Why did Port do well? Also compared to Freo, and why they've done so poorly (and WC, Adelaide)?

[PerthBoy86]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_records#Team_wins.2C_losses_and_draws

Of all the interstate clubs, Port Adelaide and West Coast probably jumped off the blocks the quickest after entering the competition. Within a few years of entering in 1997, they were already near the top, and were challenging in the finals, winning their first in 2004 after 7 years. The Eagles were similar, winning their first premiership in 1992 after a mere 5 years. The Power actually had a better winning record against the Crows until very recently, and had their measure in the Showdown.

This isn't a Freo bashing thread, but the contrast with Freo is stark. Only a few finals appearances, and they didn't even beat West Coast in the Derby until 1999. One GF appearance, 21 years in the comp and still no premiership. The second worst win/loss percentage after St. Kilda.

I'm wondering, serious question, why Port did so well? I know their early list was largely transferred from a highly successful SANFL club that dominated the SANFL at times, while Fremantle were created from scratch. So were West Coast and Adelaide, mind you, and they've already achieved premierships.

I guess another side of the coin is why Freo have done so poorly. They're from a footy mad town, it's not like they lack funding or talent or support either. Fremantle, a place I know well and love dearly, have a proud footballing history. After winning a minor premiership they fall more spectacularly than any club in modern times, albeit with a few injuries. As much as I love beating them in the Derby I actually wish they did better for WA footy, though they've come close recently. I was going for them in the 2013 GF. But yeah, the contrast is striking.

 

[saintal]

Confusing thread title.

 

[i am a logo]

I guess another side of the coin is why Freo have done so poorly. They're from a footy mad town, it's not like they lack funding or talent or support either. Fremantle, a place I know well and love dearly, have a proud footballing history. After winning a minor premiership they fall more spectacularly than any club in modern times, albeit with a few injuries. As much as I love beating them in the Derby I actually wish they did better for WA footy, though they've come close recently. I was going for them in the 2013 GF. But yeah, the contrast is striking.

It's common knowledge that Fremantle's list management during those early years was crap. Despite not having the same level of concessions as West Coast did in the 80s, Fremantle still could have been a consistent finals presence, due to the massive WA home ground advantage, which by default can get you a spot in the lower reaches of the top 8. In the mid to late 90s, a rather mediocre West Coast list full of spuds and aging stars always snuck into the top 8, before quickly getting bundled out of the finals, since they were able to fully utilize that home ground advantage.

Port Adelaide's success in the early 2000s can just be put down to more luck / intelligence during the draft.

 

[Proper Gander]

I clicked on this thread pretty much to see if I could decipher the central idea behind it - because the title gave no clear hints.

I'm still pretty confused.

 

[nurries]

The dockers entered the comp the year after eagles won the GF. They weren't going to risk making another super power in the west, thus the crap concessions

 

[The Joker]

The dockers entered the comp the year after eagles won the GF. They weren't going to risk making another super power in the west, thus the crap concessions

Thats a new one, ill just go right ahead and put that in my book of excuses right now thank you!

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Crap concessions, crap list management, poor future planning etc. it's pretty well documented and well known. Wasn't until about 2008/9 onwards that things started to change at the club including a full rebrand, totally different draft, development and recruitment approach and a new coach.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Crows had 2 flags by the 8th year I'd say that's jumping out the blocks well

I can't remember specifics because i was only a kid but I'm pretty sure Freo had better concessions than Port.

+1 for confusing thread title

 

[Righteo]

OP makes gillo94 's threads look coherent.

 

[Runnin Blue]

A club that trades Andrew McLeod for Chris Groom is not destined for success.

 

[nurries]

A club that trades Andrew McLeod for Chris Groom is not destined for success.

McLeod did a Wingard and refused to leave SA

 

[schnoods]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_records#Team_wins.2C_losses_and_draws

Of all the interstate clubs, Port Adelaide and West Coast probably jumped off the blocks the quickest after entering the competition. Within a few years of entering in 1997, they were already near the top, and were challenging in the finals, winning their first in 2004 after 7 years. The Eagles were similar, winning their first premiership in 1992 after a mere 5 years. The Power actually had a better winning record against the Crows until very recently, and had their measure in the Showdown.

This isn't a Freo bashing thread, but the contrast with Freo is stark. Only a few finals appearances, and they didn't even beat West Coast in the Derby until 1999. One GF appearance, 21 years in the comp and still no premiership. The second worst win/loss percentage after St. Kilda.

I'm wondering, serious question, why Port did so well? I know their early list was largely transferred from a highly successful SANFL club that dominated the SANFL at times, while Fremantle were created from scratch. So were West Coast and Adelaide, mind you, and they've already achieved premierships.

I guess another side of the coin is why Freo have done so poorly. They're from a footy mad town, it's not like they lack funding or talent or support either. Fremantle, a place I know well and love dearly, have a proud footballing history. After winning a minor premiership they fall more spectacularly than any club in modern times, albeit with a few injuries. As much as I love beating them in the Derby I actually wish they did better for WA footy, though they've come close recently. I was going for them in the 2013 GF. But yeah, the contrast is striking.

Have a look in part at when Fitzroy was dissolved, it played a part in getting off the ground running for Port. Also a strong Sanfl affiliation and the Sanfl being reasonably untapped


Also a big part in what Fremantle had to start with..

"Fremantle's initial squad of 50 players was compiled from a mixture of uncontracted players from other AFL clubs (maximum of 12 over two years), players who had previously nominated for the AFL draft but not been selected (unlimited from the WAFL, two each from the SANFL, VFL and TFL), up to ten delisted AFL players, trades with any other AFL club, unlimited selections from their four "aligned" WAFL clubs and selections 1, 4 and then the first two selections in each round of the 1994 AFL draft"

We didn't get the same luck Port had with timing of delisted players or ones willing to be traded.. (namely Wanganeen, Primus, Cummings, etc).

But probably our biggest worst enemy was the freo list management. Players we got rid of in the first few years of our club were

Peter Bell (who we traded for later)
Brad Wira (who we traded for later)
Jeff Farmer (who we traded for later)
Phillip Matera
Andrew McLeod (who our selectors never saw kick a footy)
Jeff White

Even still in our foundation year, the uncontracted players we signed gave compensation picks to the teams affected by the AFl, missing out on players like Matthew Lloyd, Stephen King, Adam Houlihan, David Wirrapanda instead getting Stephen O'Reilly, Andrew Wills (who had 1 great season) , Tony Godden and Todd Ridley. We even traded our picks for some mediocre players , whilst trading future solid players like Darryl Wakelin or pick 42.

Biggest crime was trading the number 1 pick though, took another 5 years to recover to be a competitive club, we always traded aggressively whilst continuously getting burnt until we started unearthing and blooding our own players, whilst finding a solid coach in Connolly. After that its just a bit up and down.

A big factor might be the West Australian Football Commission owning the Fremantle team, Initially it seemed mismanaged and it got pretty ugly till 2000-2001, it seemed better when Schwab got involved and it got better for a few years before the mass retirings, since 2008 when Rosich was appointed, it has gone to a more professional level with development and trading (compared to the start) and has slowly blossomed to what it is now, which until this year was a steadily rising before the elevator cable snapped.

 

[mightymouse75]

Meh. Port had a good look at our early stuff ups and learnt from them.

 

[Righteo]

McLeod did a Wingard and refused to leave SA

Basically cracked the shits when Neesham didn't polish his knob when he came in for an interview. Was no surprise that so many of his best games came against Freo, a petty person but no doubt good fortune for the Crows being the only SA team at the time.

 

[estibador]

"Fremantle's initial squad of 50 players was compiled from a mixture of uncontracted players from other AFL clubs (maximum of 12 over two years), players who had previously nominated for the AFL draft but not been selected (unlimited from the WAFL, two each from the SANFL, VFL and TFL), up to ten delisted AFL players, trades with any other AFL club, unlimited selections from their four "aligned" WAFL clubs and selections 1, 4 and then the first two selections in each round of the 1994 AFL draft"

Who drew up these stupid entry conditions?

"Ok, you can sign some rejects that the other clubs have delisted... but no more than 10, otherwise that would be unfair"

"And you can sign some kids that the other clubs decided weren't worth drafting, but no more than two from the other states. We don't want you stockpiling all that great young talent"

 

[Runnin Blue]

McLeod did a Wingard and refused to leave SA

Because your then coach made him feel insulted during his interview. Before that happened, he was a happy Freo player.

 

[xflamedancer]

The Power actually have a better winning record against the Crows until very recently, and had their measure in the Showdown.

Minor correction, Port won the first Showdown and have never been headed in the Showdown count.

 

[Freomaniac]

A club that trades Andrew McLeod for Chris Groom is not destined for success.

We get that every day
Just like you guys traded out tippet and gunston

 

[davos44]

Minor correction, Port won the first Showdown and have never been headed in the Showdown count.

It was 3-2 in early 99, but that was it.

 

[davos44]

McLeod did a Wingard and refused to leave SA

Mcleod is from the NT.

 

[Bokonon]

It's really easy to understand. Port represent the dark side, and rhat is a powerful force in the universe.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Mcleod is from the NT.

IIRC he had just played in Ports 1994 SANFL premiership side and was "happy" to go wherever. I don't think he ever did the "I won't go here, here or here" but happy to be proven wrong. When that trade was done he was incredibly happy to stay in Adelaide though.

 

[clivenator26]

In before someone mentions we traded Lloyd & Lucas.

Too many Claremont players and other list management disasters.

Poor recruiting of established players, apparently we were very close on Loewe, Rob Harvey, Tingay & Mansfield but could really only attract ex WA guys and Willsy.

Neglecting of the draft, some of the ****-ups were just embarrassing. Drafting a guy at pick 7 in the national draft and then delisting him before the season!

Our concessions were good enough, if we had have been smart we'd have played finals and been a contender earlier. In 97 we almost made the finals but had a ridiculous injury list.

Ben Allan's knee also didn't help. The delisting of Peter Bell was terrible.

 

[STFU Donnie]

In before someone mentions we traded Lloyd & Lucas.

Too many Claremont players and other list management disasters.

Poor recruiting of established players, apparently we were very close on Loewe, Rob Harvey, Tingay & Mansfield but could really only attract ex WA guys and Willsy.

Neglecting of the draft, some of the ****-ups were just embarrassing. Drafting a guy at pick 7 in the national draft and then delisting him before the season!

Our concessions were good enough, if we had have been smart we'd have played finals and been a contender earlier. In 97 we almost made the finals but had a ridiculous injury list.

Ben Allan's knee also didn't help. The delisting of Peter Bell was terrible.

Seriously? Can you elaborate please? I CBA looking it up; I'm still digesting the fact that Damian Drum has been elected to the federal parliament.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Seriously? Can you elaborate please? I CBA looking it up; I'm still digesting the fact that Damian Drum has been elected to the federal parliament.

I saw that too. I was like, that was so totally random LOL.