Who will North, Essendon and Adelaide replace in the top 8 in 2014

[santa claws]

That's the thing mate, I don't think your unbiased. I think a lot of your points are valid, but sometimes they go the other way too hard. = overly critical/harsh.

so tell me what did i get wrong in my comparisons.
tell me outside of riewoldt what kpf do we have that is better than waite.
michael jamison imo is one of the better one v one kpds in the entire comp. we dont have a better tall defender.
ffs who is a better ruck /for than kruezer on our list. vickery you have to be kidding.hampson lol.
henderson has not only performed down back but shown he can play chf and play the role well. he doesnt fall over is always accountable and is reliable in a one v one contest hence i prefer him to rance.
watson is a 21 yr old who i have some doubts about but refuse to right him off. i dont believe ive ever written a rfc tall of at the same stage. ffs i thought post should have been given one more yr.
no not overly critical or harsh just honest and refuse to let club allegiance get in the way of appraisal.
you do know this started when a disrespectful richmond poster compared carltons talls to the likes of astbury griffiths mcbean etc. i wonder which poster should be getting pulled up for, how do you say it for being to hard overly critical.

 

[Royce Hafey]

so tell me what did i get wrong in my comparisons.
tell me outside of riewoldt what kpf do we have that is better than waite.
michael jamison imo is one of the better one v one kpds in the entire comp. we dont have a better tall defender.
ffs who is a better ruck /for than kruezer on our list. vickery you have to be kidding.hampson lol.
henderson has not only performed down back but shown he can play chf and play the role well. he doesnt fall over is always accountable and is reliable in a one v one contest hence i prefer him to rance.
watson is a 21 yr old who i have some doubts about but refuse to right him off. i dont believe ive ever written a rfc tall of at the same stage. ffs i thought post should have been given one more yr.
no not overly critical or harsh just honest and refuse to let club allegiance get in the way of appraisal.
you do know this started when a disrespectful richmond poster compared carltons talls to the likes of astbury griffiths mcbean etc. i wonder which poster should be getting pulled up for, how do you say it for being to hard overly critical.

The poster was joking - deliberately picking out our weakest talls to have go at a Carlton poster. You do know that our talls include a bloke called Riewoldt and another called Maric, don't you? Amazing how our defence conceded the third lowest score last year with no decent defenders. How we won 15 games without a single decent KPP is another mystery that can only be explained by the alignment of the planets.

 

[santa claws]

The poster was joking - deliberately picking out our weakest talls to have go at a Carlton poster. You do know that our talls include a bloke called Riewoldt and another called Maric, don't you? Amazing how our defence conceded the third lowest score last year with no decent defenders. How we won 15 games without a single decent KPP is another mystery that can only be explained by the alignment of the planets.

joking my arse. was clearly blinkered and facetous and its only the off season.
i reckon i asked some pretty valid questions in my post you quoted do you want to have a go at answering them or are you like most precious richmond posters and choose to ignore what you dont like. can i suggest you go back to the original quote and read carefully.
i dont believe ive said any carlton tall forward is better than jack but they have the next best two. i dont think ivan even came into it. he matches up against warnock and the last time i looked warnock towelled him up in the ruck but ivan offers more when the ball hits the ground and around the ground.

how is our group of regular tall so much better than carltons
rance, chaplin, grimes riewoldt,vickery, maric and now hampson.
jamison henderson watson walker, waite, rowe, kruezer and warnock
for all supporters who has the better
fb - jamison v rance. jamison is easily the best one v one kpd on either list
chb - watson v chaplin. geez a 29yo v a junior 21yo.
chf - vickery v henderson well give me hendeson id prefer him at chb but it shows his versatility
ff - riewoldt v waite give me jack every time but waite is clearly the second best kpf on both clubs lists.
ruck/for - kruezer v hampson. lol kruezer please.
third tall - walker v grimes. andrew walker please
as i said im not being harsh or vindictive just honest and unbiased.
richmond and carlton supporters aside id be interested to hear what neutral posters think.

 

[Tiger71]

joking my arse. was clearly blinkered and facetous and its only the off season.
i reckon i asked some pretty valid questions in my post you quoted do you want to have a go at answering them or are you like most precious richmond posters and choose to ignore what you dont like. can i suggest you go back to the original quote and read carefully.
i dont believe ive said any carlton tall forward is better than jack but they have the next best two. i dont think ivan even came into it. he matches up against warnock and the last time i looked warnock towelled him up in the ruck but ivan offers more when the ball hits the ground and around the ground.

how is our group of regular tall so much better than carltons
rance, chaplin, grimes riewoldt,vickery, maric and now hampson.
jamison henderson watson walker, waite, rowe, kruezer and warnock
for all supporters who has the better
fb - jamison v rance. jamison is easily the best one v one kpd on either list
chb - watson v chaplin. geez a 29yo v a junior 21yo.
chf - vickery v henderson well give me hendeson id prefer him at chb but it shows his versatility
ff - riewoldt v waite give me jack every time but waite is clearly the second best kpf on both clubs lists.
ruck/for - kruezer v hampson. lol kruezer please.
third tall - walker v grimes. andrew walker please
as i said im not being harsh or vindictive just honest and unbiased.
richmond and carlton supporters aside id be interested to hear what neutral posters think.

Ok i'll bite.

fb - jamison v rance. jamison is easily the best one v one kpd on either list- Jamison is a solid FB and you are right that he has the wood over Jack for some reason but seriously ? Jamision and Rance are two diffrent types of defenders. Jamision does not create run out of the back line like Rance. Jamison does not intercept mark like Rance. Jamison is a negative defender, he stops the player he is on regardless if he himself only gets 4 disposals. Rance is a attacking FB, he just does not sit on one person, he spreads, he attacks the ball and he runs out of the defensive 50.

chb - watson v chaplin. geez a 29yo v a junior 21yo- WOW, Chaplin is worth less due to his age ? lol. Chaplin intercept marking last year was elite. Do you even check the stats before you sprout this tripe ?

Bottom line our defense performed better then Carltons last year. Period. Any neutral would tell you that, our defense was rated the third best in the league last year, what was Carltons ?

chf - vickery v henderson well give me hendeson id prefer him at chb but it shows his versatility- Henderson is a great player but you are comparing a defender/forward to a ruck/forward. You also ignore that Hendo is older, has had more time in the system then Vickery. You also ignore Henderson had a brake out season in 2013 playing 24 games for 26 goals compared to Vickery who only played 21 games for 27 goals, ill take Vickery thanks.

ff - riewoldt v waite give me jack every time but waite is clearly the second best kpf on both clubs lists. - Agree, ill take Jack to thanks, as to waite being the second best kpf on both lists lol again your basing all this on your opinion, look at the numbers then come back.

ruck/for - kruezer v hampson. lol kruezer please.- How about comparing ruck for ruck, so Maric vs Kruezer ? Keep in mind, I actually rate Kruezer, he once his body is right will i believe become one of the most dominate big rucks in the game BUT for as it stands now, I would take Maric's last 3 seasons over him.

third tall - walker v grimes. andrew walker please- Walker plays third tall ? Grimes due to his body not holding up, I would take Walker too.

as i said im not being harsh or vindictive just honest and unbiased- I just think you might have Richmonities. You have gone through so many false dawns you are conditioned to be a lot more pessimistic on our club over others. I dont blame you for that, I am 41 and most of my adult life I have been served up shit BUT I do also reconise where we are at and what improvement we have made.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Ratts put too much on Judd - expected him to do the lot with players hanging off him. Was so frustrating watching Gibbs being wasted down back. Gibbs has to be put in a position that makes him work and play to his strengths - he sets players up beautifully and the more he can do that from the midfield the better. Miss Ratts and think he was terribly under-rated as a coach and always under the pump as a favourite son to deliver for the Carlton hierarchy - one thing that would have helped his cause was making better use of an asset like Gibbs.

Agree with comments on Gibbs being wasted down back. When Gibbs is in full flight he is like Sam Mitchell. One of the most evasive players in the comp - never brought to ground with amazing vision and disposal.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Can you name your own list of elite full backs?

Glass, Taylor, Lake, Richards.

 

[Donakebab]

Glass, Taylor, Lake, Richards.

Glass is no longer elite nor is he West Coast's full back.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Glass is no longer elite nor is he West Coast's full back.

Replace Glass with McKenzie in my list.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Tiger71 I think you'd be in the extreme minority if you'd take Vickery over Hendo. Other than that your choices are very unbiased. I'd currently take a 29 year old Chaplin over a 21 year old Watson because only one is proven. Troy could give you 5 more years of good defending where as Matthew could be delisted by the end of they year. I still have high hopes for Watto though

 

[Tiger71]

Tiger71 I think you'd be in the extreme minority if you'd take Vickery over Hendo. Other than that your choices are very unbiased. I'd currently take a 29 year old Chaplin over a 21 year old Watson because only one is proven. Troy could give you 5 more years of good defending where as Matthew could be delisted by the end of they year. I still have high hopes for Watto though

Reason I guess why I would choose Vickery over Hendo simply is that for Vickerys age, he is actually performing really well. I compare his 11 season to Hendos this year and the effect on the team is equal which is why I chose Vickery, he has a larger upside. In saying that though, its only my opinon. I see vickery play every week. I only get to see Hendo play about 5 games a year.

At the end of the day, I like them both lol

IMO Watson will be a player.

 

[BM123]

Ok i'll bite.

fb - jamison v rance. jamison is easily the best one v one kpd on either list- Jamison is a solid FB and you are right that he has the wood over Jack for some reason but seriously ? Jamision and Rance are two diffrent types of defenders. Jamision does not create run out of the back line like Rance. Jamison does not intercept mark like Rance. Jamison is a negative defender, he stops the player he is on regardless if he himself only gets 4 disposals. Rance is a attacking FB, he just does not sit on one person, he spreads, he attacks the ball and he runs out of the defensive 50.

chb - watson v chaplin. geez a 29yo v a junior 21yo- WOW, Chaplin is worth less due to his age ? lol. Chaplin intercept marking last year was elite. Do you even check the stats before you sprout this tripe ?

Bottom line our defense performed better then Carltons last year. Period. Any neutral would tell you that, our defense was rated the third best in the league last year, what was Carltons ?

chf - vickery v henderson well give me hendeson id prefer him at chb but it shows his versatility- Henderson is a great player but you are comparing a defender/forward to a ruck/forward. You also ignore that Hendo is older, has had more time in the system then Vickery. You also ignore Henderson had a brake out season in 2013 playing 24 games for 26 goals compared to Vickery who only played 21 games for 27 goals, ill take Vickery thanks.

ff - riewoldt v waite give me jack every time but waite is clearly the second best kpf on both clubs lists. - Agree, ill take Jack to thanks, as to waite being the second best kpf on both lists lol again your basing all this on your opinion, look at the numbers then come back.

ruck/for - kruezer v hampson. lol kruezer please.- How about comparing ruck for ruck, so Maric vs Kruezer ? Keep in mind, I actually rate Kruezer, he once his body is right will i believe become one of the most dominate big rucks in the game BUT for as it stands now, I would take Maric's last 3 seasons over him.

third tall - walker v grimes. andrew walker please- Walker plays third tall ? Grimes due to his body not holding up, I would take Walker too.

as i said im not being harsh or vindictive just honest and unbiased- I just think you might have Richmonities. You have gone through so many false dawns you are conditioned to be a lot more pessimistic on our club over others. I dont blame you for that, I am 41 and most of my adult life I have been served up shit BUT I do also reconise where we are at and what improvement we have made.

Umm Henderson played defense for most of the year. Henderson got his goals in far less time up forward then Vickery.

 

[the big lebowski]

Hendersen over Vickery quite comfortably IMO.

 

[telsor]

chf - vickery v henderson well give me hendeson id prefer him at chb but it shows his versatility- Henderson is a great player but you are comparing a defender/forward to a ruck/forward. You also ignore that Hendo is older, has had more time in the system then Vickery. You also ignore Henderson had a brake out season in 2013 playing 24 games for 26 goals compared to Vickery who only played 21 games for 27 goals, ill take Vickery thanks.

ff - riewoldt v waite give me jack every time but waite is clearly the second best kpf on both clubs lists. - Agree, ill take Jack to thanks, as to waite being the second best kpf on both lists lol again your basing all this on your opinion, look at the numbers then come back.

I'd rate the KPFs as...
Reiwoldt, Henderson, Vickery, Waite.

The last 2 are actually pretty close statistically, and Vickery plays more (and being younger, has more upside).

If Waite could get on the park it might be different, but when looking at the value as a player, turning up is important, so I think it's fair to 'mrk down' players who are made of glass.

Considering Jack will be moved to CHF this year by all reports, that leaves

CHF: Reiwoldt > Henderson
CHF: Vickery > Waite.

ruck/for - kruezer v hampson. lol kruezer please.- How about comparing ruck for ruck, so Maric vs Kruezer ? Keep in mind, I actually rate Kruezer, he once his body is right will i believe become one of the most dominate big rucks in the game BUT for as it stands now, I would take Maric's last 3 seasons over him.

You need to look at the pairs here Warnock/Kreuzer Vs Maric/Hampson...I'd still give it to Carlton, but the Richmond pair would seem more versatile with Warnock being a bit of a liability around the ground.

third tall - walker v grimes. andrew walker please- Walker plays third tall ? Grimes due to his body not holding up, I would take Walker too.

Agree. As I said above, turning up is a big deal.

as i said im not being harsh or vindictive just honest and unbiased- I just think you might have Richmonities. You have gone through so many false dawns you are conditioned to be a lot more pessimistic on our club over others. I dont blame you for that, I am 41 and most of my adult life I have been served up shit BUT I do also reconise where we are at and what improvement we have made.

If Santa is so honest and unbiased, how come every post he makes is against Richmond?

He's every Richmond haters favorite 'richmond supporter' for a reason, but it's reached the point where even they wont use his comments to support their arguments because they know they'll be laughed at.

 

[eth-dog]

I'd take Maric/Hampson ahead of Warnock/Kruezer.

Tap work: Warnock>Maric>Hampson>Kruezer
Forward: Hampson>Maric>Kruezer>Warnock
Around the ground: Kruezer>Maric>Hampson>Warnock

As a 4/3/2/1 ranking system Tigers have 17, Carlton 13.

 

[forwardflanker]

I'd take Maric/Hampson ahead of Warnock/Kruezer.

Tap work: Warnock>Maric>Hampson>Kruezer
Forward: Hampson>Maric>Kruezer>Warnock
Around the ground: Kruezer>Maric>Hampson>Warnock

As a 4/3/2/1 ranking system Tigers have 17, Carlton 13.

I think it's more likely it will be Maric/ Vickery with Hampson as capable back up.

Either way though I think the combination of Maric and Vickery/Hampson is a better combo than Kreuzer and Warnock. Maric demands more time in the ruck and Hampson and especially Vickery are forward first, ruck second. On the other hand I think Warnock's lack of ability anywhere other than ruck put Carlton in an awkward position considering Kreuzer's preferred position is ruck and is just an average forward.

So in terms of quality I think the two sides are pretty close but I think Richmond have an edge on terms of the chemistry of their players.

 

[telsor]

I think it's more likely it will be Maric/ Vickery with Hampson as capable back up.

Either way though I think the combination of Maric and Vickery/Hampson is a better combo than Kreuzer and Warnock. Maric demands more time in the ruck and Hampson and especially Vickery are forward first, ruck second. On the other hand I think Warnock's lack of ability anywhere other than ruck put Carlton in an awkward position considering Kreuzer's preferred position is ruck and is just an average forward.

So in terms of quality I think the two sides are pretty close but I think Richmond have an edge on terms of the chemistry of their players.

Nup.

Seems the plan is for Vickery as full time FF with Jack moving out to CHF and Maric/Hampson rotating as ruck/3rd forward.

Not sure how it'll go, but Vickery does seem to be a better forward than he is a ruckman...So far at least. Worst case it gives us another option.

 

[Tiger71]

Umm Henderson played defense for most of the year. Henderson got his goals in far less time up forward then Vickery.

Oh I agree with you at this stage of there carrier. Santa compared them both as CHF and in that role I would go Vickery. Reason simply is that Vickery has had better forward years then Hendo. Hendo is 2-3 years older then Vickery, in 2 years time it would be fun to compare them both again.

 

[BM123]

I'd take Maric/Hampson ahead of Warnock/Kruezer.

Tap work: Warnock>Maric>Hampson>Kruezer
Forward: Hampson>Maric>Kruezer>Warnock
Around the ground: Kruezer>Maric>Hampson>Warnock

As a 4/3/2/1 ranking system Tigers have 17, Carlton 13.

Tap work: Warnock>Maric>Kreuzer>Hampson
Forward: Maric>Kreuzer>Hampson>Warnock
Around the ground: Kruezer>Maric>Hampson>Warnock

As someone who has watched all Hampson, Warnock and Kreuzer closely for years.

I think Warnock's tap work and Kreuzer bullocking work at the clearance is going to be a problem for Richmond in a actual match though.

 

[Big Fresh]

Oh I agree with you at this stage of there carrier. Santa compared them both as CHF and in that role I would go Vickery. Reason simply is that Vickery has had better forward years then Hendo. Hendo is 2-3 years older then Vickery, in 2 years time it would be fun to compare them both again.

Henderson's only 6 months older than Vickery.

 

[BM123]

Oh I agree with you at this stage of there carrier. Santa compared them both as CHF and in that role I would go Vickery. Reason simply is that Vickery has had better forward years then Hendo. Hendo is 2-3 years older then Vickery, in 2 years time it would be fun to compare them both again.

Fair enough.

 

[Tiger71]

Tap work: Warnock>Maric>Kreuzer>Hampson
Forward: Maric>Kreuzer>Hampson>Warnock
Around the ground: Kruezer>Maric>Hampson>Warnock

As someone who has watched all Hampson, Warnock and Kreuzer closely for years.

I think Warnock's tap work and Kreuzer bullocking work at the clearance is going to be a problem for Richmond in a actual match though.

Think the opposite IMO.

Maric bullocking/bang and crash is superior to Kreuzer just his weakness is tap's to advantage against the taller ruckmen who can jump.

Hampson was rated 1st in the league for taps to advantage on time spent on the ground and can leap and IMO matches well against Warnock. in our EF Warnock r*ped Maric in taps to advantage, thats one reason we have looked to get a jumping athletic ruck who can jump but is also mature enough that he can play now with our 20-23 year old mids.

 

[forwardflanker]

Nup.

Seems the plan is for Vickery as full time FF with Jack moving out to CHF and Maric/Hampson rotating as ruck/3rd forward.

Not sure how it'll go, but Vickery does seem to be a better forward than he is a ruckman...So far at least. Worst case it gives us another option.

I doubt it will last very long, Vickery and Hampson in the forwardline is going to give you nothing in the way of forward pressure. Also chances are one of three gets injured anyway.

Not an expert on Richmond but I would have thought that it would be ideal that Maric a greater than average ruckload anyway and Vickery just acts as a chop out every now and then. Kind of in the same way that Collingwood used Lee Brown with Jolly.

 

[Tiger71]

Henderson's only 6 months older than Vickery.

yeah my bad! Hendo has had one more year in the system then Tyrone. matter stands though. As a forward i would still choose Tyrone. Again just my opinion.

 

[Tiger71]

I doubt it will last very long, Vickery and Hampson in the forwardline is going to give you nothing in the way of forward pressure. Also chances are one of three gets injured anyway.

Not an expert on Richmond but I would have thought that it would be ideal that Maric a greater than average ruckload anyway and Vickery just acts as a chop out every now and then. Kind of in the same way that Collingwood used Lee Brown with Jolly.

Marics groins are not shot but will be if we dont manage his time in the ruck. Maric and Hampson will share ruck dutys, pretty well 50-50. When Marics not rucking he will spend his time at FF. When Hendo is not rucking he will spend his time either deep forward to create a miss match or filling the whole at the back. Hopefully to use his strength in clunking the long kicks coming into the opps forward line.

 

[BM123]

Think the opposite IMO.

Maric bullocking/bang and crash is superior to Kreuzer just his weakness is tap's to advantage against the taller ruckmen who can jump.

Hampson was rated 1st in the league for taps to advantage on time spent on the ground and can leap and IMO matches well against Warnock. in our EF Warnock r*ped Maric in taps to advantage, thats one reason we have looked to get a jumping athletic ruck who can jump but is also mature enough that he can play now with our 20-23 year old mids.

Hampson played as a forward for most of his games though last year since Warnock is a far better tap ruck men who tends to win a few clearances by himself. There is a reason that Hampson was third in line despite Warnock's weaknesses.