Expansion Why don't Sydney NRL fans go to games?

[gostk86]

A few points as a Sydneysider:

1. League use to be about tribalism. Although crowds were never as good as AFL, tribalism has disappeared.

2. League retains support in the blue collared working class in Sydney - but many middle class families have moved away from the game.

3. Boofhead mentality and image.

4. Sydney League are not as committed sporting fans as AFL or soccer. Although a small hard core group exist, the rest are casula spectators. If their team loses, you have a laugh and get on with it. (this also explains the lack of atmpshere at many NSW League matches). Infact a survey (I think by the ABS???) found that while 30% of AFL and Soccer fans attended over 8 or more games in a season, only 14% of League fans did the same.

5. Shift of many supporters in Sydney to AFL and Soccer.

6. Just a couple weeks back, Friday night Rugby League was beaten by the ABC in ratings.

7. Massive media coverage and promotion giving relatively minimal "bang for your buck". Massive week long promotion for games reglarly give crowds of only 15,000 or less.

8. Inflated crowd figures and freebies. Without these the reality of league is even worse. Clubs like the Roosters regularly inflate crowd figures to make it look that more people attended then actually did. What is more, businesses and schools get given thousands of free tickets. My wifes work (who sponsors the League) get 100 free tickets a week. My Brother-in-law who is a teacher says hios chool gets 100's of free ticktes as well.

9. Bad mangement. The AFL is a professional organisation that commands top dollar from tv rights. The Rugby League commands less then half that.

10. As a Sydneysider growing up in a league area,with little exposure to AFL, I can honestly say AFL is a better package and better game.

11. Finally consider this. The NRL gets $55 million a year in tv rights plus massive media coverage. IT averages about 16,500 people a game. The Soccer A-league gets only $13 million a year and only a fraction of the media promotion and drew and average of 15,500 people (or so). Eventually corporate Australia will realise this.

Your right on many points there - 6. though it was the city/country game which was beaten and nobody cares about that anymore.
league fans dont want to goto anz stadium, the game is stuck in suburban days.

Now onto crowds........ Sydney has 9 teams, Sydney is 25% foriegn born and where are these people from??? China, Vietnam, Middle East. Living in Sydney you would know this.... and do you think they know what AFL is???

A-league 1 team per city, sydney fc averages 17 000, that TBH isnt that good for a 1 team town. Swans average about 27 000 and games at ANZ stadium are an event- people arent there for AFL. 99% of the crowd is wearing red as well, so they are SYDNEY supporters not AFL supporters.

NOW im not trying to put down AFL or SOCCER but I am sick that these codes always comes after league and give it a bad name at every chance.

League has been around 100 years, its never been the number 1 sport in Sydney, Rugby Union has. Due to support from public, government, rugby is only sport played in 95% of sydney private schools, League crowds in the 1960's were less than what they are now.

SUPER LEAGUE - this basically destroyed the game in 1995-97. League lost alot of fans during this time. The french governement basically banned the game in france until thr 1930's, southern england didn recognise the sport until the 1920's and it still doesnt get mich funding from england government. The game was scrapped in south africa because it promoted black people to play the game.

League will be dead the day nobody turns upto origin and the GF, and then I and all league supporters in Australia will admit that.

 

[Football_Fan]

Your right on many points there - 6. though it was the city/country game which was beaten and nobody cares about that anymore.
league fans dont want to goto anz stadium, the game is stuck in suburban days.

Now onto crowds........ Sydney has 9 teams, Sydney is 25% foriegn born and where are these people from??? China, Vietnam, Middle East. Living in Sydney you would know this.... and do you think they know what AFL is???

A-league 1 team per city, sydney fc averages 17 000, that TBH isnt that good for a 1 team town. Swans average about 27 000 and games at ANZ stadium are an event- people arent there for AFL. 99% of the crowd is wearing red as well, so they are SYDNEY supporters not AFL supporters.

NOW im not trying to put down AFL or SOCCER but I am sick that these codes always comes after league and give it a bad name at every chance.

League has been around 100 years, its never been the number 1 sport in Sydney, Rugby Union has. Due to support from public, government, rugby is only sport played in 95% of sydney private schools, League crowds in the 1960's were less than what they are now.

SUPER LEAGUE - this basically destroyed the game in 1995-97. League lost alot of fans during this time. The french governement basically banned the game in france until thr 1930's, southern england didn recognise the sport until the 1920's and it still doesnt get mich funding from england government. The game was scrapped in south africa because it promoted black people to play the game.

League will be dead the day nobody turns upto origin and the GF, and then I and all league supporters in Australia will admit that.

Some good points mate. Especially regards Super League. Before that, I remember Sydeny use to stop for State of Origin, GF day - people even cared about City vs Country. I remember schools use to have fireworks to celebrate SOO.

Now this is well and truly gone. It is sad in many respects.

You are right about comments regards AFL and Soccer. Although League has lost fans to them, they still have quite some way to go before we can say the masses follow them.

 

[gostk86]

Some good points mate. Especially regards Super League. Before that, I remember Sydeny use to stop for State of Origin, GF day - people even cared about City vs Country. I remember schools use to have fireworks to celebrate SOO.

Now this is well and truly gone. It is sad in many respects.

You are right about comments regards AFL and Soccer. Although League has lost fans to them, they still have quite some way to go before we can say the masses follow them.

Cheers, Im also a general sports follower, when i lived in sydney i went to league, a couple afl games and went to a sydney fc game. All these sports have good followings. Talking to people as well they were always that sports people, they werent from one or the other.

Sydney has room I think a 2nd afl team and another soccer team. The current board of the NRL doesnt care about fans they dont listen, Ive tried to organise a meeting with david gallop, but they dont care.

League needs a new direction, nrl is also facing more quality players leaving with ESL teams and cashup european rugby teams over here now.

 

[Football_Fan]

Sydney has room I think a 2nd afl team and another soccer team. The current board of the NRL doesnt care about fans they dont listen, Ive tried to organise a meeting with david gallop, but they dont care.

Yep a second AFL and Soccer team seem bout right. Especially given the geography and socio-economic divide in Sydney between east and west.

To go to the SCG or SFS from the west can take from 1 - 1.5 hours, so many families (with kids that have school the next day or work) are hesitent to go.

Your right about NRL management. In a way it seems they have their head in the sand over many issues. A real contrast to how the AFL is run.

 

[gostk86]

Yep a second AFL and Soccer team seem bout right. Especially given the geography and socio-economic divide in Sydney between east and west.

To go to the SCG or SFS from the west can take from 1 - 1.5 hours, so many families (with kids that have school the next day or work) are hesitent to go.

Your right about NRL management. In a way it seems they have their head in the sand over many issues. A real contrast to how the AFL is run.

And you know what it is? The NRL doesnt believe in its brand. The 80's yes i agree thuggery was a big part of the game and i believe the southern media still broadcast this, and people still remember and say thats league still is.

Rugby League has a big advantage over the AFL, in that its a international game, I am very interested to see how the WC rates in areas outside of NSW and QLD with crowds.

IF NRL had demetriou the game would be so much better. State of Origin is the main selling of rugby league, and its still not shown live across the country, which is pathetic.

TBH I think AFL will do well in west sydney, up here on goldie im not too sure, i dont know how soccer thinks it will survive there isnt alot of support for the game, but i guess they just want to be here.

Rugby League image is getting better but a player like Willie Mason - I wish he would goto england or play union he is a blight on the game.

ANZ stadium is a crap stadium for league, its a afl perfect ground, nrl needs a 35 000 seater in a ideal location in the west for teams like dogs and tigers, souths back to sfs, and dragons to kogarah and the gong full time. Parra to play all games at parra stadium.

Really for a national comp, the game in 1988 should of put all current sydney teams into a 2nd divisions and made 4 new sydney teams. TBh i think thats on the cards ........... or within 20 years league and union will merge again.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... Rugby League has a big advantage over the AFL, in that its a international game ...

I don't see any advantage in it e.g. I now far prefer domestic cricket to the now far too overloaded and over hyped, but under performing international cricket stage. Interesting to now see the sudden massive interest (and $$$) in a purely domestic cricket competition (IPL), despite it having no history or traditions whatsoever.

If I followed a football code based purely on its international appeal/opportunities/ representation etc., then I would follow soccer. If I hated soccer (which BTW I don't in reality), then the alternative would be rugby union, though in international terms its a distant second to the globalised game - but still a long way ahead of rugby league, which would only be an afterthought.

Americans follow good strong domestic comps - NFL, NBA, Baseball, and care very little about any international competition (or the lack thereof), and even with basketball they have their own rules, different from the international rules. Canada is the same with ice hockey, except they also have clubs based in the US. For them, the club competition is the thing, same for Canadian Football. Not much cultural cringe evident in those countries.

Likewise, for Australians that feel secure in forging our own cultural identity, the lack of international competition in Australian Football is no problem at all - in fact it has advantages, like full control of our own game. It is the very strong domestic competition that rules supreme, as it should.

However, for those insecure types with the cultural cringe disease, that urges them to imitate anything 'big' provided its imported from overseas (like throwing flares etc.), and not uniquely a part of our own culture, then of course, the lack of our game "being from overseas", and the consequent lack of international competition would be problem.

... State of Origin is the main selling of rugby league, and its still not shown live across the country, which is pathetic.
...

But it only involves NSW and Qld, and excludes all the other states, so the care factor (for what is a very small sport outside its heartland) is very limited. There is thus little demand for it to be shown live outside the 2 states that actually participate in it. And if the NRL ever does get a player from Victoria or SA etc, and if he turns out to be an absolute gun, who would he represent?

 

[genghiskhan]

I don't see any advantage in it e.g. I now far prefer domestic cricket to the now far too overloaded and over hyped, but under performing international cricket stage. Interesting to now see the sudden massive interest (and $$$) in a purely domestic cricket competition (IPL), despite it having no history or traditions whatsoever.

If I followed a football code based purely on its international appeal/opportunities/ representation etc., then I would follow soccer. If I hated soccer (which BTW I don't in reality), then the alternative would be rugby union, though in international terms its a distant second to the globalised game - but still a long way ahead of rugby league, which would only be an afterthought.

Americans follow good strong domestic comps - NFL, NBA, Baseball, and care very little about any international competition (or the lack thereof), and even with basketball they have their own rules, different from the international rules. Canada is the same with ice hockey, except they also have clubs based in the US. For them, the club competition is the thing, same for Canadian Football. Not much cultural cringe evident in those countries.

Likewise, for Australians that feel secure in forging our own cultural identity, the lack of international competition in Australian Football is no problem at all - in fact it has advantages, like full control of our own game. It is the very strong domestic competition that rules supreme, as it should.

However, for those insecure types with the cultural cringe disease, that urges them to imitate anything 'big' provided its imported from overseas (like throwing flares etc.), and not uniquely a part of our own culture, then of course, the lack of our game "being from overseas", and the consequent lack of international competition would be problem.


But it only involves NSW and Qld, and excludes all the other states, so the care factor (for what is a very small sport outside its heartland) is very limited. There is thus little demand for it to be shown live outside the 2 states that actually participate in it. And if the NRL ever does get a player from Victoria or SA etc, and if he turns out to be an absolute gun, who would he represent?

I'd agree with you there. The most important thing is the club. You just need to compare cricket to Australian rules for that. Cricket is much more global and arguably, more popular nationally, but AFL turns over much more revenue, gets more people at games, etc etc and has more passionate followers.

 

[cos789]

The most important thing is the club.

Watching the Dreamteam game I couldn't but help think
that if this Australia playing another competitive country
the game would be an immediate sellout and the fans
would be going ape .

.

 

[littleduck]

Watching the Dreamteam game I couldn't but help think
that if this Australia playing another competitive country
the game would be an immediate sellout and the fans
would be going ape .

.

Watching (some of) the Dreamteam game I couldn't but help think that club football is where the passion will always lie and anything else is an unemotional "exhibition game".

 

[littleduck]

If I followed a football code based purely on its international appeal/opportunities/ representation etc., then I would follow soccer. If I hated soccer (which BTW I don't in reality), then the alternative would be rugby union, though in international terms its a distant second to the globalised game - but still a long way ahead of rugby league, which would only be an afterthought.

Millions support the Wallabies and Socceroos and Kangaroos purely because of their international appeal and representative nature. People support the big event style games, even if it is not your preferred code. Ratings and interest and crowds continually support this view.

Likewise, for Australians that feel secure in forging our own cultural identity, the lack of international competition in Australian Football is no problem at all - in fact it has advantages, like full control of our own game. It is the very strong domestic competition that rules supreme, as it should.

Overlooking your opening until the first comma, I agree with that.

However, for those insecure types with the cultural cringe disease, that urges them to imitate anything 'big' provided its imported from overseas (like throwing flares etc.), and not uniquely a part of our own culture, then of course, the lack of our game "being from overseas", and the consequent lack of international competition would be problem.

Lack of international appeal in AFL has zero influence as to whether the unconverted will start watching or ignore AFL. On the other hand, huge domestic support in southern and western states has a big influence as to whether the unconverted will start to watch AFL now that they have their own local team to support.

And your suggestion that sports originating from overseas nations cannot become uniquelt part of our own culture here in Australia is ludicrous and cannot be supported by the evidence which proves the contrary.

But it only involves NSW and Qld, and excludes all the other states, so the care factor (for what is a very small sport outside its heartland) is very limited. There is thus little demand for it to be shown live outside the 2 states that actually participate in it.

Bollocks.

State of Origin is our nations most popular annual sporting series and its event status attracts widespread interest nationally and overseas.

Similarly, the AFL Grand Final is also one of our nations most popular annual football events and its event status attract widespread national interest regardless of the origin of participating teams.

And if the NRL ever does get a player from Victoria or SA etc, and if he turns out to be an absolute gun, who would he represent?

Australia.

 

[Rob]

A-league 1 team per city, sydney fc averages 17 000, that TBH isnt that good for a 1 team town. Swans average about 27 000 and games at ANZ stadium are an event- people arent there for AFL. 99% of the crowd is wearing red as well, so they are SYDNEY supporters not AFL supporters.

Gee, 99% of people attending a Swans game are wearing red, so the whole city must be Swans supporters only. That's your ____ing logic?

What the hell should they be wearing if they were true football supporters, a bloody Brisbane jumper?

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

Millions support the Wallabies and Socceroos and Kangaroos purely because of their international appeal and representative nature. People support the big event style games, even if it is not your preferred code. Ratings and interest and crowds continually support this view.

Overlooking your opening until the first comma, I agree with that.

Lack of international appeal in AFL has zero influence as to whether the unconverted will start watching or ignore AFL. On the other hand, huge domestic support in southern and western states has a big influence as to whether the unconverted will start to watch AFL now that they have their own local team to support.

And your suggestion that sports originating from overseas nations cannot become uniquelt part of our own culture here in Australia is ludicrous and cannot be supported by the evidence which proves the contrary.

Bollocks.

State of Origin is our nations most popular annual sporting series and its event status attracts widespread interest nationally and overseas.

Similarly, the AFL Grand Final is also one of our nations most popular annual football events and its event status attract widespread national interest regardless of the origin of participating teams.

Australia.

Absolute rubbish! No-one in WA remotely cares about it and it hasn't any history in it to do so. As for OS, that's laughable.

 

[Aucklander]

No-one?

LoL

Where's, cos?

 

[cos789]

No-one?

Where's, cos?

I'm here .

.

 

[littleduck]

Absolute rubbish! No-one in WA remotely cares about it and it hasn't any history in it to do so. As for OS, that's laughable.

Seriously, since when does WA matter?

And you could apply this same localised rubbish argument to AFL as well, for example nobody in North Queensland remotely cares about AFL.

 

[gostk86]

Gee, 99% of people attending a Swans game are wearing red, so the whole city must be Swans supporters only. That's your ____ing logic?

What the hell should they be wearing if they were true football supporters, a bloody Brisbane jumper?

Swans jumpers genious

 

[Rob]

Swans jumpers genious

No shit, it's a Swans game!

 

[Father Jack]

Seriously, since when does WA matter?

And you could apply this same localised rubbish argument to AFL as well, for example nobody in North Queensland remotely cares about AFL.

Add SA, Tas and Vic in there as well as not caring about RL SoO.

 

[littleduck]

Add SA, Tas and Vic in there as well as not caring about RL SoO.

You could apply your narrow argument to the AFL Grand Final as well and say supporters outside of the participating teams just don't care..... or you can move your position closer to reality and admit that big event style games do exist in both codes and they inevitably attract a wider audience.

 

[acker]

Seriously, since when does WA matter?

And you could apply this same localised rubbish argument to AFL as well, for example nobody in North Queensland remotely cares about AFL.

You obviously dont get up to Cairns much

That big joint on the left hand side of the main road next to the large shopping centre is called Cazaly's Aussie Rules club.

One of our Bulldogs players Jarrod Harbrow comes from Cairns

How many NRL players come from Australian places outside NSW and Qld ?

 

[erpel9999]

You obviously dont get up to Cairns much

That big joint on the left hand side of the main road next to the large shopping centre is called Cazaly's Aussie Rules club.

One of our Bulldogs players Jarrod Harbrow comes from Cairns

How many NRL players come from Australian places outside NSW and Qld ?

You obviously don't get outside the tourist mecca of cairns much

cairns is full of expats and tourists. for a better view try Townsville, a city of twice the size and 1 tenth the interest in afl of cairns.

cairns locals are making the 4 hour drive every 2nd week to watch the Cowboys

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Seriously, since when does WA matter?

And you could apply this same localised rubbish argument to AFL as well, for example nobody in North Queensland remotely cares about AFL.

]
Cairns has quite a strong AFL league.

 

[littleduck]

]
Cairns has quite a strong AFL league.

Its still RL heartland.

 

[cos789]

Its still RL heartland.

Can't be if it's an AFL stronghold .

 

[Hodgepodge]

Seriously, since when does WA matter?

And you could apply this same localised rubbish argument to AFL as well, for example nobody in North Queensland remotely cares about AFL.

Nobody in VIC/SA/WA/NT/TAS/southNSW cares about RL then.