Who will be better in 2025? Saints, Demons or Bombers

[jdstorm]

Essendon rebuilding? They've been 'rebuilding' for the last decade. That nonsense is supposed to work on delusional club members, not opposition supporters.

They are not as young as the misleading average list age stat suggests. Only Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane and Sydney had a more experienced actual playing list last year. They only debuted two new players while four experienced recruits played - that's generally not how a rebuild works.

They have dropped their relative average age down because they got rid of some older list cloggers who have already been replaced and replaced them with draftees. Getting rid of a fat, undisciplined Stringer doesn't mean you are 'rebuilding'.

They will have plenty of experience and will have no excuses if Brad Scott can't move up the ladder with a relatively talented list.

Yeah we have. When you hire dodgy builders things don’t get done so well.

Thankfully they are gone now.

I agree the list has some talent sprinkled through but what it lacks is balance and reliable depth.

For instance our projected forward line is Draper Caddy Langford Perkins Gresham Kako

Only Caddy and Kako are young, Langford has been there abouts AA. But Draper, Perkins and Gresham aren’t exactly reliable performers. Drapers barely played FF after being moved there last year cause he’s a rubbish ruck. Perkins a former top 10 pick who spent some time in the VFL due to a lack of form and Gresham who saints didn’t want.

Best case scenario that’s a decent group. With Peter Wright and Guelfi as depth

It’s also only got a history of not being very good. So that’s its most likely outcome.

Our midfield being good hinges on Tsatas having a breakout year and might still be too small.

Backline has the most talent/depth but also might rely heavily on Andy McGrath maintaining a season of good ball use. And if injuries hit a bunch of first year HBs

 

[HirdsTheWord]

not us.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yeah we have. When you hire dodgy builders things don’t get done so well.

Thankfully they are gone now.

I agree the list has some talent sprinkled through but what it lacks is balance and reliable depth.

For instance our projected forward line is Draper Caddy Langford Perkins Gresham Kako

Only Caddy and Kako are young, Langford has been there abouts AA. But Draper, Perkins and Gresham aren’t exactly reliable performers. Drapers barely played FF after being moved there last year cause he’s a rubbish ruck. Perkins a former top 10 pick who spent some time in the VFL due to a lack of form and Gresham who saints didn’t want.

Best case scenario that’s a decent group. With Peter Wright and Guelfi as depth

It’s also only got a history of not being very good. So that’s its most likely outcome.

Our midfield being good hinges on Tsatas having a breakout year and might still be too small.

Backline has the most talent/depth but also might rely heavily on Andy McGrath maintaining a season of good ball use. And if injuries hit a bunch of first year HBs

lol

our backline relies on much more than that.

it relies on Zach Reid and Jordan Ridley not being perennially injured. Which to date would be long odds at best.

Our Backline with and without Ridley is as black and white as i have ever seen a backline.

he is in, we are good, he is out we are woeful.

 

[jdstorm]

lol

our backline relies on much more than that.

it relies on Zach Reid and Jordan Ridley not being perennially injured. Which to date would be long odds at best.

Our Backline with and without Ridley is as black and white as i have ever seen a backline.

he is in, we are good, he is out we are woeful.

I’m not as worried about Reid/Ridley being injured. I’m bullish on Hayes as the 2nd tall and think Prior/Cox are acceptable/competent Medium defenders.

I think where our defence struggles is generating momentum. Ridley is also our defensive QB and when he’s out we don’t have a decent user back there.

We’re currently trialling Sheil there to pair with McGrath and possibly Roberts in this critical role but yeah I’m not overly confident in any of those players playing that position effectively.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I’m not as worried about Reid/Ridley being injured. I’m bullish on Hayes as the 2nd tall and think Prior/Cox are acceptable/competent Medium defenders.

I think where our defence struggles is generating momentum. Ridley is also our defensive QB and when he’s out we don’t have a decent user back there.

We’re currently trialling Sheil there to pair with McGrath and possibly Roberts in this critical role but yeah I’m not overly confident in any of those players playing that position effectively.

I am, less so Reid because who knows if he is good or rubbish, never seen the bloke play enough but our backline with and without Ridley is stark.

 

[Toump Ass]

Being lumped in with junk like saints and bombers what a fall from grace for the once-mighty Melbourne Demons.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Being lumped in with junk like saints and bombers what a fall from grace for the once-mighty Melbourne Demons.

Agreed!

It’s recency bias.

Too much quality on the Melb list to sit at this level.

Bottom half of the 8 for mine.

Heads will roll if the Deed miss the 8.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Yeah we have. When you hire dodgy builders things don’t get done so well.

Thankfully they are gone now.

I agree the list has some talent sprinkled through but what it lacks is balance and reliable depth.

For instance our projected forward line is Draper Caddy Langford Perkins Gresham Kako

Only Caddy and Kako are young, Langford has been there abouts AA. But Draper, Perkins and Gresham aren’t exactly reliable performers. Drapers barely played FF after being moved there last year cause he’s a rubbish ruck. Perkins a former top 10 pick who spent some time in the VFL due to a lack of form and Gresham who saints didn’t want.

Best case scenario that’s a decent group. With Peter Wright and Guelfi as depth

It’s also only got a history of not being very good. So that’s its most likely outcome.

Our midfield being good hinges on Tsatas having a breakout year and might still be too small.

Backline has the most talent/depth but also might rely heavily on Andy McGrath maintaining a season of good ball use. And if injuries hit a bunch of first year HBs

I'm not saying Essendon is perfect or that its forward line in particular won't be unsettled. I'm just saying that it's not in a rebuild - a word that has been abused nearly beyond all meaning, but certainly does not apply to Essendon's current situation.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I’m not as worried about Reid/Ridley being injured. I’m bullish on Hayes as the 2nd tall and think Prior/Cox are acceptable/competent Medium defenders.

I think where our defence struggles is generating momentum. Ridley is also our defensive QB and when he’s out we don’t have a decent user back there.

We’re currently trialling Sheil there to pair with McGrath and possibly Roberts in this critical role but yeah I’m not overly confident in any of those players playing that position effectively.

Yikes Nik Cox

 

[TheUnicorn]

I am, less so Reid because who knows if he is good or rubbish, never seen the bloke play enough but our backline with and without Ridley is stark.

Well he's injured now

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Well he's injured now

did i jinx it?

 

[TheUnicorn]

did i jinx it?

He's just not made of the right stardust

 

[markm106]

Injuries at this time of year like the saints have is pretty dire. These guys end up playing catch up. Gonna be tough for them especially if you get anymore injuries.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

Saints not having much luck on injury front this pre season it seems

Haven't for 3 years now

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yeah we have. When you hire dodgy builders things don’t get done so well.

Thankfully they are gone now.

I agree the list has some talent sprinkled through but what it lacks is balance and reliable depth.

For instance our projected forward line is Draper Caddy Langford Perkins Gresham Kako

Only Caddy and Kako are young, Langford has been there abouts AA. But Draper, Perkins and Gresham aren’t exactly reliable performers. Drapers barely played FF after being moved there last year cause he’s a rubbish ruck. Perkins a former top 10 pick who spent some time in the VFL due to a lack of form and Gresham who saints didn’t want.

Best case scenario that’s a decent group. With Peter Wright and Guelfi as depth

It’s also only got a history of not being very good. So that’s its most likely outcome.

Our midfield being good hinges on Tsatas having a breakout year and might still be too small.

Backline has the most talent/depth but also might rely heavily on Andy McGrath maintaining a season of good ball use. And if injuries hit a bunch of first year HBs

7665 days of rebuilding

 

[jdstorm]

7665 days of rebuilding

Yup. Pretty much.

Hope to see everyone at our big 21st party this year

 

[Lars27]

Essendon rebuilding? They've been 'rebuilding' for the last decade. That nonsense is supposed to work on delusional club members, not opposition supporters.

They are not as young as the misleading average list age stat suggests. Only Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane and Sydney had a more experienced actual playing list last year. They only debuted two new players while four experienced recruits played - that's generally not how a rebuild works.

They have dropped their relative average age down because they got rid of some older list cloggers who have already been replaced and replaced them with draftees. Getting rid of a fat, undisciplined Stringer doesn't mean you are 'rebuilding'.

They will have plenty of experience and will have no excuses if Brad Scott can't move up the ladder with a relatively talented list.

We haven't been rebuilding for a decade - we didn't take any first rounders between 2017-19 and didn't let Daniher go because we were trying to push up the laddder. After we lost him and a few other players like Saad, Mckenna, Hurley etc. we focused on rebuilding via the draft again.

Our average playing list age and games played for last season was 7th highest. I am not sure where you got your info from. I don't expect Goldstein to play much next season and Stringer, Heppell and Kelly have left. So that will go down significantly (we are rated 14th oldest and 11th most experienced list for 2025, and the playing list age/experience will certainly go down too).

I disagree that we aren't rebuilding because we played 'four experienced recruits' and debuted only two players.
Essendon debuted 7 players in both 2021/22 (near the top) so it makes sense that they would have less debutants in the following couple of years. For example Adelaide had a lot of debutants in 2020/21, but much less the next two years.

Plus we traded Stringer, (one of our best goal kickers), dropped Wright and kept playing Caddy (a first year KPF) and traded for future draft picks. Those aren't the actions of a team focused on winning now.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

We haven't been rebuilding for a decade - we didn't take any first rounders between 2017-19 and didn't let Daniher go because we were trying to push up the laddder. After we lost him and a few other players like Saad, Mckenna, Hurley etc. we focused on rebuilding via the draft again.

Our average playing list age and games played for last season was 7th highest. I am not sure where you got your info from. I don't expect Goldstein to play much next season and Stringer, Heppell and Kelly have left. So that will go down significantly (we are rated 14th oldest and 11th most experienced list for 2025, and the playing list age/experience will certainly go down too).

I disagree that we aren't rebuilding because we played 'four experienced recruits' and debuted only two players.
Essendon debuted 7 players in both 2021/22 (near the top) so it makes sense that they would have less debutants in the following couple of years. For example Adelaide had a lot of debutants in 2020/21, but much less the next two years.

Plus we traded Stringer, (one of our best goal kickers), dropped Wright and kept playing Caddy (a first year KPF) and traded for future draft picks. Those aren't the actions of a team trying to win now.

Your playing list for 2024 was equal 6th for average games (I must have missed a team when I thought you were equal 5th) and equal 7th for age according to Wheelo Ratings.

You had the same average age and only average games separating you from Melbourne in 2024, who people seem to think is a much older and more experienced team.

Median age is a much better stat anyway. An Essendon fan on reddit, I will have to take his word for it, showed that while you had a median age of 23 for the list, which is definitely quite young, your best 23 had a median age of 26. Now, I don't know the relative comparison, but I would wager that would put Essendon again in the top 3rd of the competition for best 23s. 26 is not young.

The only experienced player Essendon has lost that would be in its best 23 in 2025 is Stringer. All the while important players like Caldwell, Durham and Martin have edged close to prime years. Generally, you should be a better team than 2024.

Essendon will likely make the 8 this year and I tip them to break the finals win hoodoo. You can allow your club to clutch to its pre-excuse age safety blanket if that fails, but that's all it is. No reason that team shouldn't be playing finals.

 

[jdstorm]

I’d say a better term for essendons list position is remodelling.

There’s a fair bit of prime age talent there. Potentially 5 AA level guys (Ridley, Martin, Merrett, Parish and Langford)

But it also has massive flaws Cheif of which is the ability to cleanly move the ball in transition, Especially in defence without Ridley. Then there’s contested marking. Contested groundball and forward pressure.

The guys were asking to improve those spots are Tsatas, Roberts, Reid, SEH, Kako who might not even have 10 games between them.

A team is only as strong as its weakest players and when over 20% of your projected best side hasn’t played much AFL there’s reason to be skeptical

 

[Call Me Cake]

This bollocks 'rebuilding' narrative is just a pre-excuse in the case of failure.

You're obsessed in making it seem like it's a pre-excuse because it stems from your own insecurity about the Pies being so old.

I am quite bullish that Essendon will make the finals and it won't be because of some fake baby bombers miracle.

You're not bullish, you're pushing a narrative on purpose.

 

[Call Me Cake]

You had the same average age and only average games separating you from Melbourne in 2024

Melbourne's older players are elite. Our older players are not. Our ideal best 23 wouldn't be Goldy, it'd be Draper. It wouldn't be Laverde, it'd be Reid.

The only experienced player Essendon has lost that would be in its best 23 in 2025 is Stringer.

Stringer (30), Kelly (30), Heppell (32), Hind (30) all had their hands in the main team. Goldy (36) played early on. All influenced the median age.

You can allow your club to clutch to its pre-excuse age safety blanket if that fails, but that's all it is.

Rebuild started on and off the field 2 years ago and we're in the later stages of it now. 23.9 and about 100 games avg on experience.

All the while important players like Caldwell, Durham and Martin have edged close to prime years.

Caldwell (24) 78 games - Durham (23) 71 games - and Martin (23) 67 games are important players yes, but most would not expect them to hit their prime until they're 25/26 and at 150 games.

Where will your club be when this eventually happens? Close your eyes.

 

[Dee Train]

I’m feeling bullish that the Dees will rebound this season.

 

[TheUnicorn]

I’m feeling bullish that the Dees will rebound this season.

Plz don’t