Current Wiembilla Shootings * Coronial Inquiry

[Kurve]

While the discussion of motives can't be avoided, please remember this isn't the place to promote support for conspiracy theories. Thanks.

 

[FR0GGY]

It does feel a lot like people who self identify with the conspiracy theorist side are trying to find ways to diffuse what went on.

Every step of this appears intentional

 

[Terrafirma]

This will be extremely tough on the surviving constables. Keeley was only in the job 8 weeks, she may not recover from her ordeal? Many Police who have faced death are never the same. With news filtering through now that these people were doing Ice and Nathaniel may have been partners with Stacey before Gareth took over it starts to paint some kind of picture. One things for sure apparently Police will be looking at their online activity and conspiracy theories as a motive so this could well be the catalyst for change or a closer eye on extremists. These people would not have lasted long in China or North Korea etc. There is no tolerance for anti govt or anti authority. Nathaniel's health deteriorated after his heart attack and if you throw in Ice you have a recipe for this sort of thing happening. In Australia though we typically wait until after the horse has bolted before we act, so many women in Domestic violence scenarios have to deal with this although the laws are getting better. Lot's to learn and act on after this such a tragedy for so many reasons.!

 

[Terrafirma]

Does it? Or did they just want them out of their vehicles and in the open with no quick way to escape?

Yeah the locked gate could be construed like that if they were acting in a premeditated manner. It could also be construed as we don't want you coming in?

 

[FR0GGY]

Yeah the locked gate could be construed like that if they were acting in a premeditated manner. It could also be construed as we don't want you coming in?

The second bit I could swallow if the rest of it hadn’t played out.

 

[BFew]

• Nathaniel and Gareth Train were said to be using methamphetamine at the home

Deranged conspiracy killers using ice and prepped for apocalypse

The conspiracy theorist gunmen who ambushed four cops and killed two them had spent years fortifying the home into a makeshift bunker to try to fend off an assault by police.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Follow me as I predict Saturday’s lotto numbers

Gut feel was that illegal drugs and/or psychosis were likely involved in this event.

 

[faible]

The second bit I could swallow if the rest of it hadn’t played out.

'we don't want you coming in, but also we'll dress in full camo and hide, with weapons, so that if you come in we can immediately execute you'

 

[Lady O]

Anti-authority conspiracy theorists don't tend to love Police regardless of the reason.

It's hard to put yourself in the heads of these folks, they think so differently. Still, to be already dressed in camo and ready to fire on them as they came over the gate indicates forewarning. It also indicates that there was something they were prepared to kill and die for.

 

[faible]

It's hard to put yourself in the heads of these folks, they think so differently. Still, to be already dressed in camo and ready to fire on them as they came over the gate indicates forewarning. It also indicates that there was something they were prepared to kill and die for.

From memory weren't the police following up on a reported sighting? So it may very well have been that these guys arranged for the 'tip' in order to lure the cops out.

 

[Awakening]

It does feel a lot like people who self identify with the conspiracy theorist side are trying to find ways to diffuse what went on.

This is what I don’t get about a conspiracy theorists. They blindly follow whatever other conspiracy theorists say. Who often have their own agenda.

Do the mainstream media and government have agendas that they push? Of course. And people that 100% believe what the media/govt tell them are referred to as sheep by the theorists. But they do the same.

Opposite sides of the same coin imo.

 

[scoman]

It's hard to put yourself in the heads of these folks, they think so differently. Still, to be already dressed in camo and ready to fire on them as they came over the gate indicates forewarning. It also indicates that there was something they were prepared to kill and die for.

Yeah they had to know they wouldn't survive once they went down that path, or at the very least spend the rest of their lives behind bars. From what I have read they didn't try to escape? They seem to have wanted this to be their end game moment.
I wonder if they realised they couldn't conceal their illegal activities (guns, drugs?) from any visit from the cops and so had planned to fight it out when they inevitably got a visit.

 

[Awakening]

Gut feel was that illegal drugs and/or psychosis were likely involved in this event.

Yeah as much as I’d like to claim I’m a genius with psychic abilities, it was like betting on Pharlap in his heyday.

 

[jason_recliner]

HE refers to US as ret@rded. The irony!

 

[Lady O]

Yeah they had to know they wouldn't survive once they went down that path, or at the very least spend the rest of their lives behind bars. From what I have read they didn't try to escape? They seem to have wanted this to be their end game moment.
I wonder if they realised they couldn't conceal their illegal activities (guns, drugs?) from any visit from the cops and so had planned to fight it out when they inevitably got a visit.

Plus, if the reports on here of them taking meth is true, then likely they were making meth as well. Hope the Police take care when searching the place in case it's booby trapped. Wouldn't like to see anyone else killed or injured because of these ratbags.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

'we don't want you coming in, but also we'll dress in full camo and hide, with weapons, so that if you come in we can immediately execute you'

Young inexperienced coppers get sent for a welfare check. They get to the property but the gate is locked and no-one's answering. Meanwhile the killers have seen them on their cameras.

The coppers ring the station up to get some direction on what to do next. While they wait for direction, the killers are getting kitted and tooled up. Finally the superiors tell the young coppers to just jump the fence and go and check.

'You'll be right, just hop over and go have a look'.

 

[faible]

Young inexperienced coppers get sent for a welfare check. They get to the property but the gate is locked and no-one's answering. Meanwhile the killers have seen them on their cameras.

The coppers ring the station up to get some direction on what to do next. While they wait for direction, the killers are getting kitted and tooled up. Finally the superiors tell the young coppers to just jump the fence and go and check.

'You'll be right, just hop over and go have a look'.

You'd think being based in a rural area that even though (aside from the genuine fresh from the academy officer) they're not hugely experienced they'd have come across locked property gates before and jumped them.

To have fully kitted up in camo, grabbed sufficient weapons, and moved in to position all before the cops got over the fence without being seen seems a little unlikely to me, especially if as was posted here earlier all four officers hadn't even managed to clear the gate before being fired upon.

 

[Terrafirma]

I don't believe they were wearing bullet proof vests. In the USA Officers wear them all the time, but we know what guns are like over there. The $$$ question is did they know the Police were coming and did they lure them if so? Police will be looking into this given it seems they were prepared and were shot as soon as entering. Certainly the Police weren't prepared for what was waiting for them and so it seems they had no idea?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You'd think being based in a rural area that even though (aside from the genuine fresh from the academy officer) they're not hugely experienced they'd have come across locked property gates before and jumped them.

To have fully kitted up in camo, grabbed sufficient weapons, and moved in to position all before the cops got over the fence without being seen seems a little unlikely to me, especially if as was posted here earlier all four officers hadn't even managed to clear the gate before being fired upon.

Unless there was a direct and known threat to life or serious injury or some other obvious emergency situation I wouldn't think coppers should just be jumping locked gates into people's properties, without being given the ok by the owners or from superiors.

Of course a welfare check on a person reported missing might cover it, but if there was no direct proof he was actually there it might muddy the waters again.

 

[Terrafirma]

You'd think being based in a rural area that even though (aside from the genuine fresh from the academy officer) they're not hugely experienced they'd have come across locked property gates before and jumped them.

To have fully kitted up in camo, grabbed sufficient weapons, and moved in to position all before the cops got over the fence without being seen seems a little unlikely to me, especially if as was posted here earlier all four officers hadn't even managed to clear the gate before being fired upon.

Yeah you'd have to agree with the last bit but there is some confusion due to the media reports. I've seen a diagram of the house/property which was numbered as to what happened where and it says the Officers were shot nearer to the house than the road. So that mean's they weren't shot just after jumping the fence. This is the media that mixes words or gets them wrong. Example were shot after jumping the fence, but that doesn't necessarily mean at the time of jumping the fence. If you look at the driveway it bends around and straightens up approaching the house and I believe they were shot closer to the front of the house. If this is true it gives the killers sometime to get ready but we don't know exactly how long?

 

[Terrafirma]

This is the diagram I was referring to. Number 2 is where they were initially shot. Number 1-2 is where they were shot according to this. I don't know how accurate this is but if they were shot closer to the house it gives the killers extra time to prepare from the moment they arrive at the property. As you can also see the driveway is fairly long. In the 2nd pic you can see what looks like gates near the house. Did Dare approach from a different direction.?

1. Officers come under fire as they walk towards the house
2. Constables McCrow and Arnold shot and killed
3. Constable kirk shot in the leg and escapes to his vehicle
4. Neighbour Alan Dare shot next to gate
5. Officer Keeley hides in grass
6. SOG Arrive by helicopter to recover bodies and surround the house
7. The Trains are shot and killed by Special Ops

 

[Kurve]

Back in August further north in Bogie, a man met four of his neighbours for a chat and shot them all, killed three with one getting away.

I'll just drop the link in here, it might come up again at some stage.

Man charged with murder over shooting of neighbours at north Queensland property

Police have charged a 59-year-old man with the murders of three people and the attempted murder of a fourth on a rural cattle property at Bogie in north Queensland.

www.abc.net.au

 

[nut]

Agreed.

Sometimes a press release will come with a warning like do not approach and if seen, call 000 but in this case just call Crimestoppers. All mundane and routine.

But

Why 4 police sent to 1 location for a missing person?

Something must have changed for that many police to go on a missing person call out.

Maybe because they had gun licenses?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

It's hard to put yourself in the heads of these folks, they think so differently. Still, to be already dressed in camo and ready to fire on them as they came over the gate indicates forewarning. It also indicates that there was something they were prepared to kill and die for.

The older brother was a prepper, wearing cams could be just what they wear as everyday dress.

Maybe they were about to have some target practice when the coppers showed up. It could have just been shit bad timing on behalf of the cops, like walking down Bourke St when that mad campaigner decided to run people over.

There's so many scenarios I can think of but in the end, the dead tell no tales. It will all come down to the 2 survivors and any body cam footage and forensics.

 

[utility]

This is what I don’t get about a conspiracy theorists. They blindly follow whatever other conspiracy theorists say. Who often have their own agenda.

Do the mainstream media and government have agendas that they push? Of course. And people that 100% believe what the media/govt tell them are referred to as sheep by the theorists. But they do the same.

Opposite sides of the same coin imo.

This is what I don’t get about Greens. They blindly follow whatever other Greens say. Who often have their own agenda.

This is what I don’t get about Christians. They blindly follow whatever other Christians say. Who often have their own agenda.

There's no evidence (yet) that this event was premeditated or motivated by any belief. There's a lot of reporting that doesn't pass the scratch'n'sniff test. I'd suggest to not make bold claims for at least a few months or even before an inquest because most of what is in print is likely to follow a particular bias or narrative. More likely a bunch of meth heads with a screw loose and firearms... but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[utility]

Maybe they were about to have some target practice when the coppers showed up. It could have just been s**t bad timing on behalf of the cops, like walking down Bourke St when that mad campaigner decided to run people over.

There were initial reports that the Bourke Street incident was a 'terrorist' attack when it turned out to be just a nut in a car.

This may turn out to be similar. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[faible]

There's no evidence (yet) that this event was premeditated or motivated by any belief. There's a lot of reporting that doesn't pass the scratch'n'sniff test. I'd suggest to not make bold claims for at least a few months or even before an inquest because most of what is in print is likely to follow a particular bias or narrative. More likely a bunch of meth heads with a screw loose and firearms... but we'll have to wait and see.

RE: the bolded - you don't think that they were in camouflage gear and armed, firing upon police as soon as some of them had cleared the front gate, suggest perhaps there was an element of premeditation?

It's not like the cops busted in to the house then they scrabbled to find anything nearby and started shooting.

There's also apparently bodycam footage from all the officers that attended so they'll pretty quickly have a broad sense of what happened.