Analysis Why are we s**t?

[bomberlegend2007]

Not Barrassi tough. Not quite Sheedy 1981 tough.
More like Damian Hardwick, Luke Beverage, or Michael Voss.

Rutten was a tough player in Adelaide. Not quite sure what you’re getting at?

 

[wba1977]

Five of the Top 10 in the BnF last year were not out there yesterday.

One of our top five goal scorers last year was out there yesterday.

We were an 11-11 side last year.

I am more amazed that people think we should be more competitive rather than where we sit on the ladder.

 

[Foxx]

Rutten was a tough player in Adelaide. Not quite sure what you’re getting at?

As a player yes. Same as Worsefold was. But I haven't seen either of those guys show that level in their coaching.
Rutton seems to want to please everyone.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

As a player yes. Same as Worsefold was. But I haven't seen either of those guys show that level in their coaching.
Rutton seems to want to please everyone.

You mean the same Rutten that didn’t give Bellchambers a final game which pissed off some players and a lot of fans on this forum? You mean the same one that dropped Hooker to play Jones because that was the way forward?

 

[Jobe Watson]

Five of the Top 10 in the BnF last year were not out there yesterday.

One of our top five goal scorers last year was out there yesterday.

We were an 11-11 side last year.

I am more amazed that people think we should be more competitive rather than where we sit on the ladder.

Maybe some of us are getting sick of blaming injuries for why we're substandard every year. It's not that we're losing, it's how we're playing.

Injuries don't explain senior players jogging back on defence, our overall lack of structure and gameplan, and our awful skills. We just suck.

 

[The Dustbin]

 

[ant555]

For everything heppell does good he does something also quite bad.

he is Slow and has poor disposal by foot and hand. I don't question his work ethic. But he is a liability on the backline.

That is not really correct. He has been making a few errors but he did plenty right in the first half yesterday and it was not his fault that players like the one in your avatar decided they where not going to show up after half time.

 

[citizen-erased]

Five of the Top 10 in the BnF last year were not out there yesterday.

One of our top five goal scorers last year was out there yesterday.

We were an 11-11 side last year.

I am more amazed that people think we should be more competitive rather than where we sit on the ladder.

There's not being good enough, and there's standards so low that you'd accept a reigning AA midfielder, a #1 draft pick and a 2x 1st rd pick trade racking up less tackles combined than the oppositions 2nd fwd/2nd ruck.

We should be ahead of a good many clubs who are setting winning cultures through standards. We seem to allow excuses too easily

 

[Milanista28]

The fact that most of our players who played bad In a shit loss already know they'll play next week is pretty insane.

 

[bombadeer]

I know a lot of clubs do it, but these ridiculous “win a premiership in 5 year” plan PR stunts when the club fails to be competitive in half of their regular season games… personal pet peeve of mine is organisations/people who talk about what they are going to do.

Words are the cheapest things on earth, and are worth next to nothing.

Actions are all that counts.

 

[ant555]

Why are we shit ? our number one ball winner is well this

 

[yodellinhank]

You mean the same Rutten that didn’t give Bellchambers a final game which pissed off some players and a lot of fans on this forum? You mean the same one that dropped Hooker to play Jones because that was the way forward?

That didn't pick Stringer though he put his hand up for selection. Truck has definitely done some things which haven't been typical at our club in quite some time.

 

[CBombers17]

There's not being good enough, and there's standards so low that you'd accept a reigning AA midfielder, a #1 draft pick and a 2x 1st rd pick trade racking up less tackles combined than the oppositions 2nd fwd/2nd ruck.

We should be ahead of a good many clubs who are setting winning cultures through standards. We seem to allow excuses too easily

Who do you blame though? Ruttens more or less in a bind because he's got no alternatives to the midfield offenders. He has done as much publicly as he can by calling them out.

Ultimately yes he needs to get them going but it does take a way a lot of your arsenal if you can't drop them - we he could but it would be a career limiting manoeuvre to go into an ANZAC day with say - Smith, Hepp, Caldwell and Draper as your starting midfield.

Then you could blame the list management and the finger pointing begins. That and the changes have apparently already been made so you would be sacking our contracts guy because 2 5 year old recruits had a mare. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure it would be doing something but thats not always better than doing nothing..

Maybe you could move on X. I don't know anyone who would care but if he's already pulled his head in is that going to make us a better team anytime soon? No.

What if we do nothing? If we wait perhaps some start to see Parish in a more clear light - and the real problems we have in the middle. We also get to see what we really need in terms of personel and list changes. The same pressure on these mids is also an opportunity for then to pull the finger out and buy into the plan. That or risk being shamed week in week out as the soft one way skiers most of us already know they are.

I see a lot of positives from this tbh. Better than a few wins off the back of Stringers brilliance in terms of the clubs real health anyway.

 

[citizen-erased]

I know a lot of clubs do it, but these ridiculous “win a premiership in 5 year” plan PR stunts when the club fails to be competitive in half of their regular season games… personal pet peeve of mine is organisations/people who talk about what they are going to do.

Words are the cheapest things on earth, and are worth next to nothing.

Actions are all that counts.

i don't mind them, but you want to see progress. take the 5 years post-ban.

Woosha era
'17 - Make finals. Seem to pat ourselves on the back despite losing by 10 goals.
'18 - Win/Loss stays the same, as does %. Tread water.
'19 - Win/Loss stays the same. % drops by 10. Lose another final by 10 goals.
'20 - Hit a low lower than the drugs years. Feeling around the club gives less hope.

Rutten era
'21 - Make finals with one less win but better % than recent years. Lose by 10 goals.
'22 - Shaping up as a finals miss.

Make finals, drop, make finals was a theme with Knights as it was Hird, then Woosha.
i am yet to be convinced the club knows how to take the next step.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

i don't mind them, but you want to see progress. take the 5 years post-ban.

Woosha era
'17 - Make finals. Seem to pat ourselves on the back despite losing by 10 goals.
'18 - Win/Loss stays the same, as does %. Tread water.
'19 - Win/Loss stays the same. % drops by 10. Lose another final by 10 goals.
'20 - Hit a low lower than the drugs years. Feeling around the club gives less hope.

Rutten era
'21 - Make finals with one less win but better % than recent years. Lose by 10 goals.
'22 - Shaping up as a finals miss.

Make finals, drop, make finals was a theme with Knights as it was Hird, then Woosha.
i am yet to be convinced the club knows how to take the next step.

its been 20 years.

the club doesn't know how to take the next step. That is a just factual.

 

[Foxx]

You mean the same Rutten that didn’t give Bellchambers a final game which pissed off some players and a lot of fans on this forum? You mean the same one that dropped Hooker to play Jones because that was the way forward?

Good points. But how tough can he be if his players just stand around? Or does he have no influence over them?

 

[citizen-erased]

Who do you blame though? Ruttens more or less in a bind because he's got no alternatives to the midfield offenders. He has done as much publicly as he can by calling them out.

Ultimately yes he needs to get them going but it does take a way a lot of your arsenal if you can't drop them - we he could but it would be a career limiting manoeuvre to go into an ANZAC day with say - Smith, Hepp, Caldwell and Draper as your starting midfield.

Then you could blame the list management and the finger pointing begins. That and the changes have apparently already been made so you would be sacking our contracts guy because 2 5 year old recruits had a mare. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure it would be doing something but thats not always better than doing nothing..

Maybe you could move on X. I don't know anyone who would care but if he's already pulled his head in is that going to make us a better team anytime soon? No.

What if we do nothing? If we wait perhaps some start to see Parish in a more clear light - and the real problems we have in the middle. We also get to see what we really need in terms of personel and list changes. The same pressure on these mids is also an opportunity for then to pull the finger out and buy into the plan. That or risk being shamed week in week out as the soft one way skiers most of us already know they are.

I see a lot of positives from this tbh. Better than a few wins off the back of Stringers brilliance in terms of the clubs real health anyway.

i don't think blame lies in one place, but a collective club culture.
Why is the effort conditional (leadership?).
Why can we only win games when they're played the way we like. (coaching? development? leadership?)
Why is our depth so poor (recruitment? development?)

your last statement is right only if the club is honest with itself.
We could barely face into Daniher leaving with the gift of a rebuild boost.
Can we make honest calls on players and the state of the list?

 

[CBombers17]

i don't think blame lies in one place, but a collective club culture.
Why is the effort conditional (leadership?).
Why can we only win games when they're played the way we like. (coaching? development? leadership?)
Why is our depth so poor (recruitment? development?)

your last statement is right only if the club is honest with itself.
We could barely face into Daniher leaving with the gift of a rebuild boost.
Can we make honest calls on players and the state of the list?

I agree and personally it's taken a while for me to hear enough about the changes to get a read on the validity (last year was a write off for me). I haven't believed a word the club has said for years because its been full of it - for a fact.

Brasher too was always talk for me until the fruits of his changes were observable. However I remained open to him actually having the power to implement the changes we needed - he just needed to make good ones and actually do it. One person can make big changes from the top down if they have the vision and the will. And based on the new structures people who know like Ant have described (and some contacts of my own) - plus some little signs like changes in midfield types we are taking at the draft - I am hopeful wr are on a good path here.

In terms of Rutten and all the other leaders I see them very much at the mercy of their results moving forward. I think that the past President and board had their heads too far up their own arses to know truth from fairy tales (plus Xaviers and Dodoros heads as well) and now everyone has had a good honest dialogues about where they stand. And for the better.

Sure I was pissed about all their appointments and lack of process (CEO, Head of Recruiting and Senior Coach) but we did it that way because the club is ****en hopeless. It's what shit organisations do. They can only get better If the most senior leaders are better and I think this one may well be.

Rutten is in a tough spot and is actually pretty vulnerable. I feel for him but if he's going to make it he needs to make lemonade out of lemons. He's at the helm of a big beast after all and he doesn't have any real record to speak of. So he's the perfect guy for the build. If we aren't happy he's gone. No fanfare or favourite son treatment for Ben. In the meantime, as long as him and the coaching panel develop the players and set up good systems we can't lose much there IMO. And who knows, if we get him a decent list he may actually get us closer than we think or take us all the way. Either way he's under the microscope.

The bottom line is cleaning up all the mess in these areas will immediately improve each areas performance. From this point the clubs culture will also have improved (not necessarily all the way but better). Clear chains of command and responsibility (Xavier keeping the **** out of football stuff) , Sensible reporting stuctures (RFK being left to do his job and run his area) and intuitive inclusions in different decision making (like coaches input into Recruiting) - if these changes make sense then people have clarity and the real possibility of success. This then becomes a higher performing environments/culture. Thats all you can ask for in an organisation IMO.

Before this we tried to look like one and sound like one right down to Xavier and all his corporate speak and it was a joke, Delusions of grandeur, a pantomime - marketing guy plays CEO of a Powerhouse club. That was obvious, these changes are real, subtle and very promising.

 

[Falcon27]

Sorry to intrude but I thought Guelfi's efforts were hard and physical all day. May not blessed with the skills of others but never gives in. Could he be an inside mid to toughen you up a bit in there?

Your right, he plays hard and digs in. But Guelfi is a prime example of how bad our list management and team balance is. Guefli’s skill set is nothing more then a hard nosed run with player to shut down an opposition gun. Yet we trying to make him creative half forward.

 

[windyhill]

To get out of being this shit, you also need luck. I’m talking being really shit but being lucky with it, Petracca fall in your lap luck, Walsh fall in your lap luck, a King here a king there. You don’t want to be shit this year as Brisbane take the no.1 player available as a father/son. We pick shit years to be shit with apologies to poor old Andy mcgrath.

 

[citizen-erased]

I agree and personally it's taken a while for me to hear enough about the changes to get a read on the validity (last year was a write off for me). I haven't believed a word the club has said for years because its been full of it - for a fact.

Brasher too was always talk for me until the fruits of his changes were observable. However I remained open to him actually having the power to implement the changes we needed - he just needed to make good ones and actually do it. One person can make big changes from the top down if they have the vision and the will. And based on the new structures people who know like Ant have described (and some contacts of my own) - plus some little signs like changes in midfield types we are taking at the draft - I am hopeful wr are on a good path here.

In terms of Rutten and all the other leaders I see them very much at the mercy of their results moving forward. I think that the past President and board had their heads too far up their own arses to know truth from fairy tales (plus Xaviers and Dodoros heads as well) and now everyone has had a good honest dialogues about where they stand. And for the better.

Sure I was pissed about all their appointments and lack of process (CEO, Head of Recruiting and Senior Coach) but we did it that way because the club is fu**en hopeless. It's what shit organisations do. They can only get better If the most senior leaders are better and I think this one may well be.

Rutten is in a tough spot and is actually pretty vulnerable. I feel for him but if he's going to make it he needs to make lemonade out of lemons. He's at the helm of a big beast after all and he doesn't have any real record to speak of. So he's the perfect guy for the build. If we aren't happy he's gone. No fanfare or favourite son treatment for Ben. In the meantime, as long as him and the coaching panel develop the players and set up good systems we can't lose much there IMO. And who knows, if we get him a decent list he may actually get us closer than we think or take us all the way. Either way he's under the microscope.

The bottom line is cleaning up all the mess in these areas will immediately improve each areas performance. From this point the clubs culture will also have improved (not necessarily all the way but better). Clear chains of command and responsibility (Xavier keeping the fu** out of football stuff) , Sensible reporting stuctures (RFK being left to do his job and run his area) and intuitive inclusions in different decision making (like coaches input into Recruiting) - if these changes make sense then people have clarity and the real possibility of success. This then becomes a higher performing environments/culture. Thats all you can ask for in an organisation IMO.

Before this we tried to look like one and sound like one right down to Xavier and all his corporate speak and it was a joke, Delusions of grandeur, a pantomime - marketing guy plays CEO of a Powerhouse club. That was obvious, these changes are real, subtle and very promising.

Watched the Truck presser and for whatever reason the word that stood out this week was "disappointed"
I wonder how many times he's said that in the last 16 months.
I'd like to compare that over the next 20 months.
after a while you have to stop being disappointed, and accept that this is the standard you've delivered.

i don't expect a flag in the next 2-3 years.
TBH, i haven't expected a flag since 01. club has never given me that vibe we're close.

but for the first time in 20 years, i'd like to go to the footy mostly confident we'll play well.
it's a chore to watch this team. and has been for (sigh, just realised this) more than half my life. and i had no idea about the club for the first 8 years of it.

 

[Cold Sober]

No Stringer no Essendon, A league playing with B graders. We need De Goey Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

or Tom Mitchell.
We have more potential than an eighth dwarf at a Snow White convention, someone take control FFS.

 

[CBombers17]

Watched the Truck presser and for whatever reason the word that stood out this week was "disappointed"
I wonder how many times he's said that in the last 16 months.
I'd like to compare that over the next 20 months.
after a while you have to stop being disappointed, and accept that this is the standard you've delivered.

i don't expect a flag in the next 2-3 years.
TBH, i haven't expected a flag since 01. club has never given me that vibe we're close.

but for the first time in 20 years, i'd like to go to the footy mostly confident we'll play well.
it's a chore to watch this team. and has been for (sigh, just realised this) more than half my life. and i had no idea about the club for the first 8 years of it.

Honestly in the early days I wondered if he would get a word out. I could see him just staring at everyone at the presser mute until they just had to shut it down - maybe just shake his head or some sort of non verbal communication. It looked like it was going to be painful.

They have to say something. Maybe he will surprise us and go all Wayne Bennett- or start telling funny relatable stories from his playing days. Either way it's rearely reflective of what is actually happening for him internally or behind the scenes of course.

 

[citizen-erased]

To get out of being this shit, you also need luck. I’m talking being really shit but being lucky with it, Petracca fall in your lap luck, Walsh fall in your lap luck, a King here a king there. You don’t want to be shit this year as Brisbane take the no.1 player available as a father/son. We pick shit years to be shit with apologies to poor old Andy mcgrath.

funny thing is, we got lucky with 2016. we got pick 1 despite being a mid table team. that's a ****ing gift right there.

Had 3 options to pick a top player to compliment a list that was not spoon standard.
What did we do? took a short mid to go with Merrett and Parish. then recruited two more via 1st rd picks the next two years....and another last year.

We're a special type of stupid at Essendon.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Dust settled… are we really shit?

Not really, imo.

We’re average though. I think we basically had to start again in 2021 both in terms of the team and having a coach who had half a clue.

We rode a nice curve upward pretty much all last year and life seemed good, but it doesn’t just happen in a linear fashion.

We’re still a very young team.

We have substantial injuries at the moment.

Our draw last year flattered us in the end. Our record against good sides was terrible.

We’ve faced some bloody good sides in the first five weeks - incl Freo who are a fair bit ahead of what many people realise.

We are still very, very much in the throes of rebuild. Everybody was super positive last year, Merrett went from supposedly nearly leaving to signing a long term deal because he wanted to be part of the future. I don’t think you throw all that away in the space of a month.

We have to keep getting games into Caldwell (19 games), Cox (25), Draper (26), Durham (11), Hobbs (1), Jones (16), Martin (4), Perkins (26) and Reid (1). We need to work out Cox’s position and Jones and Reid’s bodies are a concern. But they’re the focus.