Wildcard Weekend

[The Big Steele]

wild card games are stolen straight from the NFL.

 

[doppleganger]

So instead of rewarding teams that have played brilliantly throughout the year that may have one hiccup week 1 of finals, you want to reward the teams that have lost more games than they have won and struggle into 9th and 10th spot????

Ridiculous and makes a mockery of the finals.

My preferred finals format is a top 6.

3 weeks, all knock-out.

Week One - 1 & 2 have a rest, 3 v 6 & 4 v 5
Week Two - 1 v lowest ranked winner, 2 v the other winner
Week Three - GF

Problem with that is, that it cuts finals games down to just 5 and is played over only 3 weeks.

The AFL wants at least 4 weeks of finals, and hence you have stupid irrelevant games like QF that just pad out the finals series.

I dont want a 5 week finals system......I like Molly's idea of top 6 with week off and then all knock-out. I think that works much better than the current format.

Im not sure why so many people seem to be so attached to a format that has only existed for 10 years!?

 

[Father Jack]

wild card games are stolen straight from the NFL.

... and?

 

[doppleganger]

wild card games are stolen straight from the NFL.

Baseball has 'wildcard' games too.

The european champions league is split between teams that automatically qualify and then others that have to go through qualifying before making it.

Not too dissimilar really.......6 teams automatically make the finals, then 4 others compete for the last two spots.

 

[sidebum]

Im not sure why so many people seem to be so attached to a format that has only existed for 10 years!?

It's not that people are attached to the current format, it's that they're aware that adding a 9th and 10th team to the finals equation is stupid.

I'm a fan of the top 6 suggestion that you raised though, just a shame that the AFL would never go with it.

 

[Rob]

Baseball has 'wildcard' games too.

The european champions league is split between teams that automatically qualify and then others that have to go through qualifying before making it.

Not too dissimilar really.......6 teams automatically make the finals, then 4 others compete for the last two spots.

It is dissimilar when you consider that your 2 examples pits teams up against other teams in different leagues/conferences. We have a way to determine the last 2 spots in the 8 - it's called the ladder. Teams that finish 7th and 8th get those 2 last spots.

If we were split into 2 leagues of 9, then the wildcard playoff idea may have some merit.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Yes, I like the idea of a wild card weekend, they wouldn't be 'finalists' as such, the top 6 get a week off, and four sides have to win their way through to 'the finals', where they'll invariably get smashed.

Out of all the really terrible ideas, this is the least terrible. If they insisted on going with this ridiculous wildcard sham, then this is the only way it'd have any semblance of credibility.

 

[The_Wookie]

Mick Malthouse weighs into the debate.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/109120/default.aspx

At last someone with a bit of credibility steps in and states the bleeding obvious

Um Im sorry but no Collingwood coach, administrator or suppporter can complain about the integrity of the finals system after the draw they get.

Im not bitching about the draw as I understand the reasons it exists - BUT they will be the exact same reasons used to expand the teams in the finals from 8 to 10. More attendances, more tv viewers and more money.

Irony is delicious.

 

[Perry Pie]

Introducing 9th & 10th into the finals dilutes the quality and rewards poor performance. A rubbish rubbish idea. The 8 (out of 18 or even 20 teams) is perfectly good.

 

[Smokin]

We have a way to determine the last 2 spots in the 8 - it's called the ladder. Teams that finish 7th and 8th get those 2 last spots.

But unlike just about every other competition in the world, 'the ladder' is based on ranking teams with totally skewed draws. It isnt a level playing field in the slightest, and will never ever be.

That is the backbone why I am not so worried as to having more teams given the opportunity, as it complements other positives such as revenue and the chance for fewer 'dead' games.

The difference between 8th and 9th can easily be attributed to the different draws. Yes, under this scenario 10th v 11th just the same, but obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

[doppleganger]

Um Im sorry but no Collingwood coach, administrator or suppporter can complain about the integrity of the finals system after the draw they get.

Im not bitching about the draw as I understand the reasons it exists - BUT they will be the exact same reasons used to expand the teams in the finals from 8 to 10. More attendances, more tv viewers and more money.

Irony is delicious.

You are b1tching about the draw.

Collingwood's draw is manipulated in terms of exposure.....ie play in the premium slots, Friday night etc

However, the difficulty is basically fixed to how Carlton and Essendon are travelling (when those two sides are rubbish the fixture looks easy, when they are up and about it is always a tough draw).

 

[Scodog10]

Um Im sorry but no Collingwood coach, administrator or suppporter can complain about the integrity of the finals system after the draw they get.

Im not bitching about the draw as I understand the reasons it exists - BUT they will be the exact same reasons used to expand the teams in the finals from 8 to 10. More attendances, more tv viewers and more money.

Irony is delicious.

Fair shake of the sauce bottle. Your team is also guaranteed to play us, Essendon and Richmond twice, you only travel 4 times in 2011 (same as Collingwood), your guaranteed to start the season every year against Richmond to increase attendances, tv viewers and money and you get to play 9 matches at the G which isn't even your home ground!

Yeah I can cop it from a North Melbourne supporter but coming from a Carlton supporter that's very rich.

 

[Baldur]

7 & 8 are a waste at present, adding 9 & 10 will simply reward failure. They have no chance of winning the flag so why have them in the finals.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Given only 2 teams from 5-8th have ever made it to a prelim under the current top 8 system, with neither making the grand final it seems to work currently the top 4 are the only teams with a chance. So the logic of more teams making up the numbers seems to be missing. It would also be a big letdown after round 22 or 24 whatever it may be seeing the next weekend 4 mediocre teams go at it for the right to acheive nothing.

 

[fraser25]

8 of 18 is perfect

8 of 16 was too many in.

 

[Ari]

Teams that finish 8th are usaully average, let alone 9th/10th.

Leave as it is, finals aren't ment to be easy to get there!

Correct.

My mob snuck into 8th in 2009 and then got smashed the week after. It just puts supporters through unnecessary hope. If you ain't good enough, you ain't good enough.

I'd even support a final 6 again. They were REAL finals. Now, honestly, the finals don't start till we get to the pre-lims. THAT'S where we know we have 4 teams who can all win the flag.

 

[The_Wookie]

Fair shake of the sauce bottle. Your team is also guaranteed to play us, Essendon and Richmond twice, you only travel 4 times in 2011 (same as Collingwood), your guaranteed to start the season every year against Richmond to increase attendances, tv viewers and money and you get to play 9 matches at the G which isn't even your home ground!

Yeah I can cop it from a North Melbourne supporter but coming from a Carlton supporter that's very rich.

FFS Im not bitching. Im saying the same reasons will apply to the AFL giving more finals out. Read the friggin post for christs sake before getting on your high horses.

The draw has no integrity due to the AFLs desire to maximimise money and draw crowds and tv audiences. The irony in Malthouses comments is that these are the exact same reasons why there will be more teams in the finals. Which is exactly what I said the first time!

 

[Scodog10]

Um Im sorry but no Collingwood coach, administrator or suppporter can complain about the integrity of the finals system after the draw they get.

Are you serious? You took umbrage with my club about whinging about the integrity of the draw!

Considering we at Collingwood don't run the AFL or set the draw up i fail to see the logic behind potting us. In your own eyes you may not be bitching about the draw, but as soon as you make comments like the above its a negative connotation on my club who have no bearing on the draw whatsoever and that is why I'm on my damn high horse!!

 

[Go_collingwood_]

if they dont do this how will teams like melbourne and norf make the finals?

 

[Pessimistic]

Could be played over 4 weeks with 10 teams - just give 1 and 2 guaranteed prelim appearance

Also in current finals, sometimes 2 gets an easier PF than the top team. rig the two sides of the draw so that one is always stronger, then 1 (or winner of a possible qualifier 1v2) plays the weaker side of the draw in prelim

Teams 3 to 10 are wildcard, arranged into 'weaker' and 'stronger' groups


Strong group.
week 1 - 3 plays 10 and 4 plays 9
week 2 - two winners play off - winner to PF

Weak group
week 1 - 5 plays 8 and 6 plays 7
week 2 - two winners play off - winner to prelim

Week 3 is the prelims where 1 and 2 are guaranteed to take part

Two options :
Week 3 - 1 plays winner of weak group, 2 plays winner of strong group OR
1v2 in week one, Week 3 - winner plays winner of weak group, loser plays winner of strong group

grand final is winner of the two prelims

Things I like:
-still only 4 week series
-positions 3 to 10 are all knockout games = more intersting
-positions 1 and 2 get a better reward - guaranteed prelim
-1v2 which means a real test of the top two teams which could be in front of fans not corporates. a real friday or saturday night blockbuster - which is the only aditional game under this arrangement

 

[Perry Pie]

But unlike just about every other competition in the world, 'the ladder' is based on ranking teams with totally skewed draws. It isnt a level playing field in the slightest, and will never ever be.

That is the backbone why I am not so worried as to having more teams given the opportunity, as it complements other positives such as revenue and the chance for fewer 'dead' games.

The difference between 8th and 9th can easily be attributed to the different draws. Yes, under this scenario 10th v 11th just the same, but obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere.

6th to 8th covers this problem of the irregular draw perfectly well. 7th and 8th make up the numbers now and will continue to so in future.

Adding more second rate teams to the finals makes the finals worse not better.

 

[Father Jack]

7th and 8th often win in the first week.

 

[Perry Pie]

Could be played over 4 weeks with 10 teams - just give 1 and 2 guaranteed prelim appearance

Also in current finals, sometimes 2 gets an easier PF than the top team. rig the two sides of the draw so that one is always stronger, then 1 (or winner of a possible qualifier 1v2) plays the weaker side of the draw in prelim

Teams 3 to 10 are wildcard, arranged into 'weaker' and 'stronger' groups


Strong group.
week 1 - 3 plays 10 and 4 plays 9
week 2 - two winners play off - winner to PF

Weak group
week 1 - 5 plays 8 and 6 plays 7
week 2 - two winners play off - winner to prelim

Week 3 is the prelims where 1 and 2 are guaranteed to take part

Two options :
Week 3 - 1 plays winner of weak group, 2 plays winner of strong group OR
1v2 in week one, Week 3 - winner plays winner of weak group, loser plays winner of strong group

grand final is winner of the two prelims

Things I like:
-still only 4 week series
-positions 3 to 10 are all knockout games = more intersting
-positions 1 and 2 get a better reward - guaranteed prelim
-1v2 which means a real test of the top two teams which could be in front of fans not corporates. a real friday or saturday night blockbuster - which is the only aditional game under this arrangement

How about 1 - 16 playoff. (1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc). Winners through to the following week. Just like the NAB cup but with the bottom 2 teams from the H & A seasons eliminated and not taking part.

If we can get a few teams to merge and go back to 16 sides we could even get rid of that meaningless home and away season the takes up week after week of the winter. All games will be meaningful then and there is less chance of injury to the players.

 

[FootyJunkie]

1 wild card playoff, 8th v 9th, yes, not not 2.

 

[The_Wookie]

Are you serious? You took umbrage with my club about whinging about the integrity of the draw!

Considering we at Collingwood don't run the AFL or set the draw up i fail to see the logic behind potting us. In your own eyes you may not be bitching about the draw, but as soon as you make comments like the above its a negative connotation on my club who have no bearing on the draw whatsoever and that is why I'm on my damn high horse!!

Im saying the situation is exactly the same and that malthouse shouldnt complain about a finals system that rewards mediocrity when theres a whole draw that rewards victorian mediocrity.

Im not complaining about your stupid draw.