Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why are we only focusing on immigration?

'We' (as in society by and large) aren't though.

Media and social media (read big footy) would have you believe that focus though.

There's many examples of societal members advocating for and trying to focus all of our societal problems.

It isn't talked about much and that's why on the surface it looks like 'only focusing on immigration is the problem'.

 

[Chief]

people whose culture does not align with Australia.

a. Who defines that culture?
b. What happens if a government passes laws to kick out people who are already here, based on these arbitrary culture parameters?

 

[peetoo]

I'm going to fairly assume Flowers, you mean two wrongs don't make a right? If so fair enough.

To the bolded though, why do cultures have to align? Why is this so important? I'll rebut why it isn't the must after you answer.

Agreed. And those on the right seem to have a very narrow ocker model that very few of us are attracted by

Progressives are Australians too

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There are undoubtedly good people from those cultures. I'm saying it's not worth the risk of finding the good eggs from the bad.

So which cultures does this apply to, besides the ones you've mentioned? Any culture that is materially not as well off as Australia?

It's because culture = living standards. The more social cohesion a society has the higher its living standards.

Except many countries improve their living standards over time. China has massively improved its living standards in the past few decades, are you saying their culture also improved in proportion to that?

Oh, and while we're here, can you please clarify,

What do you mean by "disrupting Australian society"?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agreed. And those on the right seem to have a very narrow ocker model that very few of us are attracted by

Progressives are Australians too

Absolutely, so are right wingers who have unwarranted fear of immigration.

That's the beauty of our societal model, it is tolerant and inclusive of all. Even if we disagree with others, we accept them and allow them freedom to do what they want.

The only intolerance is when one or a group try to impede on others, our law and order protects us from those that wish to impede.

As for islammic immigration, it doesn't impede, and the overwhelming majority of muslims come here because they wish to live in free liberalism. Even to the point of adopting 'strayan culture', like picking a footy team for example, wanting to 'join in'.

Not to infiltrate, take over and change our way of life which is portrayed as by some, some in here as well.

 

[JackOutback]

a. Who defines that culture?
b. What happens if a government passes laws to kick out people who are already here, based on these arbitrary culture parameters?

 

[10571z]

a. Who defines that culture?
b. What happens if a government passes laws to kick out people who are already here, based on these arbitrary culture parameters?

Certaintly not suggesting to deport people. But you dont want to become the next Sweden

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/

 

[Chief]

Certaintly not suggesting to deport people. But you dont want to become the next Sweden

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/

I didn't say you were suggesting it, I asked FBI a hypothetical question.

 

[Chief]

The article is from over 2 1/2 years ago.

"Many Swedes were shocked earlier this month after violent riots left more than 100 police injured. The violence erupted after a Swedish-Danish politician burned the Quran at a rally and sought to hold more in several immigrant-dominated neighborhoods."

So a far-right immigrant held rallies and burned the holy book of another group of immigrants and wanted to do it again?

And people were shocked at the result?

 

[CM86]

Certaintly not suggesting to deport people. But you dont want to become the next Sweden

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/

Do you want us to become the next UK?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

From 30 July to 5 August 2024, far-right, anti-immigration protests and riots occurred in England and Northern Ireland, within the United Kingdom.​

​

The riots were fuelled by false claims circulated by far-right groups that the perpetrator of the attack was a Muslim and an asylum seeker, in addition to broader Islamophobic, racist, and anti-immigrant sentiments that had grown leading up to the protests.​

The disorder included racist attacks, arson, and looting and was the largest incident of social unrest in England since 2011.​

I condemn the actions of extremists in Sweden in 2022, regardless of it being a reaction to the actions of Danish-Swedish far-right extremist Rasmus Paludan.



So I condemn the riots in Sweden in 2022.
I also condemn the riots in the UK in 2024.

Why is it that the 'anti-immigration' only condemn the riots in Sweden 2022. But support the riots in the UK in 2024?
Sweden 2022 = bad and something needs to be done.
UK 2024 = Justified and reasonable.
To me, it says that they don't care about the victims, violence, actions or intent... They only care about the perpetrators.

 

[CM86]

I didn't say you were suggesting it, I asked FBI a hypothetical question.

He doesn't seem to be responding to the posts he quotes.
It's just an excuse to post unrelated anti-Immigration articles that he frames deliberately. He doesn't discuss them or engage further with the article. He just spreads it.
Like the James Morrow reply he gave me. No engagement, just another headline to help confirmation bias.

 

[CM86]

The article is from over 2 1/2 years ago.

"Many Swedes were shocked earlier this month after violent riots left more than 100 police injured. The violence erupted after a Swedish-Danish politician burned the Quran at a rally and sought to hold more in several immigrant-dominated neighborhoods."

So a far-right immigrant held rallies and burned the holy book of another group of immigrants and wanted to do it again?

And people were shocked at the result?

From earlier in this thread.

Why Quran Burning Is Making Sweden and Denmark So Anxious

Sweden is reportedly raising its terror threat level in response to the incidents.

time.com

The recent controversy around Quran-burning emerged after Rasmus Paludan, a Danish-Swedish far-right extremist, destroyed a copy outside Turkey’s embassy in Stockholm in January, and then Turkey’s embassy in Copenhagen later that month.​

​

Others soon followed in Paludan’s footsteps, including Momika, an Iraqi refugee who was previously linked to extremist Christian militias while living in Iraq. Since June, Momika has on several occasions obtained permits for Quran-burning protests and carried them out in Stockholm.​

​

In July, two members of the ultranationalist group Danske Patrioter, or Danish Patriots, live-streamed their own Quran-burning in front of the Iraqi embassy in Copenhagen. Earlier this month, members of the group also burned copies of the Quran and chanted anti-Islam slogans outside the embassies of Turkey, Algeria, Pakistan, Iran, and Indonesia.​

Rasmus Paludan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great replacement theory

Rasmus Paludan has warned several times about the Great Replacement.​

A theory that European populations are gradually being replaced by Muslim immigrants and their descendants.​

Paludan stated that the ethnic Danish population is approaching becoming a minority due to a higher birth rate among Muslims in Denmark, and Paludan has stated on several occasions that it will be a reality within a few decades.​

​

According to religion and demography researchers, there is no indication of such a development.​

 

[10571z]

From earlier in this thread.

So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome.

 

[sr36]

Cleanliness, petty crime, mob justice, gender based violence and control, sexual restrictions, religious justice, education standards etc etc, the differences are really endless.

Considering you want immigration to be a part of addressing these concerns you have about Australia, I assume you're in favour of a large influx of targeted immigration from the Australian cultural groups that surpass white Australia in these matters?

 

[CM86]

So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome.

Nope.
And that's not what the article you linked to said either.

It's just what you want to imply with the way you present that kind of information.

Why don't you engage with the responses to your post?
If you linked the article because it interests you, or means something, why do you avoid any engagement with it?

To me, it seems you're just trying to push misinformation to take advantage of people's fear.
And that you know your framing isn't true.

 

[Chief]

So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome.

I suppose if you added any sort of context to this post, it might be seen as a good faith comment.

 

[10571z]

Nope.
And that's not what the article you linked to said either.

It's just what you want to imply with the way you present that kind of information.

Why don't you engage with the responses to your post?
If you linked the article because it interests you, or means something, why do you avoid any engagement with it?

To me, it seems you're just trying to push misinformation to take advantage of people's fear.
And that you know your framing isn't true.

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the article you posted said.

I’m not avoiding engagement with it. I’m clearly here posting

 

[sr36]

Do you want us to become the next UK?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

From 30 July to 5 August 2024, far-right, anti-immigration protests and riots occurred in England and Northern Ireland, within the United Kingdom.​

​

The riots were fuelled by false claims circulated by far-right groups that the perpetrator of the attack was a Muslim and an asylum seeker, in addition to broader Islamophobic, racist, and anti-immigrant sentiments that had grown leading up to the protests.​

The disorder included racist attacks, arson, and looting and was the largest incident of social unrest in England since 2011.​

I condemn the actions of extremists in Sweden in 2022, regardless of it being a reaction to the actions of Danish-Swedish far-right extremist Rasmus Paludan.



So I condemn the riots in Sweden in 2022.
I also condemn the riots in the UK in 2024.

Why is it that the 'anti-immigration' only condemn the riots in Sweden 2022. But support the riots in the UK in 2024?
Sweden 2022 = bad and something needs to be done.
UK 2024 = Justified and reasonable.
To me, it says that they don't care about the victims, violence, actions or intent... They only care about the perpetrators.

Yeah the issue isn't Muslim vs Non-Muslim. It's the conservative extremists in both groupings. The issue is those pushing the view that either Islam is innately bad or not being Islamic is innately bad. They think the same - extreme social conservatives who want to shape a society of replicants - they're like soccer hooligans that think they're vastly different to each other because they barrack for different teams.

 

[CM86]

So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome.

"So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome."​

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the article you posted said.

"So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome."​

Screenshot it.
Show where it says 'exactly' that in any of the articles.

I’m not avoiding engagement with it. I’m clearly here posting

There are multiple replies to your post where you deliberately misframed the article.

You haven't engaged with any of them.





You did the same thing the day before.




You don't appear to have any interest in actually engaging with the content of the article.
You just seem to use snippets or headlines as a tool to promote misinformation, leading to fear and anger.

 

[sr36]

Have you stocked up on the cheap plastic flags for Australia Day?

Or are you a different type of Australian?

It's a tough time to be a real Australian. The cheap Australian flags are made in Bangladesh, so buying them is supporting Islam. What do you do?

 

[10571z]

"So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome."​

"So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome."​

Screenshot it.
Show where it says 'exactly' that in any of the articles.


There are multiple replies to your post where you deliberately misframed the article.

You haven't engaged with any of them.

View attachment 2198373



You did the same thing the day before.
View attachment 2198374



You don't appear to have any interest in actually engaging with the content of the article.
You just seem to use snippets or headlines as a tool to promote misinformation, leading to fear and anger.

“
The terror threat level will rise from three to four on a five-point scale, which implies a "high" threat.


The decision comes just days after two men at the heart of a months-long debate over Quran burning set the Islamic holy book aflame on Monday outside Stockholm's Royal Palace.

Salwan Momika, 37, and Salwan Najem, 48, burned a copy of the Quran as counter-protesters called for them to “extinguish their hate.” Sweden and its Nordic peer Denmark have been grappling with how to address what some see as an act of protected free speech and others a symbol of religious hatred and xenophobia”

 

[CM86]

So everytime someone burns a book the Terror threat rises for the average citizen? Sounds awesome.

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the article you posted said.

Even what you've quoted, shows the opposite of your claim.

“
The terror threat level will rise from three to four on a five-point scale, which implies a "high" threat.


The decision comes just days after two men at the heart of a months-long debate over Quran burning set the Islamic holy book aflame on Monday outside Stockholm's Royal Palace.

Salwan Momika, 37, and Salwan Najem, 48, burned a copy of the Quran as counter-protesters called for them to “extinguish their hate.” Sweden and its Nordic peer Denmark have been grappling with how to address what some see as an act of protected free speech and others a symbol of religious hatred and xenophobia”

So it actually says the opposite of your claim...

The article points out that it is a reaction to months of attacks from people like Rasmus Paludan.






https://time.com/6303348/quran-burning-sweden-denmark/

 

[sr36]

“
The terror threat level will rise from three to four on a five-point scale, which implies a "high" threat.


The decision comes just days after two men at the heart of a months-long debate over Quran burning set the Islamic holy book aflame on Monday outside Stockholm's Royal Palace.

Salwan Momika, 37, and Salwan Najem, 48, burned a copy of the Quran as counter-protesters called for them to “extinguish their hate.” Sweden and its Nordic peer Denmark have been grappling with how to address what some see as an act of protected free speech and others a symbol of religious hatred and xenophobia”

Sounds like the death threats, protests, vandalism and global furore in response to Piss Christ, which whilst provocative, wasn't even a contemptuous statement the way Qur'an burning is.

 

[sr36]

Even what you've quoted, shows the opposite of your claim.

So it actually says the opposite of your claim...

The article points out that it is a reaction to months of attacks from people like Rasmus Paludan.

View attachment 2198397
View attachment 2198398

View attachment 2198399

https://time.com/6303348/quran-burning-sweden-denmark/

And it's saying that the increased threat is from foreign countries rather than domestic Muslim immigrants.

 

[10571z]

Even what you've quoted, shows the opposite of your claim.

So it actually says the opposite of your claim...

The article points out that it is a reaction to months of attacks from people like Rasmus Paludan.

View attachment 2198397
View attachment 2198398

View attachment 2198399

https://time.com/6303348/quran-burning-sweden-denmark/

Sorry a couple of books. Do you think terrorist attacks are a reasonable response for burning a book or drawing a cartoon?