Universal Love Will Langford

[Ordovician]

He has continued his good form from last year at BH into this season. Of course the standard his higher so his performance is diminished but FMD he is on a very steep learning curve running around shoulder to shoulder with the absolute elite of the competition.

He lacks an awful lot for a clearance midfielder, like all around awarenes and quick disposal skills, but he is holding his own by tenacity, uncompromising attack on the ball, and an insane running capacity for a kid who was medically rooted a few years back and that is truly remarkable.

He is apparently, quite intelligent, keen to learn and has an exemplary attitude that shines through in his interviews. Best of all he is 100% hawthorn and 100% grounded. He patiently worked through his health issues gradually building himself up and bidding his time on the rookie list and has reaped the rewards.

It is a delight to have a player of such sound character on the list.

He has done remarkably well for a debutant and if he can continue to improve he'll end up as a very good player indeed.

 

[madhawksfan]

Has 200 gamer written all over him. He has the tools to be much more than a tagger but needs experience playing different roles. Could see him being a very handy lock down defender or a ball winning mid/HF if he can improve his ball handling and disposal speed by hand. Exciting times with players like Langers coming through.

 

[StrattoHawk]

This guy is a dude and a half!

 

[Davo23]

This guy is a dude and a half!

Sweet!

 

[cryptor]

Our future midfields are looking very very bright with
Hill, Anderson, Smith, Woodward and Hartung

Looks very quick but quite small. Hallahan is a bigger body for the clearances. Whitecross also if he can return to form after 2 knees.

 

[Brishawk]

Looks very quick but quite small. Hallahan is a bigger body for the clearances. Whitecross also if he can return to form after 2 knees.

Yep. Apart from Anderson they are all short people. Throw hartung into that category too. Rioli is short too. We need to recruit some taller mods so going forward we don't get out marked by opposition miss week in week out.

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[SHAKESPEARE]

taller mods

oh boy grizzlym i wouldn't take that

 

[cryptor]

Yep. Apart from Anderson they are all short people. Throw hartung into that category too. Rioli is short too. We need to recruit some taller mods so going forward we don't get out marked by opposition miss week in week out.

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Smith is actually 188cm but he's quite slight. Langford is 187cm and I can see him putting on another 5kg of muscle.

Anderson is only 179cm compared to Hill, 181cm; Hartung, 177cm; Woodward, 181cm; Breust, 184cm; Hallahan, 183cm; Shiels, 183cm; Simpkin, 181cm.

Lewis has still got quite a few years left though. He's 186cm.
Birchall (193cm) has also got a few years left and I reckon he could be an alright mid with his tank and now that's he got some aggression in his game.

I don't think we should necessarily get caught up on a few inches though. Mitchell is 179cm and one of the best mids in the game and Anderson at the same height has proven to still be an effective contested marker. What we really need is a couple of big bodied (not necessarily tall) mids who can win the ball in the packs and also take contested marks around the ground. It's one thing that Geelong has that we lack and it kills us every time.

 

[Brishawk]

Smith is actually 188cm but he's quite slight. Langford is 187cm and I can see him putting on another 5kg of muscle.

Anderson is only 179cm compared to Hill, 181cm; Hartung, 177cm; Woodward, 181cm; Breust, 184cm; Hallahan, 183cm; Shiels, 183cm; Simpkin, 181cm.

Lewis has still got quite a few years left though. He's 186cm.
Birchall (193cm) has also got a few years left and I reckon he could be an alright mid with his tank and now that's he got some aggression in his game.

I don't think we should necessarily get caught up on a few inches though. Mitchell is 179cm and one of the best mids in the game and Anderson at the same height has proven to still be an effective contested marker. What we really need is a couple of big bodied (not necessarily tall) mids who can win the ball in the packs and also take contested marks around the ground. It's one thing that Geelong has that we lack and it kills us every time.

Those heights don't ring true. Judging by photos and footage I put Anderson on about 183. He looks nearly as tall as Burgoyne in some shots. I doubt very much Anderson is shorter than Woodward. And I doubt Woodward is actually 181. Garlet was listed as 181 and he was clearly taller than Woodward. And Woodward is shorter than hartung in every photo I have seen. Contrast that group of players with geelong's next gen mids. Selwood and Christensen are the only ones that are under 186cm and a few are closer to 190cm. We simply can't have a midfield that is 10+ cm shorter than their opposition as a group. A few short guys is fine but a fleet of them is a problem. It's a problem around clearances and it's a problem in the air. I think ideally you would have no more than 3 guys under 180 cm. hill and rioli are two and we already have puopolo, Mitchell and duryea in the team too. Now assume Mitch retires and Burgoyne and hodge retire soon, and roughy stops playing in the midfield. That is one short guy and three tall mids. All we have on our list to replace them is hallahan, Anderson, hartung, Woodward, Webster, and wanganeen. None of which are as tall as hodge, let alone the other two. If Sicily makes it as a mid then that is one covered but realistically we will need to bring in some taller mids by trade/free agency if we are to maintain the existing height of our midfield rotations. I don't count Langford and smith here as they are already in the team. This is one reason why pursuing Gibbs would be good for our team. Maybe he would want too much money but he is exactly the type and age of player we need to fill in the gap while we recruit younger players to develop. Lewis and Langford are leading our clearances this year. They are 186 and 187 cm. look at freos and geelong's mids. They are mostly tall guys. It's the way the game has been going for a while and it is an area where we can and will be exposed unless we recruit accordingly.


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[cryptor]

Those heights don't ring true. Judging by photos and footage I put Anderson on about 183. He looks nearly as tall as Burgoyne in some shots. I doubt very much Anderson is shorter than Woodward. And I doubt Woodward is actually 181. Garlet was listed as 181 and he was clearly taller than Woodward. And Woodward is shorter than hartung in every photo I have seen. Contrast that group of players with geelong's next gen mids. Selwood and Christensen are the only ones that are under 186cm and a few are closer to 190cm. We simply can't have a midfield that is 10+ cm shorter than their opposition as a group. A few short guys is fine but a fleet of them is a problem. It's a problem around clearances and it's a problem in the air. I think ideally you would have no more than 3 guys under 180 cm. hill and rioli are two and we already have puopolo, Mitchell and duryea in the team too. Now assume Mitch retires and Burgoyne and hodge retire soon, and roughy stops playing in the midfield. That is one short guy and three tall mids. All we have on our list to replace them is hallahan, Anderson, hartung, Woodward, Webster, and wanganeen. None of which are as tall as hodge, let alone the other two. If Sicily makes it as a mid then that is one covered but realistically we will need to bring in some taller mids by trade/free agency if we are to maintain the existing height of our midfield rotations. I don't count Langford and smith here as they are already in the team. This is one reason why pursuing Gibbs would be good for our team. Maybe he would want too much money but he is exactly the type and age of player we need to fill in the gap while we recruit younger players to develop. Lewis and Langford are leading our clearances this year. They are 186 and 187 cm. look at freos and geelong's mids. They are mostly tall guys. It's the way the game has been going for a while and it is an area where we can and will be exposed unless we recruit accordingly.


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I was just going by the stats on the Hawks website. I know it's notoriously inaccurate though.

There are benefits to having shorter mids though. Generally they are harder to tackle due to a lower centre of gravity. They are closer to the ground and on average tend to be better below the knees than their taller counter parts.

I do agree that it would be good to have another taller, big bodied mid for stoppages. We look really good with Roughy at centre clearances as a rover when he could put on a block for Rioli or Mitchell to swoop on the loose ball. He's also strong enough to stop opposition big bodied mids when they get the tap, extract the ball from them and get the handball or kick off to one of our guys.

Good versions of these type of players are fairly rare and are expensive in free agency. It might be worth identifying a young, mid-size (~190cm) defender from another team that can slot into our midfield. I don't know anything about Nick Haynes (GWS, pick #7 2011 ND, 192cm/87kg) other than what I can see from his profile on the GWS website (can play through midfield, good agility, aerobic capacity, running ability and overhead mark) but he may be a possibility if he doesn't cement his place in their team or he wants to return home at the end of his contract. He may be a soft squib for all I know so maybe not a good fit but it's these young, fringe players from other teams that we ought to be in the ear of. Much cheaper than throwing the farm at Mundy, Gibbs and Goddard types.

 

[Brishawk]

I was just going by the stats on the Hawks website. I know it's notoriously inaccurate though.

There are benefits to having shorter mids though. Generally they are harder to tackle due to a lower centre of gravity. They are closer to the ground and on average tend to be better below the knees than their taller counter parts.

I do agree that it would be good to have another taller, big bodied mid for stoppages. We look really good with Roughy at centre clearances as a rover when he could put on a block for Rioli or Mitchell to swoop on the loose ball. He's also strong enough to stop opposition big bodied mids when they get the tap, extract the ball from them and get the handball or kick off to one of our guys.

Good versions of these type of players are fairly rare and are expensive in free agency. It might be worth identifying a young, mid-size (~190cm) defender from another team that can slot into our midfield. I don't know anything about Nick Haynes (GWS, pick #7 2011 ND, 192cm/87kg) other than what I can see from his profile on the GWS website (can play through midfield, good agility, aerobic capacity, running ability and overhead mark) but he may be a possibility if he doesn't cement his place in their team or he wants to return home at the end of his contract. He may be a soft squib for all I know so maybe not a good fit but it's these young, fringe players from other teams that we ought to be in the ear of. Much cheaper than throwing the farm at Mundy, Gibbs and Goddard types.

Yeah obviously this discussion is hampered by a lack of accurate data! Totally agree with having a mix of player heights and weights etc. just think our young group has too many short guys and we will have a gap that needs filling.


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[Jiggystoon]

I liked this also. No sooking or hard feeling like you see with some guys out there. Played hard and made life a bitch for the Geelong players then after the game he could look Selwood in the eye and shake hands with a big smile on his dial. Seems to be a really balanced kid.

View attachment 52937

Have to agree with that, there would be some respect there from Selwood as well, think Langers is going to be a very good and popular player for the Hawks

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[detox]

I don't buy the whole tall clearance mid advantage. Freo have tall clearance players and our mids beat theirs.

Pendlebury and Judd are effective clearance mids not because they are tall but because they are gun players. Mitchell and Diesel are short, and are/were also very effective clearance mids.

Footy smarts and skill trump all.

Also the way the game is going, clarko obviously thinks that pace and supreme endurance is the most important qualities. Picking up 2 beep test record breakers in the last few years is no coincidence.

 

[cryptor]

I don't buy the whole tall clearance mid advantage. Freo have tall clearance players and our mids beat theirs.

Pendlebury and Judd are effective clearance mids not because they are tall but because they are gun players. Mitchell and Diesel are short, and are/were also very effective clearance mids.

Footy smarts and skill trump all.

Also the way the game is going, clarko obviously thinks that pace and supreme endurance is the most important qualities. Picking up 2 beep test record breakers in the last few years is no coincidence.

This is true. But there is potential that our next gen of slight mids could get monstered at clearances through strength if they can't get their hands on the ball first to run it out with speed. What we need is a role player who may not be a great extractor himself but is strong enough to block opposition big mids from getting to the ball to allow our smaller ones to get a clearer run at it and can also stop them with a bone crunching tackle if they do get it. If they're also good at winning contested ball then that's great too. But the better they are the higher the cost to get/keep them.

I agree with the premise that the game is heading towards pace and, in particular endurance. Big bodies will still need to be there for support though.

 

[Brishawk]

I don't buy the whole tall clearance mid advantage. Freo have tall clearance players and our mids beat theirs.

Pendlebury and Judd are effective clearance mids not because they are tall but because they are gun players. Mitchell and Diesel are short, and are/were also very effective clearance mids.

Footy smarts and skill trump all.

Also the way the game is going, clarko obviously thinks that pace and supreme endurance is the most important qualities. Picking up 2 beep test record breakers in the last few years is no coincidence.

Taller mids have several advantages at the clearances but also around the ground. One of the ways opposition players quell the influence of Mitchell is to push him close to the contest so that any tap that doesn't go straight down goes over his head. Tall midfielders can push right in on the contest and take the ball out of the air more easily because they are too tall for the ball to carry over their head on a normal tap. We combated this tactic in the grand final by sending mitch into that space drawing Crowley in as well and thus denying Freo their normal tactics. IT was good coaching by Clarko but in no way did being short act as any sort of advantage. Mitch rarely got a touch. When bigger mids move through the contest they have a larger area in which the ball can drop and they take possession of it. When taller mids win the ball they can hold it above their heads and dispose of the ball more easily than shorter players who are more likely to be wrapped up in a tackle and dragged to the ground. So taller mids can stand closer to the contest (thus being first to the ball), cover a larger area and can dispose of it more easily by hand than shorter mids. That is pretty much the basis in which Watson has forged a career (that and injecting peptides). It is also the reason we play Roughy in the middle. He stops taller mids having an advantage over our shooter players. At every centre clearance these days we have at least one player over 185cm in their. We would rarely if ever play all short mids.

The other area in which taller mids provide an advantage is overhead marking. Fyfe generated several shots on goal in the grand final through pushing forward and taking marks. His opponent just could not go with him in the air. Watson takes marks around the ground and up forward. Similarly Pendlebury, Kennedy et el are strong overhead. Geelong mids were able to take several marks against shorter hawk players during the match on Monday. Conceding marks to midfielders really hurts your chances of winning games of footy. Not saying we want all tall players but you cannot expect a team of short mids won't suffer.

 

[Hodgepodge]

20 disposals, 4 clearances, 8 tackles, 1 goal assist, and kept Trent Cotchin quiet too. Gun.

 

[cryptor]

20 disposals, 4 clearances, 8 tackles, 1 goal assist, and kept Trent Cotchin quiet too. Gun.

Will be interesting to see if we use both Langford and Shiels to shut down Selwood and Johnson in round 22.

 

[jiphoc]

20 disposals, 4 clearances, 8 tackles, 1 goal assist, and kept Trent Cotchin quiet too. Gun.

He is getting better and better every week. At this rate with no injuries I cannot see Sewell getting a start in the side as I see Langers and Sewell as playing for the one spot

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Another solid game from Will.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

Is cementing his spot definitely. Really solid again today... Sewell becoming a distant memory?

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[Davo23]

Will be good.

 

[cryptor]

Is cementing his spot definitely. Really solid again today... Sewell becoming a distant memory?

KOLOKOTRONIS

It's a good position to be in. I sincerely hope that if Sewell makes it back into the team that it's because his form is better than guys like Langford, Hallahan and Simpkin.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

It's a good position to be in. I sincerely hope that if Sewell makes it back into the team that it's because his form is better than guys like Langford, Hallahan and Simpkin.

Agreed definitely...

I can't see Sewell making it this season

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[cryptor]

Agreed definitely...

I can't see Sewell making it this season

KOLOKOTRONIS

It's good the younger guys have stepped up and we're 5-1. Sewell can take his time recovering from that hammy rather than being rushed back in. It will be incredibly tough for him to get back into the team but I'm certain he won't end the season wondering if he could've tried harder. I think he's contracted until the end of 2015 too, so hopefully we haven't seen the end of him just yet.

 

[MightyHawks]

Will be interesting to see if we use both Langford and Shiels to shut down Selwood and Johnson in round 22.

I think we need to try it for a quarter in round 22