were a good chance of winning.

Hatteberg hit the ground running, producing more for the As in his first year than he had ever done at the Redsox as they gave him a bigger role, that is the expectation for Perrymen.

He was redeployed as first base which was completely foreign. Perryman was a former 1st rounder & midfielder as a junior and in his prime. It ain't moneyball!

Hatteberg helped the As make AL division series in post season in his first year, equivalent of AFL top4 and playing in a QF, that is the expectation for Perrymen.

Even if Perryman helps Collingwood achieve similar, it ain't near the same.

Meanwhile with Pick 3, the Cincinatti Reds (a dominant team MBL team in the 1970s) took a high school pitcher. He amounted to nothing. The Reds didn't have a winning season until 2010, and havent even made a NL Championship Series (AFL PF equivalent) in the 21st century.

That's nice. Shoehi Otani who is looking like the legitimate GOAT right now would've certainly got at the #1 pick if he wasn't an International signing. There are 7 all stars running around from the previous 5 1st rounds of the draft. There's 6 World Series champs from the past 10.

Both strategies can work. The idea that clubs like Collingwood (the richest club in the land) take the 'moneyball' approach by signing Free Agents in their prime is absolute fart-sniffing rubbish.

 

[Worm4]

Here endeth the lesson on moneyball

 

[Fadge]

Maybe Carlton should be using more of a Moneyball approach to their list build?

God knows nothing else has worked for them...

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Maybe Carlton should be using more of a Moneyball approach to their list build?

God knows nothing else has worked for them...

Applying Sabermetrics to football doesn't work. Thought you'd know this as a VCE Maths wizard?

 

[Fadge]

Applying Sabermetrics to football doesn't work. Thought you'd know this as a VCE Maths wizard?

Of course it would work with football.

If you use analytics to identify skills, traits, etc. of a footballer that you can recruit at a reduced cost because:
A) it is of more benefit to your team than others, and
B) other teams have not performed the same level of analysis

It will absolutely be of benefit to your club.

 

[carlton_99]

Maybe Carlton should be using more of a Moneyball approach to their list build?

God knows nothing else has worked for them...

Blake Acres
Nic Newman
Elijah Hollands
George Hewett

I can't speak to the specific analytics used to pick up these players but they have definitely outperformed what was considered their market value regarding salary and/or draft capital

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Of course it would work with football.

If you use analytics to identify skills, traits, etc. of a footballer that you can recruit at a reduced cost because:
A) it is of more benefit to your team than others, and
B) other teams have not performed the same level of analysis

It will absolutely be of benefit to your club.

sabermetrics is for baseball you drongo.

you going to try and redefine that too?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I'm glad you are seeing things clearly now- chalking up 2024 as a moral flag for the dirty birders?

2-0 is not just a moral victory. We actually got a real trophy for the achievement too.
What did you guys get for Owen 60 again? ...oh that's right...just more humiliation.

 

[Fadge]

sabermetrics is for baseball you drongo.

you going to try and redefine that too?

The term originated from baseball, but has since evolved to be (loosely) used for sports analytics in general.

Regardless, in my response I referred to 'analytics' - the intent is the same.

 

[JustaBattler]

2-0 is not just a moral victory. We actually got a real trophy for the achievement too.
What did you guys get for Owen 60 again? ...oh that's right...just more humiliation.

Humiliation is fluking a flag win and then noit even being able to beat (suppossed spud teams) into finals...

that is 'humiliation' my friend.

 

[Fadge]

Humiliation is fluking a flag win and then noit even being able to beat (suppossed spud teams) into finals...

that is 'humiliation' my friend.

Humiliation is spending a quarter of a century building and rebuilding your list, and still not being good enough to contend for a premiership let alone win one.

Oh, and accumulate 5 spoons along the way.

That is 'humiliation'.

 

[JustaBattler]

Humiliation is spending a quarter of a century building and rebuilding your list, and still not being good enough to contend for a premiership let alone win one.

Oh, and accumulate 5 spoons along the way.

That is 'humiliation'.

LOL - like anyone cares about random numbers from the distant past - except flag wins for banter.

I'm enjoying the certainty of the coming years as far as which of our Clubs is going to have it over the other - and here is a clue- it isn your dirty birds.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Question for my fellow Pies supporters:

If you were given only two choices in 2025; would you choose:
A. To finish 8th ahead of Carlton in 9th thanks to percentage and double ups against bottom 4 teams. Lose to Carlton twice. Then go on to lose in humiliating fashion in the first final.
Or:
B. Finish 9th below Carlton in 8th but beat them twice during the year in heartbreaking fashion ( for them). Then get to watch them humiliate themselves in the final with Owen 60.
?

It's B by a million miles for me. What about you guys?

 

[JustaBattler]

looky looky - even the dirty bird faithhful are nwo conceding theat they arent good enough to play finals and want to focus on H&A wins rto add to their long list of meaningless gbberish stats!!

juicy!

 

[Fadge]

LOL - like anyone cares about random numbers from the distant past - except flag wins for banter.

I'm enjoying the certainty of the coming years as far as which of our Clubs is going to have it over the other - and here is a clue- it isn your dirty birds.

Sorry, the numbers aren't random.

They're real.

A Quarter of a Century without contending for a flag;

5 wooden spoons along the way.

I'll throw in another one:

13 - Carlton's median finishing ladder position this century.

Humiliating!

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Humiliation is fluking a flag win and then noit even being able to beat (suppossed spud teams) into finals...

that is 'humiliation' my friend.

Yet the new Oxford dictionary definition of "humiliation" cites "Carlton in the 21st Century" as a contextual example.

 

[JustaBattler]

Sorry, the numbers aren't random.

They're real.

A Quarter of a Century without contending for a flag;

5 wooden spoons along the way.

I'll throw in another one:

13 - Carlton's median finishing ladder position this century.

Humiliating!

balah blah imaginary fudgeyfications blah blah blah

Yet the new Oxford dictionary definition of "humiliation" cites "Carlton in the 21st Century" as a contextual example.

you couldnt read a dictionary - stop pretending please!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Oh, the Carlton desperation is at all time high today. Clutching at something, clutching at anything. When you are the most pathetic club in modern football you will try any angle. The Blueshakes are happening already.

 

[JustaBattler]

Oh, the Carlton desperation is at all time high today. Clutching at something, clutching at anything. When you are the most pathetic club in modern football you will try any angle. The Blueshakes are happening already.

I'm chewing on a lovely home made curried egg sandwhich atm - and giving you dirty birds some curry too

wanna bite?

 

[South of the Yarra]

I'm chewing on a lovely home made curried egg sandwhich atm - and giving you dirty birds some curry too

wanna bite?

Thank you for the exceptionally kind offer but this Steak Sandwich has me sated.

 

[Ctracks]

Geriatric Carlton flogs sure are cocky this time of year.

 

[Fadge]

Geriatric Carlton flogs sure are cocky this time of year.

Best time of the year to be a Carlton supporter!

The hope.
The expectation.

Before the inevitable disappointment comes in June, July or August next year...

 

[Worm4]

Sorry, the numbers aren't random.

They're real.

A Quarter of a Century without contending for a flag;

5 wooden spoons along the way.

I'll throw in another one:

13 - Carlton's median finishing ladder position this century.

Humiliating!

Groundhog day daily news brought to you by Fadge

 

[Worm4]

Geriatric Carlton flogs sure are cocky this time of year.

Your geriatric football team says hello

 

[JustaBattler]

Best time of the year to be a Carlton supporter!

The hope.
The expectation.

Before the inevitable disappointment comes in June, July or August next year...

Fudgey fudgey fudgey - can hit a high draw? No?

oh well....

do go on about a foozball Club over which you have zero influence or control ...

hilarious mate just hilarious.

anyway back to the topic at hand- why is it that the average dirty birder has less toofs than the average Carltn supporter?