Analysis Why are we s**t?

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Why are we shit.
Coach wants blue collar side and game but does not have a blue collar list. Has a list full of white collar show ponies who would rather hire someone to do the hard work.
 
The most blue collar thing about this team in recent times is Patrick Ambrose didn't have Instagram and drove a 1991 Toyota pickup truck.
 

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Having thought about it a bit, I think part of the problem might be one of perception.

Fair enough to be in a rebuild phase, all clubs go through them. But don't come out and say we expect to play finals and be a genuine contender in 12 month's time. Be honest with the fans and say that it's a rebuild and there's going to be some hard days ahead as the list grows and develops. If there's been a hard reset since Rutten took over, say so, explain that progress from pre-2020 will not be linear and that things might get worse before they get better.

Then you don't get fans disillusioned because everyone is on the same page.
 
The Recruiting and List Management has a big part in it.

Trading 2 Firsts for Dylan Shiel and giving him a 7 year contract.
Refusing to let Daniher walk in 2019 which would have netted us two top 10 picks.
Refusing to let Orazio walk in 2019 which we would have gotten pick 18(Mitch Georgiades)
Trading two second rounders for an injury prone Caldwell who is the same type of mid that Parish, Merrett and Shiel are.

Trading for Devon Smith when they knew he had a degenerative Knee.

Butchering top draft picks on flankers. 1 on McGrath, 6 on Francis. Butchering as well second rounders 29(Morgan), 31(Begley), 38(Mosquito) and 42(Mutch)
 
iPhone said:
I think one of our (us as supporters I mean) largest problems at the moment is a fundamental lack of understanding of list management and construction.

I think we get hung up on things like the amount of years it's been since we won a final and thinking that this somehow defines where we are at in this very moment ... I mean honestly, if we had beaten North in 2014 and then been pumped by Geelong the following week would that make such a difference in where we find ourselves now? What would change? Maybe a twitter account wouldn't exist? ... seriously.

We will improve, but it's going to take time. We need to focus on getting the following players to about 50-100 games of experience
Draper (27 games)
Perkins 26
Cox 24
Caldwell 20
Jones 16
Durham 12
Martin 5
Hobbs 2
Reid 1
Bryan 1

That core group will be led by players in the 100-150 games bracket

Parish 122
Merrett 168
McGrath 99
Wright 93
Ridley 54

I think it's going to take at least two more seasons to get that experience into the younger group and in the mean time we need to be focusing on developing our leaders and going back into the draft where we can to get more top end talent. If we do this, then I believe we can build a list akin to Melbourne or the Dogs have now and we will become a team that's competitive. Those lists weren't put together overnight and neither will ours.

Now I can appreciate that no one wants to hear that it's going to take several years before we are even competing with the top teams .. . but I assure you it's not going to just happen. The idea that we are just one player (one big bodied mid for example) away from being a top four side is simply laughable.

Strap in mf's

Gong Yoo Netflix GIF by Mashable
Click to expand...
A pretty realistic analysis of where we sit. At least 3 years before wr can expect to not just make the 8 but actually impact in a final. But even that assumes the young players showing promise are properly educated and that we get the top 5 draft picks we can expect the next 2 years right Both bog assumptions. .
 
carloss said:
Roco having a stab at it.

Click to expand...

Well Rohan has done a good job of collecting the questions we should be and are asking. But we ordinary supporters can be expected to produce the solutions. For that we know we need to employ people with a proven record of addressing these issues at clubs in similar dire circumstances. And give them the power to address problems all the way up to board level. After all , decisions on senior executive and coach levels are as vital as drafting , te
am selection and day to day coaching .
 
ant555 said:
Why are we shit.
Coach wants blue collar side and game but does not have a blue collar list. Has a list full of white collar show ponies who would rather hire someone to do the hard work.
Click to expand...
None of the list would last a day in my office, they aren't white collar at all.
 
The Airing of Grievances said:
Well Rohan has done a good job of collecting the questions we should be and are asking. But we ordinary supporters can be expected to produce the solutions. For that we know we need to employ people with a proven record of addressing these issues at clubs in similar dire circumstances. And give them the power to address problems all the way up to board level. After all , decisions on senior executive and coach levels are as vital as drafting , te
am selection and day to day coaching .
Click to expand...

I agree the issue is cultural more than personnel. We know the list can produce better results because saw it last season. Part of the problem is that we have never been bad enough to feel the need to address systemic issues. Think about it? When was the last bad year we had without an excuse? The drug thing was an excuse. Covid was an excuse. So ignore any bad season in those years for a moment. When was the last bad year? You have to go back sixteen years ago to 2006.

Since then, we have always been middle of the road, and the mindset has always been, "well, we were okay last season, we have the building blocks. Just need to see some natural development and we will rise up the ladder"..... that's the bullshit mindset. I know that's the way some people were feeling 8 weeks ago, and it's how we have felt most years after a normal Essendon 8th-10th season the year before.

We need a bad year. Like a REALLY bad year. Like a 2006 bad year. We need a bad year almost like no club has needed a bad year ever before.

Richmond is a good example. The Tigers were basically like us. Middle-of-the road, couldn't win a final, mired in mediocrity. The lost elimination finals in 2013-14-15, and I'm sure their bullshit mindset at the time was much the same as ours. "We are okay we're in the finals, just need a bit of natural development and we will rise up the ladder"

Then it all fell apart for them in 2016. They slumped to 13th and finished that season with a 20 goal loss to the Sydney Swans. They had finally had a bad year - a really bad year, and it took that bad year to do the necessary soul searching to mire out the cultural mediocrity that had infested them and they won the premiership the next year.

I'm not saying we will do that, obviously, but by God we need to be bad this year. Not for draft picks, or anything like that. I don't believe in that. But we need a bad year to reset everyone's mindset. What's the point finishing 8th again?
 

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Dan26 said:
I agree the issue is cultural more than personnel. We know the list can produce better results because saw it last season. Part of the problem is that we have never been bad enough to feel the need to address systemic issues. Think about it? When was the last bad year we had without an excuse? The drug thing was an excuse. Covid was an excuse. So ignore any bad season in those years for a moment. When was the last bad year? You have to go back sixteen years ago to 2006.

Since then, we have always been middle of the road, and the mindset has always been, "well, we were okay last season, we have the building blocks. Just need to see some natural development and we will rise up the ladder"..... that's the bullshit mindset. I know that's the way some people were feeling 8 weeks ago, and it's how we have felt most years after a normal Essendon 8th-10th season the year before.

We need a bad year. Like a REALLY bad year. Like a 2006 bad year. We need a bad year almost like no club has needed a bad year ever before.

Richmond is a good example. The Tigers were basically like us. Middle-of-the road, couldn't win a final, mired in mediocrity. The lost elimination finals in 2013-14-15, and I'm sure their bullshit mindset at the time was much the same as ours. "We are okay we're in the finals, just need a bit of natural development and we will rise up the ladder"

Then it all fell apart for them in 2016. They slumped to 13th and finished that season with a 20 goal loss to the Sydney Swans. They had finally had a bad year - a really bad year, and it took that bad year to do the necessary soul searching to mire out the cultural mediocrity that had infested them and they won the premiership the next year.

I'm not saying we will do that, obviously, but by God we need to be bad this year. Not for draft picks, or anything like that. I don't believe in that. But we need a bad year to reset everyone's mindset. What's the point finishing 8th again?
Click to expand...
Good shout

But the narrative would be “kids/injuries” so it will be better next year
 
fairbump_playon said:
Good shout

But the narrative would be “kids/injuries” so it will be better next year
Click to expand...

And in many ways, when you finish 8th, that's fair enough. That the problem with finishing in the middle. You are never bad enough to reset everything - you just try to make little tweaks and alterations thinking natural improvement and a bit of luck will make the difference.

As I said in my previous post, I don't think we have had a really bad year (without covid or the drug thing as excuses) for nearly two decades, and we need one.

I think a bad year - an AWFUL year - is the best thing for us. And in the clubs 150th celebration, no less. We need a year we can't hide from. A humiliation.

I hope we can look back on this year as the real turning point. There is certainly a precedent for this at other clubs. I mentioned Richmond, but Melbourne also. They finished 17th in 2019, the year after playing in a Preliminary Final. Do you think they would have won the flag in 2021 had it not been for 2019? I doubt they would have.

And I'm all but certain Richmond would not have won the 2017 premiership, had they not had the year they experienced in 2016.
 
I’m with RoCo….

We unveiled a 5 year plan in 2015 and without having it at hand, I think we failed to meet any of the significant on-field performance metrics that were committed to.

The club acknowledges that we exist to win premierships, that’s how we measure success. And yet our CEO, despite failing to deliver on the plan he owned, continues to preside unchallenged over the farce that is EFC….he must be closing in on 10 years now.

Before Rutten, before Dodo and before the players…..this is where I would start.

The fish always rots from the head.
 
Dan26 said:
I agree the issue is cultural more than personnel. We know the list can produce better results because saw it last season. Part of the problem is that we have never been bad enough to feel the need to address systemic issues. Think about it? When was the last bad year we had without an excuse? The drug thing was an excuse. Covid was an excuse. So ignore any bad season in those years for a moment. When was the last bad year? You have to go back sixteen years ago to 2006.

Since then, we have always been middle of the road, and the mindset has always been, "well, we were okay last season, we have the building blocks. Just need to see some natural development and we will rise up the ladder"..... that's the bullshit mindset. I know that's the way some people were feeling 8 weeks ago, and it's how we have felt most years after a normal Essendon 8th-10th season the year before.

We need a bad year. Like a REALLY bad year. Like a 2006 bad year. We need a bad year almost like no club has needed a bad year ever before.

Richmond is a good example. The Tigers were basically like us. Middle-of-the road, couldn't win a final, mired in mediocrity. The lost elimination finals in 2013-14-15, and I'm sure their bullshit mindset at the time was much the same as ours. "We are okay we're in the finals, just need a bit of natural development and we will rise up the ladder"

Then it all fell apart for them in 2016. They slumped to 13th and finished that season with a 20 goal loss to the Sydney Swans. They had finally had a bad year - a really bad year, and it took that bad year to do the necessary soul searching to mire out the cultural mediocrity that had infested them and they won the premiership the next year.

I'm not saying we will do that, obviously, but by God we need to be bad this year. Not for draft picks, or anything like that. I don't believe in that. But we need a bad year to reset everyone's mindset. What's the point finishing 8th again?
Click to expand...
Unfair on 2006, a transition year, the new skipper takes a game to absolute pieces in round 1 heralding a new dawn. We gave an even account in Rd 2 against the might of the Brisbane Lions super team at their Gabba fortress, then our fearless leader does one of the worst hamstring injuries the game has ever seen. Derailed from that point on.
 
Vander18 said:
I’m with RoCo….

We unveiled a 5 year plan in 2015 and without having it at hand, I think we failed to meet any of the significant on-field performance metrics that were committed to.

The club acknowledges that we exist to win premierships, that’s how we measure success. And yet our CEO, despite failing to deliver on the plan he owned, continues to preside unchallenged over the farce that is EFC….he must be closing in on 10 years now.

Before Rutten, before Dodo and before the players…..this is where I would start.

The fish always rots from the head.
Click to expand...

Personally think the CEO would just be a bit of a head on a stick figure for people. I honestly doubt anything much he does or him being sacked would have much of an impact on the footy side of the things. They run the commercial side of the business but the structures at AFL clubs are very different to elsewhere. The club board has footy directors, the coach himself is selected and hired by the board.

Not saying XC is some wonder operator but I don’t think he really has much to do with any problems we might have on the field or the footy dept.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Personally think the CEO would just be a bit of a head on a stick figure for people. I honestly doubt anything much he does or him being sacked would have much of an impact on the footy side of the things. They run the commercial side of the business but the structures at AFL clubs are very different to elsewhere. The club board has footy directors, the coach himself is selected and hired by the board.

Not saying XC is some wonder operator but I don’t think he really has much to do with any problems we might have on the field or the footy dept.
Click to expand...
I do not accept that the club CEO has no accountability for either on-field
performance or the culture of the club.

Remember when he walked back his mild criticism of the players on Twitter after they complained? Look at us now and tell me that doesn’t look like a very relevant pointer as to why we are shit.
 
Vander18 said:
I do not accept that the club CEO has no accountability for either on-field
performance or the culture of the club.

Remember when he walked back his mild criticism of the players on Twitter after they complained? Look at us now and tell me that doesn’t look like a very relevant pointer as to why we are shit.
Click to expand...

I really doubt moving him on would change anything about our football strategy or trajectory.

Wellman, Madden, Mahoney, Dodoro and Rutten are the senior footy people. They set the strategy.
 
yodellinhank said:
Unfair on 2006, a transition year, the new skipper takes a game to absolute pieces in round 1 heralding a new dawn. We gave an even account in Rd 2 against the might of the Brisbane Lions super team at their Gabba fortress, then our fearless leader does one of the worst hamstring injuries the game has ever seen. Derailed from that point on.
Click to expand...

Exactly our problem - more excuses. You don't won 3 games in a season (regardless of a champion player going down) unless there are significant problems that need to be addressed. And we didn't address them. We just thought that with Lloyd back in '07 we will be okay.

I remember we had all sorts of injuries in 1997 - probably the worst year for injuries we have ever had. And we finished 14th.

Sheedy could have used injures as an excuse in 1997 but he didn't. I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember Sheedy's exactly quote from 25 years ago, but he basically said, "We finished 14th.You don't finish 14th unless there are significant issues to address, irrespective of injuries. We need to figure out why we finished 14th."..... he said something along those lines. I remember it.

Two years later we were minor-premiers.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
I really doubt moving him on would change anything about our football strategy or trajectory.

Wellman, Madden, Mahoney, Dodoro and Rutten are the senior footy people. They set the strategy.
Click to expand...
Mate, football strategy is not our issue and I’m not suggesting he is responsible for football strategy.

I would suggest that leadership and culture are at the heart of why we have been bad for rising 20 years now.

This idea that the CEO is irrelevant to on-field outcomes….you think Benny Gale had nothing to do with Richmond’s success? Organisation’s rise and fall due to leadership.
 
Dan26 said:
Exactly our problem - more excuses.
Click to expand...
My sense of humour can be pretty warped/dry sometimes. Also just wanted to spend a minute thinking about that game against Sydney.

Sheedy could have used injures as an excuse in 1997 but he didn't. I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember Sheedy's exactly quote from 25 years ago, but he basically said, "We finished 14th.You don't finish 14th unless there are significant issues to address, irrespective of injuries. We need to figure out why we finished 14th."..... he said something along those lines. I remember it.

Two years later we were minor-premiers.
Click to expand...
The master.
 

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