Why is the AFL never going to be truly equal?

[Demonic Ascent]

I have a rule to suggest. What's happening at the lions is unacceptable in the long run. All of the clubs are happy and the fans are ok with stealing the lions players under the pretence of go home. In the NFL if a player leaves at the end of the draft two year contract, the acquiring team has to pay a large sum of money to the team losing the player. I would advocate that, as well draft equalisation measures in that a draft pick at least equal to the round the player was drafted in has to be paid. This would ensure that the interstate clubs don't suffer long term with no money for success and like the lions at the moment the other clubs trying to steal the players with a significant downgrade on the picks with no chance of picking up players of like ability.

I really feel sorry for the lions draft team. It must be very hard to try pick a players ability then try to get inside their head to make sure they won't walk out the door at the end of two years.

Yeah I was thinking about some kind of "transfer fee" as well but not sure how it would work. As AFL contracts are generally relatively small if it worked off a percentage it may not amount to much (say $50k per player?). Also it would favour the rich teams who could afford the transfer fees and mean it would be even more lop-sided than FA.

 

[frankc]

Bottom line is there are too many clubs.

With the rise of soccer & League/Union being dominant in NSW/QLD, 18 club dilutes the talent base too much.

This is the unfortunate truth. I believe 16 clubs is ideal; the AFL should have maintain this number when adding GCS and GWS.

 

[Pessimistic]

The thing about COLA is it has been there to make sydney more attractive

Buddy choosing sydney had a lot of factors other than money. Sydney is attractive now as the last two years have shown

Tippett and Franklin. Interestingly both let it be known they were going to gold coast or GWS before springing the sydney thing at the last minute. Coincidence ? Maybe

COLA will end, we all realise that dont we ?

 

[Colonial]

The thing about COLA is it has been there to make sydney more attractive

Buddy choosing sydney had a lot of factors other than money. Sydney is attractive now as the last two years have shown

Tippett and Franklin. Interestingly both let it be known they were going to gold coast or GWS before springing the sydney thing at the last minute. Coincidence ? Maybe

COLA will end, we all realise that dont we ?

Really? Never thought Tippett was heading to us.

 

[frankc]

What is the key issue impacting on having an equitable competition? I think if there is one thing that has the biggest impact it is the number of clubs. I feel this cascades across many of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

If the number of clubs was reduced to 14-16 I think this go a long way to enabling a more equitable competition all round. I think less is more.

 

[madmug]

What is the key issue impacting on having an equitable competition? I think if there is one thing that has the biggest impact it is the number of clubs. I feel this cascades across many of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

If the number of clubs was reduced to 14-16 I think this go a long way to enabling a more equitable competition all round. I think less is more.

Ok which two Victorian clubs get axed?

 

[telsor]

Ok which two Victorian clubs get axed?

WCE & Freo...They keep bitching about how unfair the travel is, and there is no realistic way we can make that 'fair', so to make an equal comp, we need to ditch them.

 

[madmug]

WCE & Freo...They keep bitching about how unfair the travel is, and there is no realistic way we can make that 'fair', so to make an equal comp, we need to ditch them.

Yeh, Makes sense, get rid of WA, so lose 12% of our AFL clubs & thus lose 20% of WA born players in the competition
We can all see how that help.

 

[greennick]

I have a rule to suggest. What's happening at the lions is unacceptable in the long run. All of the clubs are happy and the fans are ok with stealing the lions players under the pretence of go home. In the NFL if a player leaves at the end of the draft two year contract, the acquiring team has to pay a large sum of money to the team losing the player. I would advocate that, as well draft equalisation measures in that a draft pick at least equal to the round the player was drafted in has to be paid. This would ensure that the interstate clubs don't suffer long term with no money for success and like the lions at the moment the other clubs trying to steal the players with a significant downgrade on the picks with no chance of picking up players of like ability.

I really feel sorry for the lions draft team. It must be very hard to try pick a players ability then try to get inside their head to make sure they won't walk out the door at the end of two years.

This isn't true at all. In the NFL rookies are given 3-5 year contracts, depending on where they are drafted (earlier rounds are longer contacts). They become restricted free agents after just 4 years. If they want to be traded before this time, they can try to, but most just wait till their contact is over and then they're free agents.

You can not pay transfer fees. Otherwise the rich clubs just buy all the players and the poorer clubs just become feeder clubs with no chance of real success.

Maybe you're thinking of baseball?

 

[telsor]

Yeh, Makes sense, get rid of WA, so lose 12% of our AFL clubs & thus lose 20% of WA born players in the competition
We can all see how that help.

If travel is a cause of inequality as mentioned on numerous occasions, how else do we reduce the problem?

 

[Kwality]

If travel is a cause of inequality as mentioned on numerous occasions, how else do we reduce the problem?

Share it?

 

[telsor]

Share it?

And how do we do that without giving some teams a massive home ground advantage?

 

[madmug]

If travel is a cause of inequality as mentioned on numerous occasions, how else do we reduce the problem?

Two less Vic clubs then add a 3rd WA team which reduces their travel a bit & a Tassie team which increases Vic club travel a bit more.
Fixed, Easy

 

[telsor]

Two less Vic clubs then add a 3rd WA team which reduces their travel a bit & a Tassie team which increases Vic club travel a bit more.
Fixed, Easy

Adding a 3rd WA team wont affect their travel if you remove the automatic FIX in the fixture to get them to play each other twice every year. I'm sure you agree that playing the same teams twice every year without regard for anything else means there is inequality. Adding a 3rd WA team would just add to that.

 

[madmug]

Adding a 3rd WA team wont affect their travel if you remove the automatic FIX in the fixture to get them to play each other twice every year. I'm sure you agree that playing the same teams twice every year without regard for anything else means there is inequality. Adding a 3rd WA team would just add to that.

Umm????? Surely with an increase to 3 WA clubs they would play more games in WA & perhaps a travel game or two less each year????

 

[telsor]

Umm????? Surely with an increase to 3 WA clubs they would play more games in WA & perhaps a travel game or two less each year????

So the unfairness about having to travel so far, so often, would disappear for an extra half a game a year? (actually 10/17ths)

 

[madmug]

So the unfairness about having to travel so far, so often, would disappear for an extra half a game a year? (actually 10/17ths)

So we limit the travel bias by either 1)we get rid of all teams except those in Melbourne ( Geelong is too far away as well) to eliminate the travel bias, or 2) we reduce the number of Melbourne teams so we have more clubs traveling more often.
At least by having non Melbourne clubs in the comp we may infact increase the number ok kids playing the game across the country, especially in QLD/NSW. More kids playing means a better pool of talent to pick from, Yes?

 

[The_Wookie]

So we limit the travel bias by either 1)we get rid of all teams except those in Melbourne ( Geelong is too far away as well) to eliminate the travel bias, or 2) we reduce the number of Melbourne teams so we have more clubs traveling more often.
At least by having non Melbourne clubs in the comp we may infact increase the number ok kids playing the game across the country, especially in QLD/NSW. More kids playing means a better pool of talent to pick from, Yes?

That number is increasing steadily anyway. Number of Melbourne clubs has nothing to do with the number of kids playing the game in qld and nsw.

 

[telsor]

So we limit the travel bias by either 1)we get rid of all teams except those in Melbourne ( Geelong is too far away as well) to eliminate the travel bias, or 2) we reduce the number of Melbourne teams so we have more clubs traveling more often.
At least by having non Melbourne clubs in the comp we may infact increase the number ok kids playing the game across the country, especially in QLD/NSW. More kids playing means a better pool of talent to pick from, Yes?

Will that stop our friends in WA complaining?

My underlying point is that 'equality' seems to usually be an excuse to 'Kick a Vic', and for the most part the changes wont stop the problem, and in 5 years, the complaining will be as bad or worse than it was.

Whatever we do, most people will be unhappy. With that being the case, why not show some respect for history and the clubs/league that took the chance and built the AFL in the first place when everyone else was too insular and scared.

 

[madmug]

Will that stop our friends in WA complaining?

My underlying point is that 'equality' seems to usually be an excuse to 'Kick a Vic', and for the most part the changes wont stop the problem, and in 5 years, the complaining will be as bad or worse than it was.

Whatever we do, most people will be unhappy. With that being the case, why not show some respect for history and the clubs/league that took the chance and built the AFL in the first place when everyone else was too insular and scared.

Thats a nice Vic-centric view of the footy world.
I wonder if you would feel the same if you followed 100+ YO clubs in WA & SA who have been relegated in value by made up franchises, not to mention here in Tassie where the AFL effect has diminished & destroyed clubs to a marked degree. Such clubs never had the opportunity given to them to be a part of a national competition, whereas the whole VFL was.
So who showed respect for what?
It would have been interesting if they had picked say 2-3 SANFL & 2-3 WAFL clubs plus 8 VFL clubs at the start of the AFL. The shrill noise coming from the disenfranchised Melbourne clubs would peel paint!!!!!
Now thats more like equality.
The democratic right to be equally pissed off

 

[telsor]

Thats a nice Vic-centric view of the footy world.
I wonder if you would feel the same if you followed 100+ YO clubs in WA & SA who have been relegated in value by made up franchises, not to mention here in Tassie where the AFL effect has diminished & destroyed clubs to a marked degree. Such clubs never had the opportunity given to them to be a part of a national competition, whereas the whole VFL was.
So who showed respect for what?
It would have been interesting if they had picked say 2-3 SANFL & 2-3 WAFL clubs plus 8 VFL clubs at the start of the AFL. The shrill noise coming from the disenfranchised Melbourne clubs would peel paint!!!!!
Now thats more like equality.
The democratic right to be equally pissed off

It might have been interesting, but the WAFL & SANFL clubs were too gutless to risk being big fish in their own little ponds to try anything like that, weren't they?

The VFL clubs took the risks of expanding, and now that they've succeeded, you seem to want to take advantage and discard those who did the work.

If you want a non vic-centric AFL, you should have set up your own...


Edit to add...and Tassie was too divided to even have a unified state league, let alone participate in a national one.

 

[The_Wookie]

Thats a nice Vic-centric view of the footy world.
I wonder if you would feel the same if you followed 100+ YO clubs in WA & SA who have been relegated in value by made up franchises, not to mention here in Tassie where the AFL effect has diminished & destroyed clubs to a marked degree. Such clubs never had the opportunity given to them to be a part of a national competition, whereas the whole VFL was.
So who showed respect for what?
It would have been interesting if they had picked say 2-3 SANFL & 2-3 WAFL clubs plus 8 VFL clubs at the start of the AFL. The shrill noise coming from the disenfranchised Melbourne clubs would peel paint!!!!!
Now thats more like equality.
The democratic right to be equally pissed off

As opposed to the nice anti-vic sentiment you so frequently possess.

Its not the Victorians fault that SA and WA couldnt even stop their own teams from trying to join the VFL. Its not the Victorians fault that by virtue of greater population and economy they had more money to throw around. It IS the fault of the Victorians that they were able to take a league of clubs of whom half was bankrupt and turn it into the undisputed sporting heavyweight that it currently is.

 

[Kwality]

And how do we do that without giving some teams a massive home ground advantage?

Its cobblers, good teams win wherever, e.g that fortress at Geelong - if you are good enough, guess what, see Freo.
When the Eagles are hot, they win at home, in 2013, the much vaunted home ground was worth
zip.They started the season as top 4 shoe ins.
Not to mention noisy/passionate home fans (strangely absent in Vic?) & umps who favour the home side - poor excuses lapped up by fans of losing clubs.

 

[Colonial]

As opposed to the nice anti-vic sentiment you so frequently possess.

Its not the Victorians fault that SA and WA couldnt even stop their own teams from trying to join the VFL. Its not the Victorians fault that by virtue of greater population and economy they had more money to throw around. It IS the fault of the Victorians that they were able to take a league of clubs of whom half was bankrupt and turn it into the undisputed sporting heavyweight that it currently is.

I wonder if you would say the same thing if Aussie Rules took off and wasnt hamstrung by cricket and league in NSW in the 1900's?? With the leagues clubs and pokie money its a fair bet that the Sydney based comp would of been the starting point for the AFL.

 

[telsor]

Its cobblers, good teams win wherever, e.g that fortress at Geelong - if you are good enough, guess what, see Freo.
When the Eagles are hot, they win at home, in 2013, the much vaunted home ground was worth
zip.They started the season as top 4 shoe ins.
Not to mention noisy/passionate home fans (strangely absent in Vic?) & umps who favour the home side - poor excuses lapped up by fans of losing clubs.

So how do you propose to fairly and equally resolve the dilemma of having to travel?