Play Nice with the 2016 premiership, where can the Bulldogs get to now?

[Testekill]

I think you underestimate the bandwaggoning effect, so the resilience factor is exaggerated by you I think.
Anorher thing I noticed was the number of twenty somethinhs at spotless in raptures becuase they'd been waiting so long. Dont get how that works.

Buddy, a lot of those 20 somethings would have been supporting since 93/94. That's still 20+ years of supporting us but I suppose someone like you wouldn't understand.

 

[Bokonon_]

Buddy, a lot of those 20 somethings would have been supporting since 93/94. That's still 20+ years of supporting us but I suppose someone like you wouldn't understand.

Again that's the problem. Anything not deferencial is immediately attacked and you get personal. Lets be frank you're not a big club, nothing wrong with that, but you're in a really weak position to withstand the dislike that will come.

 

[Sedat!]

Let me get this right. You're saying if we didn't beat you twice (by 57 points and by 25 points) we wouldn't have finished top 4 - but Geelong is a weak side? You seem confused.

Geelong got to play both Essendon and Brisbane twice last season, while some clubs (Dogs included) only played these teams once each. The vagaries of the fixture should really be considered when talking about the final H&A ladder.

 

[Sedat!]

Fact: Your club stole my clubs money (under the guise of equalisation) to keep you afloat because your supporters didn't turn up to games. Why should we finance you?

Happy to provide you with a tax invoice so you can claim this in your next tax return. As for your last question, you are willing signatories to the rules and regulations of the AFL Commission, who are in charge of allocating revenue generated to wherever the hell they choose. Your club has therefore tacitly approved the equalisation money that has been delivered to the kennel over the years - I suggest you might want to direct your anger at this situation to your own club board for willingly allowing this great travesty to occur.

Your posts have been very amusing in this thread - keep up the good work.

 

[HolyWars]

I'd half agree half disagree with this one.

Hawks fans I find to be generally a lot more pleasant to deal with.

Bulldogs fans on the other hand.........for the most part, absolute D/Hs in my eyes.

And at least we waited until going b2b before we hit full-on flog mode. I think we were pretty humble after 2013 considering we had lost 2012, it was just one big relief to get the flag. In saying that, I haven't really been around dogs supporters of late, so I can't really comment as to what levels of flog they're at.

They're a young side so hopefully they don't do what we did in 2008. I don't think that will happen and they'll be there abouts next year (and for a few years).

 

[Bokonon_]

And at least we waited until going b2b before we hit full-on flog mode. I think we were pretty humble after 2013 considering we had lost 2012, it was just one big relief to get the flag. In saying that, I haven't really been around dogs supporters of late, so I can't really comment as to what levels of flog they're at.

They're a young side so hopefully they don't do what we did in 2008. I don't think that will happen and they'll be there abouts next year (and for a few years).

Yeah it wasn't the same from Hawks supporters. Some arrogance sure, but not the same need to denigrate others on the whole. If you do that ultimately you just belittle your own achievments.

 

[Pugz89]

The Doggies won the flag from 7th place. That's very rare. Chances are next year's flag will be won by a team in the top 4. I see Sydney, GWS, Geelong as top 4 sides. Will Hawthorn drop out? Will Freo bounce back? West Coast and Adelaide will be strong again. Doggies might be in the mix. But regardless of the subjective assessment of each team just on probability they are unlikely to repeat next year.

Geelong in the top four mix is an interesting call. Lost a lot of experience and quality this year. Keen to see how it impacts the team going forward.

 

[Testekill]

Geelong in the top four mix is an interesting call. Lost a lot of experience and quality this year. Keen to how it impacts the team going forward.

Yeah, Boris & Bartel are massive hits experience wise.

 

[Dazb86]

Yeah, Boris & Bartel are massive hits experience wise.

Not sure losing Bartel will hurt at all.

 

[Gibbke]

The Dogs were 4-5 against the top eight sides going into the finals, which they then of course improved to 8-5. They lost four games at Docklands. They won one more H&A match in 2016 then in 2015, and played from elimination both times. A binding truth of the top eight finals system is that you need to be top four to win the flag, and even make the PF, and the blip that has been the last three seasons with North and Footscray will right itself most likely sooner than later...

The thread question is answered very simply. The Dogs managed to snag a premiership without being convincing at any stage in the H&A, a finals series to dream of, made their own luck, after really proving nothing in two years to preempt it leading up to the bounce at Subiaco in week 1. The challenge in 2017 will be all about legitimacy - they need to finish in the top four, improve their WL record, and back it up again. It's not a simple equation. A few players coming back doesn't necessarily equate to improvement - ask West Coast's back line how that works, and be prepared for a rise up the ladder for Essendon that won't be anywhere near as impressive as many think. They also have a style of play which relies upon enthusiasm and speed - it took a lot of teams by surprise, and naturally every other team is analysing the Dogs' success. No novelties next year...

Without that top four finish, even if they win back to back, there would be nothing really legendary about the WB outside the stories of sheer happiness for their supporters, and the enjoyable style of play they put out. The only thing they own right now is 2016, and they had no decent claim on that for most of it. There is no aura, no onfield history, no legacy, and nothing for other teams to "fear"...they're just yet another good footy team and the current tough assignment. Adelaide won back to back as well on the back of TWO arduously successful finals runs from 4-5, and people have previously been quick to denounce their achievement - there would be no difference here...they're both great stories, but as we speak in 2016, neither is a "Great Team"...

Dogs have serious work to do...I'm not convinced they are good enough for back to back, but I'm also not convinced anyone's good enough to be confidently predicted to wrest it off them...GWS seem to have the on paper cred and a great spot in the queue, but there are a couple of very combat-hardened organisations running around who could be chasing some redemption and know how to go about getting it, especially the one which lost the GF. I wouldn't be writing off Geelong, either - they know just as well as the rest of us that a season can't revolve around two players, so there will be some face slapping at Kardinia. Us, not likely, but hey, it's us...!...who knows...

 

[Outback Footy]

Yeah it wasn't the same from Hawks supporters. Some arrogance sure, but not the same need to denigrate others on the whole. If you do that ultimately you just belittle your own achievments.

Sorry mate, you literally cannot compare the fans of a side which hasn't won in 62 years, hasn't even been in a GF in 55 years with a team which has seen success in every decade since 1961. A club with 13 premierships and a club with 1, no comparison.

The vast bulk of our fans (myself included) have only ever seen failure. The massive ourtpouring of pent up frustration is entirely understandable. Yes some of our fans are getting carried away, but I completely understand why. Weve gone from a (in most cases) lifelong famine to a seat at the table. We are going to enjoy this, please be patient with those of us who get carried away, but don't say were all nobs coz hawks fans don't celebrate quite so intensely, they haven't suffered through decades of failure, no comparison.

And I do understand its hard for a GWS fan to understand the depth of feeling were showing. I live in rural NSW and love what GWS are doing for football in this state (much more than the swans ever did), but you really don't have a serious fan base yet.

I was at Spotless for the final this year and was in tears at the end, absolutely loved the win, and I also loved our fans emotion and energy owning your stadium. That wasnt because we outnumbered you, its because our fans cared a whole lot more. With time I hope you guys reach the level of support that was on show that night (and a week later), but knowing Sydney I doubt it, even the swans don't have it anymore (and they've got 142 years of history).

 

[Dogs till i die]

The Dogs were 4-5 against the top eight sides going into the finals, which they then of course improved to 8-5. They lost four games at Docklands. They won one more H&A match in 2016 then in 2015, and played from elimination both times. A binding truth of the top eight finals system is that you need to be top four to win the flag, and even make the PF, and the blip that has been the last three seasons with North and Footscray will right itself most likely sooner than later...

The thread question is answered very simply. The Dogs managed to snag a premiership without being convincing at any stage in the H&A, a finals series to dream of, made their own luck, after really proving nothing in two years to preempt it leading up to the bounce at Subiaco in week 1. The challenge in 2017 will be all about legitimacy - they need to finish in the top four, improve their WL record, and back it up again. It's not a simple equation. A few players coming back doesn't necessarily equate to improvement - ask West Coast's back line how that works, and be prepared for a rise up the ladder for Essendon that won't be anywhere near as impressive as many think. They also have a style of play which relies upon enthusiasm and speed - it took a lot of teams by surprise, and naturally every other team is analysing the Dogs' success. No novelties next year...

Without that top four finish, even if they win back to back, there would be nothing really legendary about the WB outside the stories of sheer happiness for their supporters, and the enjoyable style of play they put out. The only thing they own right now is 2016, and they had no decent claim on that for most of it. There is no aura, no onfield history, no legacy, and nothing for other teams to "fear"...they're just yet another good footy team and the current tough assignment. Adelaide won back to back as well on the back of TWO arduously successful finals runs from 4-5, and people have previously been quick to denounce their achievement - there would be no difference here...they're both great stories, but as we speak in 2016, neither is a "Great Team"...

Dogs have serious work to do...I'm not convinced they are good enough for back to back, but I'm also not convinced anyone's good enough to be confidently predicted to wrest it off them...GWS seem to have the on paper cred and a great spot in the queue, but there are a couple of very combat-hardened organisations running around who could be chasing some redemption and know how to go about getting it, especially the one which lost the GF. I wouldn't be writing off Geelong, either - they know just as well as the rest of us that a season can't revolve around two players, so there will be some face slapping at Kardinia. Us, not likely, but hey, it's us...!...who knows...

Good post Gibbke, I agree there are still questions about the Dogs and whether we can sustain our momentum. Your talk of no "aura" and "on field history" reminds me so much of the Hawks in 08 after your decade and a half out of contention. You emerged quickly with some young stars (Buddy) and some older types (Crawford) and took people by surprise - no "aura" or "onfield history" with that team, just a very, very good footy team on the rise. Aura and on field history is built with sustained success and of course we are only at the starting line.

You went on to create that and became a feared and powerful team and i'm hoping we can do the same. Only time will tell. We are generally young with a lot left in the tank, and I'm very hopeful.

 

[Bokonon_]

Sorry mate, you literally cannot compare the fans of a side which hasn't won in 62 years, hasn't even been in a GF in 55 years with a team which has seen success in every decade since 1961. A club with 13 premierships and a club with 1, no comparison.

The vast bulk of our fans (myself included) have only ever seen failure. The massive ourtpouring of pent up frustration is entirely understandable. Yes some of our fans are getting carried away, but I completely understand why. Weve gone from a (in most cases) lifelong famine to a seat at the table. We are going to enjoy this, please be patient with those of us who get carried away, but don't say were all nobs coz hawks fans don't celebrate quite so intensely, they haven't suffered through decades of failure, no comparison.

And I do understand its hard for a GWS fan to understand the depth of feeling were showing. I live in rural NSW and love what GWS are doing for football in this state (much more than the swans ever did), but you really don't have a serious fan base yet.

I was at Spotless for the final this year and was in tears at the end, absolutely loved the win, and I also loved our fans emotion and energy owning your stadium. That wasnt because we outnumbered you, its because our fans cared a whole lot more. With time I hope you guys reach the level of support that was on show that night (and a week later), but knowing Sydney I doubt it, even the swans don't have it anymore (and they've got 142 years of history).

Sorry mate, you literally cannot compare the fans of a side which hasn't won in 62 years, hasn't even been in a GF in 55 years with a team which has seen success in every decade since 1961. A club with 13 premierships and a club with 1, no comparison.

The vast bulk of our fans (myself included) have only ever seen failure. The massive ourtpouring of pent up frustration is entirely understandable. Yes some of our fans are getting carried away, but I completely understand why. Weve gone from a (in most cases) lifelong famine to a seat at the table. We are going to enjoy this, please be patient with those of us who get carried away, but don't say were all nobs coz hawks fans don't celebrate quite so intensely, they haven't suffered through decades of failure, no comparison.

And I do understand its hard for a GWS fan to understand the depth of feeling were showing. I live in rural NSW and love what GWS are doing for football in this state (much more than the swans ever did), but you really don't have a serious fan base yet.

I was at Spotless for the final this year and was in tears at the end, absolutely loved the win, and I also loved our fans emotion and energy owning your stadium. That wasnt because we outnumbered you, its because our fans cared a whole lot more. With time I hope you guys reach the level of support twas on show that night (and a week later), but knowing Sydney I doubt it, even the swans don't have it anymore (and they've got 142 years of history).

And yet I did. Live with it. Your reasoning makes no sense to me.

 

[Dogs till i die]

And yet I did. Live with it. Your reasoning makes no sense to me.

You need to have walked a mile in our shoes to understand Wampeter.

 

[Geoff_ Miles7]

I reckon you should be looking for at least 3 flags in the next 5/6 years. The Bullies have an incredibly talented young list and play a revolutionary style of footy with elite handball and spread that is a level above pretty much every other team in it at the moment and given the age of most of your mids this should only improve in the next few years.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Not to mention extra money supplied by other clubs, a charmed fixture and having the umpires in your back pocket, oh and leeching off problem gamblers through pokies.[/QUOT
LOL!!!

 

[mikeg4]

I think you underestimate the bandwaggoning effect, so the resilience factor is exaggerated by you I think.
Anorher thing I noticed was the number of twenty somethinhs at spotless in raptures becuase they'd been waiting so long. Dont get how that works.

Its called being a fan of a team with history, families who have supported the same team for generations, and with the bulldogs being in your 20s can easily mean being to 6 losing preliminary finals.

 

[go you pups]

Its called being a fan of a team with history, families who have supported the same team for generations, and with the bulldogs being in your 20s can easily mean being to 6 losing preliminary finals.

Yep, I'm 28, starting watching the Dogs when I was 6 in 1994, went to my first game in 94 was Dogs vs Tiges at the G, went with my Dad, uncle and cousins (all Doggies on my paternal side).

Was there at 97, 08 and 09 prelims (was on spring family holidays to NSW in 98), 97 and 09 were particularly shattering. Old man is 60, he saw nothing but heartbreak til this year, same with a lot of other relatives.

 

[Bokonon_]

Its called being a fan of a team with history, families who have supported the same team for generations, and with the bulldogs being in your 20s can easily mean being to 6 losing preliminary finals.

I actually do get where you're coming from. You need to understand others will also reach conclusions based on their experience.

 

[Allan Shorty]

We won the flag!! The rest is noise.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Well you were well on the way to defeat when we played at Kardinia Park. Until Libba's injury he had Dangerfield well under control and Macrae had the measure of Selwood until his injury.

Geelong's top 4 finish was achieved due to in game injury to their opponents in a crucial game.

Bulldogs are better than Geelong as evidenced by the 2016 flag.

Bulldogs have scope to improve in 2017 with addition of Crameri and maturity of their existing players.

Geelong have weakened their list with retirement of Enright and Bartel and the trade of Caddy.

Bulldogs will finish ahead of Geelong in 2017 with ordinary luck.

The round 19 game was pretty even before the Bulldogs got any injuries. But I think Geelong would have still won given the round 13 win by 57 points that wasn't injury affected, and that the Doggies have not beaten Geelong since 2009. Geelong finished 2nd not 'top 4' and with a much higher % than the Doggies. The Doggies had a great finals series but let's not rewrite history that they dominated the home and away season.

We can only speculate about next season. No one has a crystal ball. This time last year you were predicting the 2016 ladder to finish as follows -

1 West Coast (Actual 6)
2 Collingwood (12)
3 North Melbourne (8)
4 Western Bulldogs (7)
5 Hawthorn (3)
6 GWS (4)
7 Port Adelaide (10)
8 Geelong (2)
9 Gold Coast (15)
10 Richmond (13)
11 Fremantle (16)
12 Adelaide (5)
13 Brisbane (17)
14 St Kilda (9)
15 Sydney (1)
16 Melbourne (11)
17 Carlton (14)
18 Essendon (18)


https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/posts/42761799/

 

[Bulldog Joe]

The round 19 game was pretty even before the Bulldogs got any injuries. But I think Geelong would have still won given the round 13 win by 57 points that wasn't injury affected, and that the Doggies have not beaten Geelong since 2009. Geelong finished 2nd not 'top 4' and with a much higher % than the Doggies. The Doggies had a great finals series but let's not rewrite history that they dominated the home and away season.

We can only speculate about next season. No one has a crystal ball. This time last year you were predicting the 2016 ladder to finish as follows -

1 West Coast (Actual 6)
2 Collingwood (12)
3 North Melbourne (8)
4 Western Bulldogs (7)
5 Hawthorn (3)
6 GWS (4)
7 Port Adelaide (10)
8 Geelong (2)
9 Gold Coast (15)
10 Richmond (13)
11 Fremantle (16)
12 Adelaide (5)
13 Brisbane (17)
14 St Kilda (9)
15 Sydney (1)
16 Melbourne (11)
17 Carlton (14)
18 Essendon (18)


https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/posts/42761799/

Interesting that you would go to so much trouble.

The round 13 game that "wasn't injury affected" we were without
Luke Dahlhaus, Easton Wood, Toby McLean, Tom Boyd, Jason Johannisen all of who were out of the side because of injury. Clay Smith had been absent all season from injury the previous year and we will ignore Murphy who never got back from his injury, as well as Koby Stevens who would have been there but for injury but was unable to reclaim a spot in the side.

We also had Joel Hamling and Zaine Cordy who were to come into our finals side.

So although we were not affected we were missing 8 of our subsequent premiership players.

In the round 19 game we were more than breaking even when Liberatore went down.

We were also without
Matthew Boyd, Dale Morris and Toby McLean on that day plus Dahlhaus and Stringer were resuming from injury.

As I said I am confident we will be ahead of Geelong, who have a tougher fixture for 2017.

 

[SwampCreature]

Any Hawthorn fan accusing dogs fans of ruining bigfooty is full of shit.

2008 is still the worst example of "poor winning" I have ever seen, followed closely by performances over the past few years. Tassie are a unique, terrible, awful beast.

Funnily enough, the worst poor-losing I have ever seen came in 2009, from the same club, the players, the supporters and especially the coach.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Without that top four finish, even if they win back to back, there would be nothing really legendary about the WB outside the stories of sheer happiness for their supporters, and the enjoyable style of play they put out. The only thing they own right now is 2016, and they had no decent claim on that for most of it. There is no aura, no onfield history, no legacy, and nothing for other teams to "fear"...

The Dogs finished 19-7, the same as Hawthorn in 2015.

As for 'fear' regardless of where the Dogs finish the home and away season I don't think anyone will be keen to play them in the finals after what they did this year

 

[Bokonon_]

The Dogs finished 19-7, the same as Hawthorn in 2015.

As for 'fear' regardless of where the Dogs finish the home and away season I don't think anyone will be keen to play them in the finals after what they did this year

Actually we will be. Club policy to aim for the best.