Who will be better in 2025? Saints, Demons or Bombers
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Saints4ever
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MaCrae giving some inside grunt will help Steele also.
rye
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its amazing the thumb, the knee, the fitness gets a mention but not the underlying issue.
to put it kindly his 'professionalism' over the last two seasons has been dreadful. you dont get floated as trade bait two years running if there arent serious ongoing concerns.
He won the AFLCA vote in 2022 for a second time and also made AA for a third time. You know, the year after 2021.
He's 27. He's seven and a half years younger than Dangerfield and nearly 10 younger than Pendlebury.
You'd have to be a very odd person to suggest a midfielder is done at 27 after a poor 18 months, mainly due to injury.
No disrespect, but your opinion is useless to me.
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I don’t think it’s his injuries that anyone is worried have hurt his chances of getting back to where he was.
Sport is littered with examples of personal issues be they mental health issues, addiction issues (and no I’m not suggesting he has one I’m just using it as an example), motivation issues, or players simply can’t recapture whatever it was that made them great in the first place.
A really good rugby league example is Anthony Milford: he played for Canberra and was absolutely dynamic there and had the world at his feet and left and went to Brisbane and started out where he left off and got a couple of games at State of Origin level as recognition.
Had a few issues just with not seeming to be able to find his role within the side, some injuries, or his best position and by the time he was 26 he basically was told he didn’t have a spot anymore and he’s had a couple of stints with Newcastle and the Dolphins since and now he’s playing Queensland Cup and won’t probably play NRL again.
There is absolutely no reason to suggest Oliver will suffer the same fate of course. But it does happen, with seemingly no rhyme or reason, from time to time.
No need for the ad hominem with the "you'd have to be nuts" stuff. You're usually better than that. We disagree about whether Oliver will return to his Coaches Association winning best form in 2025. That's fine. And your last sentence tells me you aren't interested in any sincere discussion anyway.
craffles
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All three sides had 11 wins in 2024 so you’re really trying to predict who has upside and who might slide.
Given the dees top line players should all be fit I can see them climbing. Saints have added Macrae and their kids get another year but I think their list is meh and well Essendon are just essendon these days .
1. Melbourne (climb)
2. Saints (hold / slide)
3. Essendon (slide)
Given the dees top line players should all be fit I can see them climbing. Saints have added Macrae and their kids get another year but I think their list is meh and well Essendon are just essendon these days .
1. Melbourne (climb)
2. Saints (hold / slide)
3. Essendon (slide)
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Seattle Mariners
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St Kilda then Melbourne then Essendon.
Saints, I hope 
Clive Kepler
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Sainters time to shine.
Being devil's advocate..I'm not saying you will go backwards but reasons you may:
1. Can't kick enough goals
2. No backup if Marshall gets injured
3. No Battle (3rd in b and f)
All fair points, but we averaged 90 points scored over the final 6 weeks of last season (the premiers averaged 94 across the year) and a third tall defender is one of the easiest roles to cover - particular in a side that emphasizes team defence and hard defensive running from the mids. So we do have the ability to hit the scoreboard when in form and the likes of Schoenmaker, Caminiti, Barrat and Tauru will all be competing for Battle's spot.
If Marshall goes down we don't have a proven AFL level replacement, but we'd be hoping one of Boyd (26 year old physical beast, best player in SANFL last year) or Heath (22 year old 204cm ruck who has been steadily improving in the VFL for 4 seasons) will be able to hold their own.
I think we'll likely win about as many games as we lose in 2025 and then start climbing up into the top 6 next year when our kids are starting to hit their prime. 2026-2028 should be a strong period where we still have Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie and Marshall as veterans plus Nas, Pou, King, Owens, Windhager, Higgins, Sharman, Caminiti, Wilson, Garcia in their prime.
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A premiership chance you reckon during that period? (serious question)
I wouldn't say it's likely, but there's a chance if things fall our way. More often than not, the premiers aren't usually the team with the best list. They're the team that managed to do better than the others at the right time of the year. I'd realistically give us a 15% chance of a flag each year in that period.
Look at this campaigner after 30 years of the worst football ever produced.
And he's probably 29.
You support Carlton.
Dees have the most potential if they can rediscover the magic. Should rise, might stagnate, unlikely to slide. Anything but finals and Goodie aught be gone.
Saints will rise as the kids improve but who knows when that'll actually happen. They need everything to go right for a change. Macrae will help a lot and l wouldn't expect another down year from Phillipou, Owens or Windhager.
Bombers are in real trouble. Scott is a bit of a nothing coach, list is very iffy, 1st round picks haven't come on and the Tassie drafts are on the horizon. Won't break their finals drought till the 2030's now.
Saints will rise as the kids improve but who knows when that'll actually happen. They need everything to go right for a change. Macrae will help a lot and l wouldn't expect another down year from Phillipou, Owens or Windhager.
Bombers are in real trouble. Scott is a bit of a nothing coach, list is very iffy, 1st round picks haven't come on and the Tassie drafts are on the horizon. Won't break their finals drought till the 2030's now.
Kids improving is good and I think those at the Saints will, but it should also include a mix of coaching and a filling of positional needs. Playing devil's advocate here, Saints had the opportunity to fill a position need (the midfield) but didn't. Very "iffy" list building. Not only that but let's be honest, Lyon's appointment was mostly nostalgia-driven. We've seen him take over lists that we're near complete (2 years before '09 Saints and 1 year before '14 Freo) but we've never seen him build a list from it's knees. Still question marks on if he can manage that. Shares the same win-loss ratio with Essendon's Scott since 2023.
As for the Bombers, 2025 is a bit of a transition year and it was to be expected having taken a big hit on average age (and that's with Goldy still in the side). Thus, I expect us to be pretty raw with an emphasis on exponential improvement from 2026+ onwards.
Positionally we're okay and we've outdone ourselves in the PSD/MSD. Tsatas is reportedly generating hype this pre-season. Caddy, Kako, as well as two 1st rounders next year and your 2nd in the span of 12 months should be enough drafting long before Tassie. Any serious Bomber fan would tell you we're just about past the drafting era. It's about development/putting games into kids now.
Martin (23), Durham (23), and Caldwell (24) as a collective is where I think our biggest drive will come from in the coming years. Seeing them at 26+ and 150+ games will be where we will see the side push it's boundaries.
Our biggest issues have always been stability, making hard calls and consistency. Think we've addressed those well since 2022. It will now be a matter of holding it together for the long-term. You can break all the finals droughts in the world but it's just as much as zero if you don't come away with a flag.
L_W_P
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Melbourne's biggest issue is the coach/game plan. If Goodwin sticks to his guns I think it'll be another down year for that group who are clearly screaming out for a change in approach.
For the Saints the issue is execution. People will bag Lyon but the Saints moved the footy as fast and effectively as anyone the last few years but fell down horribly once the ball went inside 50. If they can work out getting the most out of King, without sending all of their entries through him, they should improve.
I honestly don't know what Essendon's issue is. On paper they seem to have the talent. In 2024 they were sitting top 4 well into the season and then just... nothing. Losing 30-40 goals from Stinger hurts. I don't think they have a single player that will replace that volume so they'll look to Moneyball it between Caddy, Kako, Gresham & Langford.
The improvement probably comes from their talls forward of centre.
What's the mix with Draper/Bryan/Goldstein?
Is Peter Wright capable of holding down FF effectively or does he need to be getting ruck time as well?
Harry Jones off the wing, pushing forward for a mismatch, was an interesting move that I hope they stick with.
They also need to work out what they are doing with Cox. He shows glimpses but seems like a man without a position. If Reid isn't going to be reliable at CHB with his injuries then maybe that's the spot?
If Goodwin opens the team up then the Dees should finish top 4-6.
I think the Saints will be in that 7th-10th bracket again.
Essendon are honestly an enigma. They could go on a run and make top 4 or have the bottom fall out and drop to the 12-16 range. I can't confidently rate them above the other two at this stage.
For the Saints the issue is execution. People will bag Lyon but the Saints moved the footy as fast and effectively as anyone the last few years but fell down horribly once the ball went inside 50. If they can work out getting the most out of King, without sending all of their entries through him, they should improve.
I honestly don't know what Essendon's issue is. On paper they seem to have the talent. In 2024 they were sitting top 4 well into the season and then just... nothing. Losing 30-40 goals from Stinger hurts. I don't think they have a single player that will replace that volume so they'll look to Moneyball it between Caddy, Kako, Gresham & Langford.
The improvement probably comes from their talls forward of centre.
What's the mix with Draper/Bryan/Goldstein?
Is Peter Wright capable of holding down FF effectively or does he need to be getting ruck time as well?
Harry Jones off the wing, pushing forward for a mismatch, was an interesting move that I hope they stick with.
They also need to work out what they are doing with Cox. He shows glimpses but seems like a man without a position. If Reid isn't going to be reliable at CHB with his injuries then maybe that's the spot?
If Goodwin opens the team up then the Dees should finish top 4-6.
I think the Saints will be in that 7th-10th bracket again.
Essendon are honestly an enigma. They could go on a run and make top 4 or have the bottom fall out and drop to the 12-16 range. I can't confidently rate them above the other two at this stage.
Clearly Melbourne for me. They severely underperformed last year with all their off field issues but they were a 16-17 wins team before that and still have the players there to return to that sort of form. I couldn't see them being any worse this year than last year and their worst is about par for the other two
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