TAS Will a team go to Tassie

[Johnny Bananas]

I'm not sure they can do much more to upgrade Bellerive. It's in a nice spot right on a beach, but it's also situated right in the middle of a suburban area surrounded by people's houses. Things like parking are a big issue.

The goal with a Tassie team was to upgrade UTAS Stadium's capacity initially (which wouldn't cost much). They'd used Launceston for the big drawing games in the first few seasons while building a brand new stadium in Hobart.

The basic problem is I doubt anyone is going to pay for a brand new stadium. I like the idea that has been suggested here (think it was by madmug but might have been someone else) of upgrading KGV Oval instead, it's near that light rail line they want to put in.

 

[madmug]

The basic problem is I doubt anyone is going to pay for a brand new stadium. I like the idea that has been suggested here (think it was by madmug but might have been someone else) of upgrading KGV Oval instead, it's near that light rail line they want to put in.

Pork barrel park was always going to get the major upgrade & major games. That's the politics.

Boot Park was always going to be a problem. When they started developing it in the mid 80's so many people said its a stupid place to build a stadium. On a suburban beach on a peninsula in a village like area, access was & is crap.

The Big Arses that pumped for it were so myopic & self interested. Egoists like the then Cricket boss who pushed it lived around the corner so it was a short waddle for him. He was a big wig with the local teams which used it for cricket & footy.

They touted ferry services which never really accounted to much.

KGV at least has lots of parking, the light rail if it ever gets developed on the rail line that still exists, a bus mall & highway access nearby. Its the most sensible option. Not that sense comes into it.

North Hobart Oval is just too small & again has limited access. A great venue with an amphitheatre effect. Sad but its not up to it any more,

FWIW!

 

[fargothegreat]

Pork barrel park was always going to get the major upgrade & major games. That's the politics.

Boot Park was always going to be a problem. When they started developing it in the mid 80's so many people said its a stupid place to build a stadium. On a suburban beach on a peninsula in a village like area, access was & is crap.

The Big Arses that pumped for it were so myopic & self interested. Egoists like the then Cricket boss who pushed it lived around the corner so it was a short waddle for him. He was a big wig with the local teams which used it for cricket & footy.

They touted ferry services which never really accounted to much.

KGV at least has lots of parking, the light rail if it ever gets developed on the rail line that still exists, a bus mall & highway access nearby. Its the most sensible option. Not that sense comes into it.

North Hobart Oval is just too small & again has limited access. A great venue with an amphitheatre effect. Sad but its not up to it any more,

FWIW!

My favourite option is the sports precinct at Macquarie Point, but that would require serious dollars from State and federal government - it does help that both major parties need to offer a big carrot to win the seat back from Wilkie.

KGV is a pretty solid common sense option, and kind of fits with the development of the DEC for NBL. And yeah definitely fits with the business case for the light rail.

 

[mightymouse75]

Maybe Tassie can move to st kilda ?

 

[Freomaniac]

Who is going to pay the hundreds of millions to get Whitten Oval up to 35k. The AFL dies the fixture so how would that help with negotiations? Good way to send clubs broke.

The tax payers obviously.

They paid millions to upgrade Kardinia Park. It did help that the Premier, steve bracks, is a geelong fan. That didnt send Geelong cats Broke didnt it??

They cant spend millions on upgrading Princes park too?

The point is, If Tassie gets its own side, then Launcestons capacity can lift to 25-30,000

 

[madmug]

My favourite option is the sports precinct at Macquarie Point, but that would require serious dollars from State and federal government - it does help that both major parties need to offer a big carrot to win the seat back from Wilkie.

KGV is a pretty solid common sense option, and kind of fits with the development of the DEC for NBL. And yeah definitely fits with the business case for the light rail.

Yes MacPoint would be great. Cant ever see it happening now as it would cost a mint & the area have other values for various tourist & accommodation options.

As much as I love North Hobart as a footy venue, for the reasons above, the cheapest solid option is really & clearly KGV.

 

[fargothegreat]

Yes MacPoint would be great. Cant ever see it happening now as it would cost a mint & the area have other values for various tourist & accommodation options.

As much as I love North Hobart as a footy venue, for the reasons above, the cheapest solid option is really & clearly KGV.

Perhaps they will look at the Domain also?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Pork barrel park was always going to get the major upgrade & major games. That's the politics.

Boot Park was always going to be a problem. When they started developing it in the mid 80's so many people said its a stupid place to build a stadium. On a suburban beach on a peninsula in a village like area, access was & is crap.

The Big Arses that pumped for it were so myopic & self interested. Egoists like the then Cricket boss who pushed it lived around the corner so it was a short waddle for him. He was a big wig with the local teams which used it for cricket & footy.

They touted ferry services which never really accounted to much.

KGV at least has lots of parking, the light rail if it ever gets developed on the rail line that still exists, a bus mall & highway access nearby. Its the most sensible option. Not that sense comes into it.

North Hobart Oval is just too small & again has limited access. A great venue with an amphitheatre effect. Sad but its not up to it any more,

FWIW!

Bellreive is a ridiculous place to have the main stadium in Hobart.. So where else has enough land but would be central, looking at google maps TCA or Crossroad soldiers oval looks like it might fit the bill with a good location walking distance to city centre and plenty of space around to build a stadium and car parking.

 

[Walshawk]

The tax payers obviously.

They paid millions to upgrade Kardinia Park. It did help that the Premier, steve bracks, is a geelong fan. That didnt send Geelong cats Broke didnt it??

They cant spend millions on upgrading Princes park too?

The point is, If Tassie gets its own side, then Launcestons capacity can lift to 25-30,000

Yes it can, but the Vic government is never going to upgrade stadiums that will never be used. Strange thinking.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Have GWS ever sold out a game at Manuka Oval

A few times. The Giants have had five Manuka crowds over the official capacity.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Bellreive is a ridiculous place to have the main stadium in Hobart.. So where else has enough land but would be central, looking at google maps TCA or Crossroad soldiers oval looks like it might fit the bill with a good location walking distance to city centre and plenty of space around to build a stadium and car parking.

The TCA is on a fairly big hill. There is not as much space as you think. As well as that, the parklands and WW1 walk are very popular.

The most obvious place is Mac Point, which is an area of old dock buildings right in the heart of Hobart. But everyone wants a piece of that pie.

 

[big_e]

I see.



the reasons I asked this is because If Whitten oval up to 30-35k might help the Dogs.

Geelong plays it home games in a 36,000 seat kardinia park.

I was hoping Princes Park or Ikon Park to a 35,000 seat arena as a negotiating tool. So If Carlton or North are into a bad deal with Docklands, both those could of said "Look, Its better to get 30,000 at Princes Park than get 30,000 at Docklands because Princes park offers cheaper rent."

North, Saints and Dogs are suffering because of the bad Docklands deal. Also there is no Alternative smaller grounds to use.

Tassie is a weird case.

I am another person that wants Tassie in the AFL.

York Park needs a cheap upgrade to 25-30,000 seats. So Does Bellrieve oval.

If the AFL played fewer games at Docklands, it immediately devalues the asset that their massive line of credit is secured against, probably breaches covenants, and puts the entire architecture of football in this country at risk.

They've done some dumb shit in their time, but no-one's that stupid.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The tax payers obviously.

They paid millions to upgrade Kardinia Park. It did help that the Premier, steve bracks, is a geelong fan. That didnt send Geelong cats Broke didnt it??

They cant spend millions on upgrading Princes park too?

The factor that you're not taking into account is politics. Geelong contains a swing seat at both state and federal level, so it gets showered with money for things like stadium upgrades. Western and Northern Melbourne are incredibly solid for the Labor Party at all levels, so there's no incentive for candidates to make extra promises there. That's also why Launceston gets plenty of stadium upgrades and Hobart doesn't.

 

[Pessimistic]

Clearly the best option for the AFL in the longer term is to create a relegation system for all the Victorian teams. The year the AFL decides to create a new team in Tasmania, that they so richly deserve, the lowest 3 ranked Victorian teams on the ladder should be relegated to the VFL.

Based on current ladder positions, all of the Dogs, Geelong and Melbourne would be relegated this year for example.

In subsequent years, the lowest 2 teams from Victoria, should again be relegated to the VFL. With the top teams from the VFL promoted to join AFL ranks.

Obviously this is a win win win for everyone. A team in Tassie. A reduction to a 16 team premier competition. A culling of excessive Melbourne based teams, though not a loss of the teams to the system. An opportunity for any of the VFL teams to be promoted to the big league. They’ll all have something to genuinely play for.


* Seriously, this deserves its own thread

where in the world can some teams be relegated and others immune?

the poorest Victorian team is still more solvent than gws or gc

 

[SaltPeter]

where in the world can some teams be relegated and others immune?

the poorest Victorian team is still more solvent than gws or gc

It’s not really viable for interstate teams to be relagated to the VFL.

The AFL has proven over time that it’s prepared to support financial basketcases like St Kilda. It not really about money, it’s about getting a stand alone team in Tassie, and reducing to the competition to 16 teams

 

[Carringbush2010]

The Tamanians don't want North Melbourne. They want their own team. North should have gone to Gold Coast a decade ago. Biggest mis step the league ever made.

It wasn't the league's mis step, the North members voted against it and club went on the advice of their members.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes it can, but the Vic government is never going to upgrade stadiums that will never be used. Strange thinking.

I dont think its strange thinking. Could the dogs make money playing in a suburban ground that holds 30,000 seats? Would Whitten oval/West oval play A-league games there too.

Again, Carlton were playing home games at Princes park as recently as 2005. Why they dont let AFL teams play there I dont know.

If the AFL played fewer games at Docklands, it immediately devalues the asset that their massive line of credit is secured against, probably breaches covenants, and puts the entire architecture of football in this country at risk.

They've done some dumb shit in their time, but no-one's that stupid.

As a north fan, I find this strange.

North fans are unhappy playing games at ethiad when they only get 20-25,000 people rocking up there.

On the other hand they dont want to relocate at Tassie, but is willing to play a game there and get paid 1 million each game at Tassie.

They also dont want to play at Princes Park even its North of Melbourne.

So what do you really want?

The factor that you're not taking into account is politics. Geelong contains a swing seat at both state and federal level, so it gets showered with money for things like stadium upgrades. Western and Northern Melbourne are incredibly solid for the Labor Party at all levels, so there's no incentive for candidates to make extra promises there. That's also why Launceston gets plenty of stadium upgrades and Hobart doesn't.

Well you think of Brisbanes history in the AFL. They played games in Carrara at Gold coast for the 1st few years. Then move to the Gabba in 1993.

When Brisbane made finals in 1995-6, the Gabbas capacity was around 25,000. When Brisbane wont the 2001-3 flags, the Gabbas capacity was 37,500.

The suns played a few home games in 2011 at the Gabbs too.

 

[Walshawk]

I dont think its strange thinking. Could the dogs make money playing in a suburban ground that holds 30,000 seats? Would Whitten oval/West oval play A-league games there too.

Again, Carlton were playing home games at Princes park as recently as 2005. Why they dont let AFL teams play there I dont know.


As a north fan, I find this strange.

North fans are unhappy playing games at ethiad when they only get 20-25,000 people rocking up there.

On the other hand they dont want to relocate at Tassie, but is willing to play a game there and get paid 1 million each game at Tassie.

They also dont want to play at Princes Park even its North of Melbourne.

So what do you really want?


Well you think of Brisbanes history in the AFL. They played games in Carrara at Gold coast for the 1st few years. Then move to the Gabba in 1993.

When Brisbane made finals in 1995-6, the Gabbas capacity was around 25,000. When Brisbane wont the 2001-3 flags, the Gabbas capacity was 37,500.

The suns played a few home games in 2011 at the Gabbs too.

I will do some basic maths for you. Spend $300m (conservative) to bulls a basic $30k stadium in Footscray. Let’s be generous and say the dogs make an extra half a million per game. So, after 600 games (54 seasons) they will start making money. That is assuming the the AFL will schedule games at a stadium that would be a direct competitor to Marvel.
Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

 

[Walshawk]

The basic problem is I doubt anyone is going to pay for a brand new stadium. I like the idea that has been suggested here (think it was by madmug but might have been someone else) of upgrading KGV Oval instead, it's near that light rail line they want to put in.

The thing is they don’t need a brand new stadium.York Park is basic but well located and easy to increase capacity to 25 - 27k. Bellerive would get 18k each game, so the club would average around 22k per home game. That is similar to North now and around 70% higher than GC or GWS.
The first year will see huge crowds, but this may drop off years 2 - 4 as the team will likely struggle. All going well, you build a new stadium in Hobart five years in once they start making finals.

 

[big_e]

So what do you really want?

Some common sense in this thread would be a good start.

 

[fargothegreat]

The thing is they don’t need a brand new stadium.York Park is basic but well located and easy to increase capacity to 25 - 27k. Bellerive would get 18k each game, so the club would average around 22k per home game. That is similar to North now and around 70% higher than GC or GWS.
The first year will see huge crowds, but this may drop off years 2 - 4 as the team will likely struggle. All going well, you build a new stadium in Hobart five years in once they start making finals.

Another thing that makes the business case so appealing. The only immediate infrastructure spend is for a training facility.

 

[fargothegreat]

Some common sense in this thread would be a good start.

If your club had any common sense they'd be enjoying life in the sun on the Gold Coast.

 

[Freomaniac]

I will do some basic maths for you. Spend $300m (conservative) to bulls a basic $30k stadium in Footscray. Let’s be generous and say the dogs make an extra half a million per game. So, after 600 games (54 seasons) they will start making money. That is assuming the the AFL will schedule games at a stadium that would be a direct competitor to Marvel.
Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

So how much did it cost to develop docklands?

Will it cost 300 milllon to do up Princes park?

How much money was spent on Kardinia Park?

 

[Freomaniac]

Some common sense in this thread would be a good start.

Such as what?

Talking about the Docklands deal again?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The thing is they don’t need a brand new stadium...

All going well, you build a new stadium in Hobart five years in once they start making finals.

I'm confused, you say they don't need a new stadium but you're also advocating for one.

Bellerive would get 18k each game

How long do you think they can last getting 18k to Bellerive, when as madmug has described at length, it's hard to get in and out of and there's inadequate public transport or parking? Poor logistics is one of the reasons why Sydney gets poor crowds in the NRL, and I see Bellerive repeating that trend if it isn't replaced with a better-located stadium.