Will Soccer ever take over AFL?

[kaypee]

A league is like the nbl. Its not the best standard in the world for the particular sport. Therefore anyone who attends A-leauge games has an EPL, spanish or italtian team they support, which is far better viewing.

Young sportsmen with any talent are potched by the AFL with promises of better opportunity and a bigger likely hood of making a career in sport. Young Australian soccer players that are any good soon leave for overseas .

Personally I can't stand the A-league, It's just sh*t, and whats the story with the heart? Are they gunna divide the victory supporter base in two? Anyone who cares about soccer in victoria already follows victory, will a new team suddenly create 20,000 more supporters?

some of those shots on goal in that phoenix match were certainly amusing. is fifa thinking about expanding the net again to lure the yanks? hope so for the a-league's sake

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

What gives you the right to say they have no culture?

Because we dont have any in this country, unless you count meat pies, thongs and the hills hoist. And whatever culture we do have, i.e that brought in by immigrants, is looked upon with disdain by many.

 

[realfootball]

some of those shots on goal in that phoenix match were certainly amusing. is fifa thinking about expanding the net again to lure the yanks? hope so for the a-league's sake

I wouldn't be surprised if the NZ team gets the boot, finally. It hasn't worked, and the afc president is not happy about a team from anothert country playing in a domestic comp. I dare say that quite a few people who follow the game closely would be OK with Perth getting the boot too. But it's a franchise system, so as long as any club is supported financially, they will be retained. People go on about the A-league being broke blah blah blah, but it's the business model largely protects clubs. The FFA have agreed to manage all clubs as a backstop if necessary for the first five years (which did happen with Glory), and there is definately no shortage of consortiums for franchises willing to put there hand up.

The standard is not great though, player wise and referees. I would say it is worse than 2 years ago.

 

[The Cotch]

What's culture got to do with the fact soccer is dead boring?

 

[kaypee]

Because we dont have any in this country, unless you count meat pies, thongs and the hills hoist. And whatever culture we do have, i.e that brought in by immigrants, is looked upon with disdain by many.

dude, see a psycholgist or get out of the 1970s. even john pilger doesn't exhibit this level of self-loathing. So what country has the kind of "culture" that you seek?

 

[realfootball]

nsw derby...11000 nuff said

I think it was being a bit harsh on the central coast crowd. 11K. Sure it's not great, but Gosford LGA has a population of just 164000. Crowd wise, taking into account population, they pull well above their weight. They will never pull big crowds (in any sport), the area just doesn't have a big enough population. I was at that game, and the atmosphere was still better than, as usual, any swans home game in recent memory.

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

dude, see a psycholgist or get out of the 1970s. even john pilger doesn't exhibit this level of self-loathing. So what country has the kind of "culture" that you seek?

Not seeking anything, thats not my agenda here. What im trying to say is that nations where soccer fans fight one another do so because the clubs they support represent each section of their societies, there rivalries are off field just as much, if not more so, as onfield - supporters spilt based on cultural differences, differences which have been occuring for 100s of years. This is the cause of the trouble you see at games, not the sport of soccer itself - its merely a vehicle used to exercise the rivalry. As I said, the same sort of culture exists at basketball matches in Europe, a high scoring sport - blows the ridiculous "fans riot at the soccer because they are bored" argument out of the water. As I also said, if AFL somehow took off in these nations, which by the way any sane person wouldnt think so, the same would occur.

 

[kaypee]

Not seeking anything, thats not my agenda here. What im trying to say is that nations where soccer fans fight one another do so because the clubs they support represent each section of their societies, there rivalries are off field just as much, if not more so, as onfield - supporters spilt based on cultural differences, differences which have been occuring for 100s of years. This is the cause of the trouble you see at games, not the sport of soccer itself - its merely a vehicle used to exercise the rivalry. As I said, the same sort of culture exists at basketball matches in Europe, a high scoring sport - blows the ridiculous "fans riot at the soccer because they are bored" argument out of the water. As I also said, if AFL somehow took off in these nations, which by the way any sane person wouldnt think so, the same would occur.

I've got no opinion on rioting and sport. it was you who said Australia's culture amounted to hills hoists. i disagree with that and i quietly think one of the great things about australian football is that it is presents a kind of ideal Australia, but then again i mostly watch australian football in the hope that derek kickett will make a comeback

 

[kaypee]

I think it was being a bit harsh on the central coast crowd. 11K. Sure it's not great, but Gosford LGA has a population of just 164000. Crowd wise, taking into account population, they pull well above their weight. They will never pull big crowds (in any sport), the area just doesn't have a big enough population. I was at that game, and the atmosphere was still better than, as usual, any swans home game in recent memory.[/quote
straight back at ya: Crowd-wise, taking into account population, the AFL is the most wildly successfull comp of all time and the fed government should fund its expansion to save heathens from the purgatory that is other codes

 

[gostk86]

crowds for aleague are well down and they have no competition

socceroos are keeping the sport alive in australia once again

 

[STC]

Soccer is a bandwagon sport for many at the moment. Australians will jump on whatever's doing well and jump off just as quickly. The underdog story of the 2006 World Cup was an incredible journey which we all rode, but now that it's 2 years gone by many have given up on it already. If Australia qualify for the 2010 World Cup and do well, it will probably rise again, and perhaps even sustain its form.

Overtaking is still an interesting way to say it. There's nothing to say that soccer can't simply compete with AFL, as rugby league has. However, with crowds the way they are now when soccer has no competition except one test match per state, one wonders how much worse they'd be if soccer was on during winter.

 

[realfootball]

I think it was being a bit harsh on the central coast crowd. 11K. Sure it's not great, but Gosford LGA has a population of just 164000. Crowd wise, taking into account population, they pull well above their weight. They will never pull big crowds (in any sport), the area just doesn't have a big enough population. I was at that game, and the atmosphere was still better than, as usual, any swans home game in recent memory.[/quote
straight back at ya: Crowd-wise, taking into account population, the AFL is the most wildly successfull comp of all time and the fed government should fund its expansion to save heathens from the purgatory that is other codes

It's a fair point, and I have seen first hand how AFL has made inroads in other markets, and it could be argued that as the AFL has done a good job, then money for further expansion is justified. Growing up as a kid, I never had even heard of the game. You would be lucky to get the VFL results in the fine print in the newspaper in Sydney. NEVER was any highlights shown on TV. These days channel 7 and 10 in Sydney at least , in ,my view, are over the top with their promotions. Everyone knows about the swans (albeit not everyone is interested). But to some degree, the hype is there.

But, and a big but, this is the point of the whole argument. Why is the fed coughing up for soccer? Surely It must be agreed that there are some powerful persuaders at the FFA, and the govt clearly sees a potential for soccer in Australia, and sees it as being vitally important to the sporting national interest. This is what other sports will be up against in the future, this kind of backing for soccer. It will definately have an effect.

 

[realfootball]

However, with crowds the way they are now when soccer has no competition except one test match per state, one wonders how much worse they'd be if soccer was on during winter.

Remember though, it's not just about the a-league, the question is about the sport of soccer. There are so many factors ....participation, interest, attendances not only at the a-league but at thr ACL, the socceroos (at the Asian cup, and world cup) etc.

 

[vinnie]

AFL crowds are falling - they are only increasing for five clubs. The reality is, AFL crowds in Gold Coast are a complete joke - AFL can't get over 10K - you get more at the local netball.

Sydney games have crowds that are weak and soft and show AFL far from being a dominant code. Fancy getting 17,000 to a Sydney home final just a few months ago.

Melbourne and North are on AFL lifelines - if they were'nt on welfare they'd be dead. Not great for the sport that's supposed to be dominant even in its own city. Crowds for these teams are a joke, especially at MCG games. They need to play their games at South Melbourne Hella soccer stadium for some atmosphere so it doesn't feel like being in a cancer ward. I'll supply the flares to liven up the crowd.

Port Adelaide has been a failure, crowds are falling to zero in a few years. Can't even get above 25K for a town that's supposed to be AFL-centric. Adelaide United gets better coverage.

Add to that Brisbane and Sydney memberships are falling, and falling fast. This is the AFL bandwagon effect after their Grand Final wins a few years back. With the credit crisis that's undermined the credit default swap market and increased cost of corporate funding on the balance sheet, see their memberships fall even further next year.

TV ratings in Sydney and Brisbane are embarressing for any AFL fan. Iron Chef on SBS outrates a Sydney home game, which rates fifth! What a classic! No wonder the FTA channels have dropped live AFL coverage in NSW/QLD - they know it doesn't rate and have swapped to something that people care to watch.

So where does this leave AFL? Well its continuing to grow in Vic. Big Deal. But outside Vic and possibly WA, AFL is a sad tale of failed growth, despite pumping millions.

Add to this the fact that AFL draft is taking talent away from young guys who are good enough to be socceroos. The AFL is the reason we don't have a world class soccer team that can beat German, Spain, Brazil and Italy.

 

[Hoops]

AFL crowds are falling - they are only increasing for five clubs. The reality is, AFL crowds in Gold Coast are a complete joke - AFL can't get over 10K - you get more at the local netball.

Sydney games have crowds that are weak and soft and show AFL far from being a dominant code. Fancy getting 17,000 to a Sydney home final just a few months ago.

Melbourne and North are on AFL lifelines - if they were'nt on welfare they'd be dead. Not great for the sport that's supposed to be dominant even in its own city. Crowds for these teams are a joke, especially at MCG games. They need to play their games at South Melbourne Hella soccer stadium for some atmosphere so it doesn't feel like being in a cancer ward. I'll supply the flares to liven up the crowd.

Port Adelaide has been a failure, crowds are falling to zero in a few years. Can't even get above 25K for a town that's supposed to be AFL-centric. Adelaide United gets better coverage.

Add to that Brisbane and Sydney memberships are falling, and falling fast. This is the AFL bandwagon effect after their Grand Final wins a few years back. With the credit crisis that's undermined the credit default swap market and increased cost of corporate funding on the balance sheet, see their memberships fall even further next year.

TV ratings in Sydney and Brisbane are embarressing for any AFL fan. Iron Chef on SBS outrates a Sydney home game, which rates fifth! What a classic! No wonder the FTA channels have dropped live AFL coverage in NSW/QLD - they know it doesn't rate and have swapped to something that people care to watch.

So where does this leave AFL? Well its continuing to grow in Vic. Big Deal. But outside Vic and possibly WA, AFL is a sad tale of failed growth, despite pumping millions.

Add to this the fact that AFL draft is taking talent away from young guys who are good enough to be socceroos. The AFL is the reason we don't have a world class soccer team that can beat German, Spain, Brazil and Italy.

You're a sad, strange little man

 

[gostk86]

hey vinnie how many turned upto roar game last night

 

[cos789]

Why is the fed coughing up for soccer? Surely It must be agreed that there are some powerful persuaders at the FFA,

It's called politics and lobyists .

and the govt clearly sees a potential for soccer in Australia,.

A successful AL would be one potential .
Do you see beyond that ?

and sees it as being vitally important to the sporting national interest.

I don't see one reason for it being "vital".

This is what other sports will be up against in the future, this kind of backing for soccer. It will definately have an effect.

Australia has three very successful winter sporting codes that are already immensely and vitally important to the nation of Australia .By implication , dismantling any one of those structures to build soccer would result in net negative loss to the Australian and world sporting landscape .Those codes are present an important international focus .One could argue that the RUWC is more important to Australia because it is obtainable .The RL WC is important and provides great exposure for Australia .Even Australian Football draws great crowds for it's matches .If Australia promoted it's International Cup for Australian Football imagine it's potential - a world cup devoted completely to an Australian indiginous product .

.

 

[Football_Fan]

It's called politics and lobyists .





Australia has three very successful winter sporting codes that are already immensely and vitally important to the nation of Australia .By implication , dismantling any one of those structures to build soccer would result in net negative loss to the Australian and world sporting landscape .Those codes are present an important international focus .One could argue that the RUWC is more important to Australia because it is obtainable .The RL WC is important and provides great exposure for Australia .Even Australian Football draws great crowds for it's matches .If Australia promoted it's International Cup for Australian Football imagine it's potential - a world cup devoted completely to an Australian indiginous product .

.

oh no no no no. Wrong on so many levels. We shouldnt just maintain the status quo for the sake of it. If a sport is more appealling then another then why shouldnt it increase in popularity.

Soccer is the most accessible sport to play. It is easier to get a game of soccer going then any other sport. You can play soccer in a confirned area (cant play AFL in a confied area) , on concrete (cant play Rugby League on concrete), with 1, 2 or 3 players. 1 player can juggle a soccer ball - kick it against a wall - cant be done with an egg shaped ball.

It is not bogged down by rules (hello Union). All u need is a ball (or something resembling a ball) and off you go. This is why u see kids playing soccer in the streets, but rarely say Union. The other codes dont lend themselves easily to a local kick around.

As for your assertions that Rugby League World cup brings Oz international converage - what a joke! Soccer brings more coverage to Aus then all the other codes combined (then times by a factor of 7!). Did you know they even had to get Aussie players to play for other nations just to make up the numbers!

The Rugby League world Cup was a farce. A back yeard tournament dressed up as a World Cup. Virtually no one Outside Aus gave a toss about it. They boasted 10 million people (cumulatively) watched the entire event. Yet Adelaide United Soccer Champions League final against Gamba was watched by 200 million people. And that was just 1 game! So you can see why the Govt has thrown so much money to the sport. No other sport can get within a country mile of the international exposure soccer brings to Australia, nor match the potential for relatiosnhip building.

Kevin Rudd himself said - the amount of exposure Soccer gives Australia is worth more then any multi million dollar advertising campaign. It should come as no surprise then, that the World Cup is twice the size of the Olympic Games. Australias involvement in the last World Cup gave us more Exposure then anything we have ever done in our history (including hosting the Olympics!). 700 million people wathced Australi play Brazil in the last world Cup. Only 3 million people watched the AFL Grand Final.

Union claims to be oplayed by 100 nations - but in 90% of those countires it is a small amatuer sport, played by few people. In most those countries, people couldnt tell you the first thing about the game.
It is a game of the elite in Aus, England and South Africa- not the peoples game. Yet with only one seventh the juniours of Soccer, smaller tv ratings and smaller international crowds - they still have a whinge that soccer got the latest grant.

AFL is Australias most popular game. The best run sport in the country. But internationally it has little to offer - despite the delusional ramblings of many AFL aligned media. It will be hard for the sport to get a toe hold anywhere, especially in areas where soccer (a more accessible game) is king. It may find a niche - but thats it. Soccer is the international language - and the Rudd gevernement has realised this. Even in Oz - it can spread at less of a cost then AFL's venture say into West Sydney.

 

[Football_Fan]

P.S. - for the record - the above may is meant to add a bit of perspective. Personally I think AFL is far and away the best run sport in the country. I grew up in a Rugby League region - and to me AFL is a far better product and game to watch.

While it is a model of prefessionalism, Rugby League seems almost stuck in the 70's. The middle class of Sydney have moved away from the game (many NRL clubs now inflate their crowd figures just to look respectable).

The middle class have moved towards soccer and AFL especially young families and kids. In the West of Sydney - the interest in soccer is immense - all it needs is an A-league team promoted correclty. AFL i think shoudl concentrateon the Gold Coast and Tassie for what its worth.

 

[cos789]

If a sport is more appealling then another then why shouldnt it increase in popularity.

Exactly . If it appeals - let it grow - naturally , not artificially .

Soccer is ........

Has a lot going for it - so do all the other codes .
Frankly it'd be a boring place with just soccer .
We don't say let's reduce the Olympics to just the 100ms because
it's the best and forget the rest .

The Rugby League world Cup was a farce...

You bag all the other codes - yet they bring the most to Australia .
If Australia was to accept soccer and forget the rest then Australian would be a minor player in the world stage .The RUWC brings wealth to Audstralia so does the RLWC and has the potential to be much bigger .Australian Football has the most to offer the world - unfortunately for the greater part the world is wrapped up in it's own sports . Wouldn't it be great if Gaelic Football or American Football was spread over the globe as well .There certainly there is enough room for them if soccer didn't try and choke them to death in a paranoid knee jerk reaction to their position.
.

 

[randyzany]

What about this argument. Soccer is inferior because it only ranks 3rd or 4th in terms of following for football codes in a country that has large exposure to 4 codes of football.

Or it could be because soccer is perceived as a recent interloper sport brought over by foreigners. And your assertion that’s it ranks 3 or 4th is not entirely correctly. Generally speaking soccer is ahead of both Thuby (union, league) and footy in the areas where these 2 sports are not already the number 1 code. So in NSW soccer has more support than Footy and the same holds true for Thugby in Victoria.

Is more logical than the argument that soccer is great because it's the most popular game in the world where it's the only sport that the mainstream have been exposed to.

That doesn’t sound right either. I’m come from an “ethnic” background, name South America, and I can safely say I’m more in touch with the views of foreigners than your average anglo aussie. The popularity of soccer in various regions of the world cannot be dismissed by ignorantly saying they lack exposure to other sports. They’re well aware of other sports but in their opinion other games (including aussie rules which I have discussed with people overseas) do not hold a candle to soccer and been rejected as lesser sports. Strangely enough the same attitude certain anglos have about soccer, what a coincidence. NOT! LMAO. It’s delusional and presumptuous to think people overseas will come flocking to Aussie Rules once they’re exposed to it. It’s hilarious actually. lol

 

[randyzany]

It has been said many times , soccer wouldn't exist if our game had been invented at the same place and time as.....ugh....sokkah.
will keep up the good work...Sokkah fan..
The most watched sport?....the poor buggers don't know what they are missing, hopefully for them they catch onto the greatest spectacle sport "Oz Rules Football."

PS do you think sokkah is a better spectacle?

Thugby was invented at roughly the same time as soccer and it would be lucky to have 1/20th of the world wide support of soccer. The reason I point this out is because in discussions I've had with people overseas it is the "physical" aspect of aussie rules that is often compared to thugby.

One of their first reaction is that only dolts, imbeciles and buffoons with no obvioius talent or skill would be inclined to play such a messy fumbling thuggish game. They don't see the tackles and shepherds as tactics of a MAN'S GAME, rather they see it as a coward's game where violent acts by hacks are tolerated all the time. See the cultural perspective and where you are raised can all the make the difference to how you perceive something.

 

[Kapow!!!]

If Soccer Australia was smart they'd target Summer. Cricket participation levels have been decreasing rapidly over the last decade and crowds going down. Move the local leagues to summer and it would be the new ultimate summer sport within the next decade. Footy fans are far too stubborn and proud to ever fully change to Soccer but a summer game would be a huge success (strewth even I'd probably play).

That's if the FFA are smart

 

[rooboy]

Thugby was invented at roughly the same time as soccer and it would be lucky to have 1/20th of the world wide support of soccer. The reason I point this out is because in discussions I've had with people overseas it is the "physical" aspect of aussie rules that is often compared to thugby.

One of their first reaction is that only dolts, imbeciles and buffoons with no obvioius talent or skill would be inclined to play such a messy fumbling thuggish game. They don't see the tackles and shepherds as tactics of a MAN'S GAME, rather they see it as a coward's game where violent acts by hacks are tolerated all the time. See the cultural perspective and where you are raised can all the make the difference to how you perceive something.

And yet ,my South American friend, Argentina doesn't seem to mind Rugby.And why is it that soccer fans are so quick to brand anyone who plays AFL, RL, Rugby as dolts, thugs, buffoons etc with no skills or talent. Why the need to put down other sportsmen?
Perhaps you and your friends should take the field in any of those three games and find out for yourself, whether it takes guts and skill to play them

 

[Royal Flush]

I'm not sure if soccer will take over AFL, but they definitely could.

I'm from the old school NSL days and ever since my club dropped from the main league I stopped following an NSL club since the late 80's. Always a fan of Europe clubs and the Aussie national team.

However I watched on Free to Air TV great interest Adelaide Uniteds two games in the world club championship. Their game last night was pretty good. I always take an interest in how A league clubs are going in the ACL.

I think the greatest advantage that the A league has over any Australian footy code is it's continuous improvement and competitiveness and the fact that it competes in the Asian Champions league.