why aren't Fitzroy's premierships considered part of Brisbane Lions history?

[Roylion]

I support Swan Districts in the WAFL. And Western Force in Super Rugby. And... who cares? You can support as many clubs in as many competitions as you want.

Of course I can. And my old club in the AFL (up until 1996) is now in a different competition.

You support Brisbane because of the connection to Fitzroy.

Yes?

The club which changed its name to Lions from Bears.

Rebranded.

The club which changed its jumper to that resembling Fitzroy's.

Rebranded.

The club which is required to have a Lion as its emblem in perpetuity.

Rebranded. The Bears wrote the Deed and offered to do that if they could get $6 million and the pick of Fitzroy's AFL list. Fitzroy was leaving the AFL competition, via the surrendering of its AFL licence.

The club who has BBFFC on the back of its jumper.

Rebranded. Brisbane Bears members voted to change the official name of the club from Brisbane Bears Football Club to Brisbane Bears Fitzroy Football Club. The two original clubs weren't merged, despite the AFL trying to give that impression. Even the definition in the Deed of "merged club" means "Brisbane Bears"

The club who agreed to sign at least 8 players from Fitzroy.

AFL concession.

The club who absorbed all of Fitzroy's history pertaining to football club operations.

Football Club Operations means the day to day running of Fitzroy s an AFL club. (equipment, staff- many of whom were promptly sacked anyway) and so on.

The club who was required to appoint Fitzroy nominees to its board. Etc.

No serving Fitzroy director has served on the Brisbane Bears / Lions board ever. None of the three Fitzroy co-opted representatives, Laurie Serafini, David Lucas and Ken Levy, chosen by the Brisbane Bears to serve on the Brisbane Lions board were Fitzroy directors. Ken Levy had been a Fitzroy director, but he had concluded his tenure in 1994.

But there was no merger. Just a re-branding. A jumper change.

A rebranding.

I was going to ask about your pre-VFL history, seeing as Brisbane merely 'commemorate your VFL/AFL identity'.

Fitzroy Football Club began in 1883. Fitzroy commemorates all of its 132 year history.

That aside, if you are commemorating your own history then what history are Brisbane commemorating as part of the merger conditions? Did someone make duplicates of everything from 1897-1996?

Duplicates? Fitzroy have their own honourboards and the like down at the Brunswick Street Oval. For example, just recently they had an ANZAC Day ceremony at half time of the seniors remembering all the Fitzroy Football Club players who served and fell in the wars. Brisbane weren't involved at all. Fitzroy memorabilia regularly makes appearances at Fitzroy Club functions such as the actual 1944 flag, which I myself have helped put on display at a few functions.

But there was no merger, so I'll have to reassess that...

That you will.

 

[Reality Check!]

Where are Fitzroy's actual premiership flags currently located?

 

[Augustine]

Fiztroy still exists. AFL should help them get into the VFL, as an olive branch.

 

[parano1a]

For example in 1986 and again in 1994 Melbourne and Fitzroy discussed a merger which very nearly happened. An in-principle' tentative agreement was reached that a company called the "Melbourne Football Club - Fitzroy Football Club Pty Ltd", operating as the "Melbourne Lions" would be formed. The jumper of the new team was essentially the traditional red and blue Melbourne jumper with a gold band separating the two colours, the gold Fitzroy lion logo featured on the front and a gold number on the back.

The Adelaide Crows would not have allowed this arrangement (Just as Collingwood didn't allow Port to wear the same colours as it)

 

[Jiska]

I'd support it, because of the Fitzroy identity, but even if Fitzroy had relocated, lock, stock and barrel to Brisbane in 1987, Fitzroy supporters remaining in Melbourne would still be in fairly much the same situation as now - 5-6 games per season and supporting a Queensland-centric club.

For that reason, upon reflection, I would have preferred a merger with a Melbourne based club, as long as a significant Fitzroy identity was in the branding of the club. For example in 1986 and again in 1994 Melbourne and Fitzroy discussed a merger which very nearly happened. An in-principle' tentative agreement was reached that a company called the "Melbourne Football Club - Fitzroy Football Club Pty Ltd", operating as the "Melbourne Lions" would be formed. The jumper of the new team was essentially the traditional red and blue Melbourne jumper with a gold band separating the two colours, the gold Fitzroy lion logo featured on the front and a gold number on the back. They were to play out of the MCG.

I could have lived with the "Melbourne Lions".

The proposal with North Melb in 1996 would have been a better outcome too.

 

[krisholio14]

Good to see the AFL's propaganda machine has had its desired effect on some.....

 

[TwentyNine]

Because they are different football clubs.

 

[Roylion]

Where are Fitzroy's actual premiership flags currently located?

Six of the eight are missing. The Historical Society has the others.

An article on Fitzroy in the VAFA from 2009

Royboys rebooted

In that article, Fitzroy club secretary Bill Atherton stated:

“Who cares? They’re only reflecting reality. Fitzroy did not merge with the Brisbane Bears. It was an acquisition by the Bears of Fitzroy bits and pieces.”

 

[Heardy_101]

I'm curious about something.

Was the anniversary of the 1944 premiership celebrated last year? Did Brisbane acknowledge it?

I posted the same question on the Fitzroy board and never got a response.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Cos it wasn't a merger

 

[Kram]

Wish they could un merge them and just bring the lions back

Yeah because that's what the league needs, more shit teams running around.

 

[Roysforever]

Good to see the AFL's propaganda machine has had its desired effect on some.....

Bullseye!!! History is written by the winners and thereby as time goes by the pool of informed persons becomes less and less.

As an impressionable teenager during the mid-90s the whole experience of Fitzroy's removal from the AFL had a profound and unshakeable effect upon me. These days I certainly endeavour to advocate and go into bat for those who struggle to find a voice.

 

[The King!]

Yeah because that's what the league needs, more shit teams running around.

Not saying it should happen, just sad a team basically died

 

[JackFlash]

It was a take over not a merger, any similarity the Brisbane Lions have to Fitzroy is purely coincidental.

 

[Roylion]

I'm curious about something.

Was the anniversary of the 1944 premiership celebrated last year? Did Brisbane acknowledge it?

I posted the same question on the Fitzroy board and never got a response.

The 70th anniversary on 30th September 2014? No, not really. Fitzroy's 2014 season had finished four weeks beforehand. There is a page on the Brisbane Lions website about the game.

Fitzroy Football Club had an article on the 1944 premiership on their website in their "memories of Junction Oval" series. Still there I think.

 

[eldorado]

There was no 'merger' despite the AFL's use of the term. So they are already "unmerged"

Yep, as I recall it was only 8 players that went from Fitzroy to a pre-existing team called the Bears...who then changed their name and jumper.

It's all about the continuity. Sydney moved the players and jumper at the same time; the South Melbourne fans had much more basis on which to see it as the same team (even if they were pissed off with the move)

Fitzroy/ Brisbane are NOT the same at all...never a merge

 

[Cudi_420]

I could have lived with the "Melbourne Lions".

That was close, wasn't it? I remember in 1994 the boards of both clubs meeting up to discuss a merger and Robbie Flower chucking up a stink about up on Channel 9.

Yeah because that's what the league needs, more shit teams running around.

Bit ironic coming from a guy who supports a club that's made the finals only 6 times in 20 seasons.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Merged clubs should be treated like a separate club compared to their parent clubs when it comes to history.
All fine and good for the club to tip its hat at the Fitzroy flags and all, but the official tally of flags for the current Lions still stands at 3.

South Melbourne Swans and Sydney Swans are one and the same, only a location change.

 

[Reality Check!]

Six of the eight are missing. The Historical Society has the others.
In that article, Fitzroy club secretary Bill Atherton stated:

“Who cares? They’re only reflecting reality. Fitzroy did not merge with the Brisbane Bears. It was an acquisition by the Bears of Fitzroy bits and pieces.”

If Fitzroy fans truly believe this, why would any of them want to support the Brisbane Lions? That's "literally" the same as watching someone kill your dad, rape your mother and then accepting him as your new father. It doesn't make any sense.

I for one do not believe this. I was there at the 2001 grand final and after Lynch banged one through he ran over to some old Fitzroy guys and shouted out 'that one was for the ****ING ROYBOYS'. Later when the siren had sounded he came over to them again, and they were all in tears. One of the old Fitzroy guys sobbing '57 long years, it's been 57 long years'.

 

[eldorado]

If Fitzroy fans truly believe this, why would any of them want to support the Brisbane Lions? That's "literally" the same as watching someone kill your dad, rape your mother and then accepting him as your new father. It doesn't make any sense.

I for one do not believe this. I was there at the 2001 grand final and after Lynch banged one through he ran over to some old Fitzroy guys and shouted out 'that one was for the ******* ROYBOYS'. Later when the siren had sounded he came over to them again, and they were all in tears. One of the old Fitzroy guys sobbing '57 long years, it's been 57 long years'.

Some fans may have at least tried to follow the new team as if it was theirs.

The Fitzroy fans I knew (only three, tbh) certainly didn't feel that way. Footy at an AFL level was dead to them...

 

[Roylion]

If Fitzroy fans truly believe this, why would any of them want to support the Brisbane Lions?

I've already stated why some Fitzroy fans support the Brisbane Lions. Why I support the Brisbane Lions in the AFL.

I for one do not believe this. I was there at the 2001 grand final

So was I. Supporting Brisbane. I was also at the 2002, 2003 and 2004 Grand Finals. Supporting Brisbane.

and after Lynch banged one through he ran over to some old Fitzroy guys and shouted out 'that one was for the ******* ROYBOYS'. Later when the siren had sounded he came over to them again, and they were all in tears. One of the old Fitzroy guys sobbing '57 long years, it's been 57 long years'.

Yes? And? If some Fitzroy fans regard Brisbane as their AFL team because of their Fitzroy connection (a connection which I've never denied incidentally), then good on them. However that doesn't mean that there was a 'merger'.

 

[Viceregal]

Does anyone here get offended when Brisbane supporters who were never Royboys talk about Fitzroy's history/heritage as though it is theirs - ie effectively consider that today's Lions are the offspring of dual heritage and embrace a history going back past the start of the Bears to when Fitzroy started ... find it offensive or unpalatable when the Lion's B&F is the Merrett-Murray medal etc?

I was always under the impression that they wouldn't but reading some of the posts here makes me wonder if some people would really rather just dance on Brisbane's grave and take back all the Roy bits that they fell they morally (if not legally) have no right to ...

 

[Reality Check!]

Yes? And? If some Fitzroy fans regard Brisbane as their AFL team because of their Fitzroy connection (a connection which I've never denied incidentally), then good on them. However that doesn't mean that there was a 'merger'.

I'm sorry but I've gone back through the posts again and I still don't understand why you support Brisbane if you have the view there was never a merger. Most people have a rational reason behind their choice of teams, dad supports them, liked the colours or the team was just so dominant when they were growing up. Your reason is that the AFL kicked your club out, but another club decided to take bits of their artwork which were only part of your own club's history for maybe 20 years tops? Not trying to be offensive, but it just seems bizarre to support a team which you believe cuckolded Fitzroy.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm sorry but I've gone back through the posts again and I still don't understand why you support Brisbane if you have the view there was never a merger. Most people have a rational reason behind their choice of teams, dad supports them, liked the colours or the team was just so dominant when they were growing up. Your reason is that the AFL kicked your club out, but another club decided to take bits of their artwork which were only part of your own club's history for maybe 20 years tops? Not trying to be offensive, but it just seems bizarre to support a team which you believe cuckolded Fitzroy.

Why does it matter? Maybe the reason a person would support Fitzoy was that theyliked the colour maroon, or the animal the Lion. Why does anybody support any footy club in general? As such, the rebranded Brisbane team wore maroon and had a Lions as their mascot, perhaps also fufilling the same reason why people went for Fitzroy in the first place.

 

[SgtSchulz]

People worrying about a club that last won a VFL premiership in 1944. Meanwhile every WAFL club and 9 SANFL clubs got shafted by franchises. Lel Norwood.