Who will North, Essendon and Adelaide replace in the top 8 in 2014

[Kreuuuzeurns]

You have a funny way of saying that, maybe be a bit more specific.

Yeah I admit that was a bit of a stretch, I beleive Simpson would be and McLean would be best 22.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

No it's not. Not one of those players would be regarded as elite in their position. Henderson could be the exception but that's only if you classify utility as a position (I personally do not)

Didn't Jamison concede the least goals of any full back last year? He doesn't provide the rebound some other full backs do, but their primary goal is to shut down their opponent & Jamison is damn good at that.

 

[Pykie]

You're kidding - McLean would slot in but not Simpson! Simpson is Carlton's reigning B&F winner and you're saying he wouldn't even get a game with North, a team we finished above last year? You're joking, surely. Simpson is a great player - super-consistent over the years and just gets the job done week in and week out with no fuss; super courageous and he was #1 for disposals and #2 for marks at Carlton last year!

Simpson would quite easily be in our best 10.

 

[Engimal]

You're kidding - McLean would slot in but not Simpson! Simpson is Carlton's reigning B&F winner and you're saying he wouldn't even get a game with North, a team we finished above last year? You're joking, surely. Simpson is a great player - super-consistent over the years and just gets the job done week in and week out with no fuss; super courageous and he was #1 for disposals and #2 for marks at Carlton last year!

Haha, I actually meant to write Simpson. Bit of a brainfart on my behalf.
To clarify, I don't think McLean would easily get a game at North.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Simpson yes, McLean no.

Simpson would certainly certainly get a game as our primary link up player. Very similar type of player and similar role as Bastinac, except Basti pushes forward more. Simpson is smart, gutsy and a good user. Would happily have him in the 22 but there are only a few spots for that type of player.

 

[Deep Blue]

Didn't Jamison concede the least goals of any full back last year? He doesn't provide the rebound some other full backs do, but their primary goal is to shut down their opponent & Jamison is damn good at that.

Prestigiacomo agrees therefore I'm sure Collingwood supporters would agree! [Jamison is good at stopping and provides more rebound that the average FB]

 

[Deep Blue]

Haha, I actually meant to write Simpson. Bit of a brainfart on my behalf.
To clarify, I don't think McLean would easily get a game at North.

That's better.

 

[forwardflanker]

I never said the rest were elite, it's a very good spine, not an elite spine.



I disagree.



How can Kreuzer been overrated if everyone thinks he's shit, personally I think he's underrated. Just because he's a number 1 pick doesn't mean he'll be the best player in the draft. He's a ruckman every team would happily take, except maybe West Coast.

Perhaps I should have said he is massively overrated by Carlton supporters. As a I said above your comment about him being a very good player is laughable considering there are at least 10 rucks atm who are more effective then he is in his position.

I said we could easily make the 4 when playing our best football, I also said our worst football is terrible and I hope Mick can stop these patches from happening. I don't think we will make the 4 , I think we'll finish 6th or 7th. Improvement to come from Menzel, Yarran, Graham, Docherty, Thomas, Kreuzer (although I think he's doing perfectly fine) + Carrazzo and Murphy playing a full season, along with Gibbs FINALLY moving to the midfield.

Well who couldn't make the top 4 playing their best football. Actually I'd argue that Carlton are probably the one club in the top 10 who can't make the top 4 playing at their best level. It's relatively poor list with very little scope for improvement imo. To top it off, compared to other top 10 teams there is very little star quality on the list (Basically only Judd and even he is well past his best)

 

[forwardflanker]

Prestigiacomo agrees therefore I'm sure Collingwood supporters would agree! [Jamison is good at stopping and provides more rebound that the average FB]

But that doesn't make him elite which is the context in which we were talking (doubt many Pies players called Presto elite). No one said Jameson is a crap player.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

But that doesn't make him elite which is the context in which we were talking (doubt many Pies players called Presto elite). No one said Jameson is a crap player.

You didn't say elite, you said elite in their position

 

[forwardflanker]

You didn't say elite, you said elite in their position

He isn't elite in his position imo. Sorry it wasn't any clearer.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

He isn't elite in his position imo. Sorry it wasn't any clearer.

Can you name your own list of elite full backs?

 

[Big_Luch]

Kreuzer has to be the most overrated ruckman in the competition - I can think of at least 10 specialist rucks in the AFL who are more effective. Saying he is very good is laughable. He is an honest footballer who hasn't lived up to the expectations of where he was drafted and likely won't - he's not big enough to compete with the comps best specialist rucks and not mobile enough or strong enough in the air to do the job as a kpf. Drafting him at no. 1 was a mistake that shouldn't have been made - everybody knows that young rucks are a bit of a lottery and you'd think a professional clubs would be wary of such mistakes made in the past (i.e. Josh Fraser was a very similar player to Kreuzer and was capped from becoming a top AFL ruck for the very same reasons that Kreuzer is now battling with).

I also find your comments that Carlton will go close to finishing top 4 very puzzling. I can't see how an untalented aged list that couldn't finish in the 8 in 2013 is going to match the improvement of clubs who have better managed their list structure. Where is the improvement coming from at the Blues because in terms of younger players they are nowhere near as strong as Geelong, Collingwood, Port, Richmond, Essendon, Norf, Gold Coast - the teams they will be competing with to make the 8 let alone the 4.

How many ruck's have dominated games in their early 20's? Kreuzer needs to show some more this season if he is to keep getting the plaudits he gets currently. He is currently on the verge of the period of time he should be judged upon. The kreuzer drafting is only a 'mistake' in hindsight because we ended up having 3 other quality rucks. Too say he will amount to nothing is going way to early...once again using your Carlton red goggles to judge a young player.

In terms of carltons finishing position i think the only rational conclusion is who knows where spots 4 to 11 or so will finish. To say we flat out cannot improve on 2013 is laughable, especially considering no team bossed us last year whilst learning a proper game plan. We also had our best player well down and had limited to little run in our midfield. We have added 3 'mature' players who can either be best 22 or improve depth.

Your young player argument is carlton 2016 --> problem not carlton 2014.

 

[PP34]

Simpson can also play in the midfield and be very effective there.

It's terrible how underrated he is. Gives his all each week and usually plays very well, does his role and then some.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

He isn't elite in his position imo. Sorry it wasn't any clearer.

He was voted in the top 5 key defenders on the polls board.
Your opinion on anything regarding Carlton is usually pretty sad tbh

 

[forwardflanker]

Can you name your own list of elite full backs?

Here's a list of full backs who I regard as good as or better than Jameson.

McKenzie
Glass
Taylor
Lake
Rory Thompson
Scott Thompson
McPharline

& that's just looking at the "shut down" defenders. The list gets even longer if you start rebounding KPD's like Taylor, Reid and Gibson - who are all better players than Jameson.

 

[forwardflanker]

He was voted in the top 5 key defenders on the polls board.
Your opinion on anything regarding Carlton is usually pretty sad tbh

Actually at the time of posting this he is voted 6th best (get facts right next time please)

Also lol at quoting that thread as if it's some kind of authority when (a) it is a bigfooty poll thread and (b) it was started in June.

I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with saying that Jameson isn't elite for his position. It seems to me that when it comes to Carlton supporters on this board there is always a presumption in favour of their players being considered elite. It should be the other way round, especially when looking at a club that couldn't finish in the top 8

 

[Deep Blue]

Actually at the time of posting this he is voted 6th best (get facts right next time please)

Also lol at quoting that thread as if it's some kind of authority when (a) it is a bigfooty poll thread and (b) it was started in June.

I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with saying that Jameson isn't elite for his position. It seems to me that when it comes to Carlton supporters on this board there is always a presumption in favour of their players being considered elite. It should be the other way round, especially when looking at a club that couldn't finish in the top 8

You're a sourpuss!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Actually at the time of posting this he is voted 6th best (get facts right next time please)

haha so you found the poll & voted for mackenzie to get him past jamison. Well played

Also lol at quoting that thread as if it's some kind of authority when (a) it is a bigfooty poll thread and (b) it was started in June.

I quoted it because it's impartial. Next time I'll just say 'IMO' and proceed to throw a tantrum, if that's what you consider a higher authority.

I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with saying that Jameson isn't elite for his position. It seems to me that when it comes to Carlton supporters on this board there is always a presumption in favour of their players being considered elite. It should be the other way round, especially when looking at a club that couldn't finish in the top 8

What a horribly dumb troll, Carlton finished higher than Collingwood

 

[Liam Boy]

Why would McLean or Simpson have to replace Goldstein, Thompson, Thomas or Petrie?

I mean push out of the top 10 players

 

[BM123]

I mean push out of the top 10 players

Simpson would be great on the wing for North. Don't know who he would push out though and Mclean's a pure footballer who would kill it for North as he excels when he has bigger bodies supporting him. Top 10 for North would be a long bow to draw though.

 

[Monkey King]

i.e. Josh Fraser was a very similar player to Kreuzer ...

It's such a terrible comparison. Beyond being tall and mobile, there's not a lot of comparison in how they play the game.

 

[Monkey King]

No it's not. Not one of those players would be regarded as elite in their position. Henderson could be the exception but that's only if you classify utility as a position (I personally do not)

Yeah nah. Jamison is an elite KPD often mentioned among the top 5 in the league.

 

[santa claws]

Darrou Elton Stephenson Griffiths McBean, That's a very good spine, providing they all stand up...and a few injurys of course.

In reality however, you're more likely to see them in the 2s.

Shame how reality gets in the way sometimes.

hmm a like for like match up

jamison v rance. give me jamison thanks.
henderson v chaplin give me henderson. yes i think henderson should play in defense alas they need him forward. if you throw him forward hes better than vickery by a country mile.
waite - well hes better than any other tall forward we have outside of jack.
kruezer - well hampson has his role for us give me kruezer anyday. id take kruezer over vickery as well.
watson well hes a kid i think who has deficiencies. but hes just 21 and if at richmond head in the sand supporters like you would be lauding him.

what i dont get is its the off season why the disrespect why the open display of ignorance and dislike. surely at the least in the offseason we can be just abit analytical and fair minded and not let the dislike of a team cloud the judgment.

 

[dickballsack]

I also think they are an injury away from a non finals season. If Cloke went down they would be stuffed.

Brown ain't much down back and Keefe is average at best (at this stage anyway). That leaves much on the shoulders of Reid.

there are plenty of reasons they might not make the finals but injuries would be a long shot as a reason considering last year they had the most amount of injuries of any club (games missed from top 22) and had to use the 3rd most amount of players, behind GWS & GC.