Why do people think the Pies are so far ahead?

[Cousin of Daicos]

That's exactly my point, and what those declaring the Pies "so far ahead of the rest" are missing.

Injuries are just one of the things throughout a season that can derail a team and I was using it as an example of why Collingwood are a LONG way from certainties for the flag.

The cards fell Collingwood's way in 2010, which few people predicted after 2009. So what's to say the same couldn't happen for someone else in 2011?

Part of the reason Collingwood doesn't have a LOT of injuries is the sports science department.

They invested a lot of money in it many years ago, and have managed the players well. It's them who implemented the high rotations, and those rotations are one of the major reasons for Collingwood lack of injuries. As Hawthorn experienced in the 2nd half of 2010 when THEIR rotations went up.

 

[The Finger]

Part of the reason Collingwood doesn't have a LOT of injuries is the sports science department.

They invested a lot of money in it many years ago, and have managed the players well. It's them who implemented the high rotations, and those rotations are one of the major reasons for Collingwood lack of injuries. As Hawthorn experienced in the 2nd half of 2010 when THEIR rotations went up.

So which is it, you had a bad injury run a page ago now you dont?

 

[Brad Goodman]

So which is it, you had a bad injury run a page ago now you dont?

It wasn't a bad injury run, but it was an injury run. It did exist, contrary to what some are claiming.

 

[jonbe54]

Woah, why are you being so defensive?

You're probably not aware that after Collingwood, Hawthorn had the highest number of interchange rotations (after round 7 when it clicked that things just weren't working), so I'm as interested in seeing how it affects my team as it does yours.

I think the new interchange rule offers a great opportunity to whoever can exploit it the best - I've just got no idea how it can be exploited as a competitive advantage.

As previously stated attack breeds defense. As far as the competitive advantage IMHO the team that manages mids rotation through resting roles on half forward/ half back lines to give them a rest AND still keep them available to help/link best is going to get a significant advantage. Pies have a decent number of multi-position players and more that can pinch hit for awhile so we believe that will help. Other teams have other theories. It's all conjecture at the moment but exploiting it or failing to could be a significant factor in the race this year

 

[jonbe54]

I personally thought the bounce to Dawes sitting on his arse was 'the bounce'

The Hayes one can be looked at as a glass half full, either way get the ball into the goalsquare and something might happen.

Have to agree Dawes sitting on his arse with ball in hand was funny but funnier still was him handpassing from that possie for a maggies goal.

Both the glass half full and glass half empty are wrong.

There appears to be some liquid in the glass is correct, nothing more or less than what is readily apparent until proved/disproved.

 

[The Finger]

It wasn't a bad injury run, but it was an injury run. It did exist, contrary to what some are claiming.

All teams do no one would argue any differant. But in 2010 Collingwoods injury run was minor compared to StKilda Geelong and WB.

 

[jonbe54]

Hawthorn had those injuries in the early part of 2010. Perhaps without those injuries we would have won another 3-4 games and finished top 4 - from there, who knows?

My point is, if say Collingwood lose 3-4 of your important players in the middle of the year, and drop say 3-4 games, winning a flag from that point can be tough. Anything can happen.

As for Nick Maxwell, if he was forced to be accountable he would be a bit part player at best. I'm not sure I've ever seen him beat an opponent. But the way MM uses him he is very important to your structure.

You mentioned maxwell as an integral player not me and as for forcing him to be accountable please be our guest as that ties up another potential goal kicking forward along with Harry O's opponent and even Heater's opponent, that makes @ least three potential goal kicking forwards spending time making sure to cover their opponent instead of concentrating on getting free to make themselves available/usable. I don't think any coach would like tying up his forward options that much do you?
As regards injuries I again agree multiple key position injuries would set ANY team back and its just as liable to happen to pies as anyone else.

 

[TownleyTime]

I think the new interchange rule offers a great opportunity to whoever can exploit it the best - I've just got no idea how it can be exploited as a competitive advantage.

A lot of people are making pure guess work in regards to the new i/c rule. Collingwood's major advantage with i/c is that they rotate their midfield, i.e. Swan, Pendlebury, Ball, Wellingham & co more than any midfield group. This isn't going to change, all it means is that defensive/forward players won't rotate to any great effect.

The team with the biggest midfield group is going to take advantage of the new rule. Which team is that?

 

[the distributer]

All teams do no one would argue any differant. But in 2010 Collingwoods injury run was minor compared to StKilda Geelong and WB.

AA player medhurst injured for the season, ended his career.

AA player leon davis played injured all season.

AA player alan didak played injured for the latter part of the year, torn peck, his imput was way down after that.

AA player luke ball missed a few games here and there.

AA player nick maxwell ditto.

our best small fwd brad dick couldnt get on the park.

our no1 FB presty missed many games throughout the season including the finals.

many more missed multiple games as well, but, what ever helps you sleep at night mate.

 

[FuManchu]

All teams do no one would argue any differant. But in 2010 Collingwoods injury run was minor compared to StKilda Geelong and WB.

And the one common denominator with all those teams, that Collingwood will not face for a while:

AGE

The older your list, the more prone to debilitating injuries. When our average age for the playing list is around 27plus, then I expect more injuries too. next year, it will be around the 23 to 24 mark.

 

[robs_drunk]

I think this is a gross over estimate, everyone's talking about how they lost nothing and have added player's.

The fact's are they lost almost all of there so called depth Obree, lockyer, presti, medhurst and fraser. These player's might not have been getting a game a season's end due to other's playing well but this doesn't always continue on. Look at hawthorn you could easily argue Ladson, Osborne, Bateman, campbell where integral to them winning in 2008. Now these blokes are either retired due to injury, out of form or in some cases seen as list cloggers.

There is a list of 8 blokes who pie fan's expect to play just as well or better, but in the cold hard light of the hangover blokes like L.Brown, wellingham goldsack, blair, ried, n.brown, davis and woods. Will likely give the same output or less in the future.

You'd might think that's fine and we will have blokes coming through who can take there spot's. but between injury and the so called credit's you get for being a premiership player this can get the team in to a big hole before anything is done 2010 hawks 1-7.

 

[doppleganger]

All teams do no one would argue any differant. But in 2010 Collingwoods injury run was minor compared to StKilda Geelong and WB.

Apart from Riewoldt....have St.Kilda had an injury to a bloke in their top 22 for the last two years???

Dogs fell apart at end of season, will give you that.....

Who were the Cats missing in the PF?

 

[the distributer]

I think this is a gross over estimate, everyone's talking about how they lost nothing and have added player's.

The fact's are they lost almost all of there so called depth Obree, lockyer, presti, medhurst and fraser. These player's might not have been getting a game a season's end due to other's playing well but this doesn't always continue on. Look at hawthorn you could easily argue Ladson, Osborne, Bateman, campbell where integral to them winning in 2008. Now these blokes are either retired due to injury, out of form or in some cases seen as list cloggers.

There is a list of 8 blokes who pie fan's expect to play just as well or better, but in the cold hard light of the hangover blokes like L.Brown, wellingham goldsack, blair, ried, n.brown, davis and woods. Will likely give the same output or less in the future.

You'd might think that's fine and we will have blokes coming through who can take there spot's. but between injury and the so called credit's you get for being a premiership player this can get the team in to a big hole before anything is done 2010 hawks 1-7.

so because some of your players went down hill that means some of ours will too? lol, the great brisbane team never had that trouble, neither did geelong, remember mate, your flag was a fluke, you "had" a great game plan, your 2 key fwds kicked 180 odd goals between them and even then the cats shouldve beaten you.

fast fwd to 09 and you guys were worked out, you couldnt get the ball to your KFs anywhere near as much, ditto 2010, we dont rely on KFs to kick our goals and our gameplan will be much much harder to combat.

you may say me saying your flag was a fluke a tad harsh, but you were crap before 08 and you've been crap ever since, i find it laughable how people keep saying the hawks are the ones to watch in season 2011, they were saying that in 09 and 2010 as well, the hawks are way behind last years top 5 IMO, just a good ordinary team, we're a way better team than you guys were in 08.

 

[robs_drunk]

Our's was a fluke, 20 seconds more in GF1 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If you honestly think you can laugh at the thought of no player at collingwood turning crap, explain to me why just about everyone of your supporters in 09 want Leigh brown shot?

So collingwood was just playing a game plan were they continually kick around the boundry that other sides couldn't stop because they were so busy filling the middle. Game plan's mean nothing if the cattle is either injured or no longer up to it.

 

[PieNSauce]

Our's was a fluke, 20 seconds more in GF1 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

CBF about the rest of your argument but this one has been shown to be patently false. 20 seconds longer and Collingwood would almost certainly have won the first GF because they dominated the last 6 minutes of that game more than at any other time in the match. If you watch that last 6 minutes you will see plain as the nose on your face that the Saints were begging for the final siren after Collingwood had stormed back from a goal down to have more inside 50's, (about 5 to 1), More shots on goal, and scored the only goal. If that tells you they'd have won it given more time then I don't know what drugs you're taking but please pass them round.

 

[the distributer]

Our's was a fluke, 20 seconds more in GF1 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If you honestly think you can laugh at the thought of no player at collingwood turning crap, explain to me why just about everyone of your supporters in 09 want Leigh brown shot?

So collingwood was just playing a game plan were they continually kick around the boundry that other sides couldn't stop because they were so busy filling the middle. Game plan's mean nothing if the cattle is either injured or no longer up to it.

how do you figure 30 seconds more and we wouldve lost?, we were the ones attacking the most in the last 5 minutes mate, we kicked the last goal, we had more inside 50s in the last 5 minutes as well, as i recall, the ball was on near centre wing when the siren went.

some pies fans may have wanted brown shot, not me though, he was possibly in our top 3 players for the 09 finals series.

 

[The Finger]

AA player medhurst injured for the season, ended his career.

AA player leon davis played injured all season.

AA player alan didak played injured for the latter part of the year, torn peck, his imput was way down after that.

AA player luke ball missed a few games here and there.

AA player nick maxwell ditto.

our best small fwd brad dick couldnt get on the park.

our no1 FB presty missed many games throughout the season including the finals.

many more missed multiple games as well, but, what ever helps you sleep at night mate.

Riewoldt argubly best player in the AFL misses 13 games

Gram Equal BOG in last years GF misses 8 games and is never close to 100%

Kosi Key Forward misses four games plus carries injured ankle into finals plus broken sternum into GF

Geary plays most of the season injured round 19 plays no finals.

Dal Santo Dual AA misses games during H&A with back injury re injures in PF

Fisher AA Injured halftime GF2

Gram injured in PF

Steven best small forward BOG v Geelong gets OP no finals

Armitage does medial ligament twice no finals

King AA ruckmen out for most of season

Raph Clarke St Kildas 2nd best finals player last year no finals.

Gardiner Saints number 1 RUCK injured GF 1

Dawson has illness over summer losess 6kg struggles for fitness all season

I dont barrack for StKilda but thats a fair list of injuries.

 

[al ain pie]

20 seconds more in GF1 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

maybe you can explain your theory and also tell me where the ball was when the siren went

 

[Selggad]

AA player medhurst injured for the season, ended his career.

AA player leon davis played injured all season.

AA player alan didak played injured for the latter part of the year, torn peck, his imput was way down after that.

AA player luke ball missed a few games here and there.

AA player nick maxwell ditto.

our best small fwd brad dick couldnt get on the park.

our no1 FB presty missed many games throughout the season including the finals.

many more missed multiple games as well, but, what ever helps you sleep at night mate.

It's worth mentioning that Medhurst's form was ordinary and couldn't break into the side and Leon's selection in the AA team is widely considered one of the worst inclusions ever, plus he is proven big game squib over many seasons. He was dropped for GF 2 after achieving nothing in GF 1.

Comparing injuries is a bit like a reverse dick measuring contest and Collingwoods injuries were not too bad. Better to go with the poster who argued your medical team did a good job of limiting the extent of injuries and providing good rehab.

 

[al ain pie]

I dont barrack for StKilda.

 

[the distributer]

Riewoldt argubly best player in the AFL misses 13 games he was right come finals

Gram Equal BOG in last years GF misses 8 games and is never close to 100% again, he was right come finals

Kosi Key Forward misses four games plus carries injured ankle into finals plus broken sternum into GF and this hurt the saints how? spud!!!!

Geary plays most of the season injured round 19 plays no finals. who?

Dal Santo Dual AA misses games during H&A with back injury re injures in PF pendlebury lost 5KGs in the leadup to GF1 with a mystery illness

Fisher AA Injured halftime GF2 ben reid broke his bloody leg!!! before HT

Gram injured in PF lots of players played injured mate.

Steven best small forward BOG v Geelong gets OP no finals epic lolz

Armitage does medial ligament twice no finals again, and this hurt the saints how?

King AA ruckmen out for most of season so was fraser, both spuds, past it.

Raph Clarke St Kildas 2nd best finals player last year no finals. lol

Gardiner Saints number 1 RUCK injured GF 1 granted

Dawson has illness over summer losess 6kg struggles for fitness all season
lol
I dont barrack for StKilda but thats a fair list of injuries.

see above

 

[TownleyTime]

Leon's selection in the AA team is widely considered one of the worst inclusions ever

Only b/c he played for Collingwood. Leon deserved his AA selection.

His forward pressure went unappreciated this year, just like Medhurst at the point he fell out of favour. They were both Number 1 & 2 for tackles inside Forward 50, which was a main component of our gameplan.

 

[shanman]

IMO comparisons can be made between Hawkes 08 and Pies 2010. Young sides given the edge with a unique gameplan.

Hawkes had too many holes to follow up in 09 & 10. This made them different to the Cats who had the squad to catch on and come back in 09 when the tactical advantage was leveled.

Admitedly I could not be more biased if I tried. IMO Collingwood is a vastly superior organisation to Hawthorn that saw potential holes in our promising young list and filled them with Taz and Krakuer. Foot on throat time for Collingwood, you can't beat severe bad luck - but expect the misery to continue - haters. We'll lord it over the comp till the inevitable GFC dynasty arrives. Take it to the bank.

 

[The Finger]

see above

Yes your right it was clear to everyone that Dal Santo and Gram were both fit in the GF. Also anyone outside of Riewoldt or Goddard cannot be considered decent footballers.

 

[The Finger]

IMO comparisons can be made between Hawkes 08 and Pies 2010. Young sides given the edge with a unique gameplan.

Hawkes had too many holes to follow up in 09 & 10. This made them different to the Cats who had the squad to catch on and come back in 09 when the tactical advantage was leveled.

Admitedly I could not be more biased if I tried. IMO Collingwood is a vastly superior organisation to Hawthorn that saw potential holes in our promising young list and filled them with Taz and Krakuer. Foot on throat time for Collingwood, you can't beat severe bad luck - but expect the misery to continue - haters. We'll lord it over the comp till the inevitable GFC dynasty arrives. Take it to the bank.

Just a question how is Krakour now regarded as a fantastic player? 27 delisted from Richmond and just got out of the pen.