Won A Brownlow Medal but not club B & F in the same year

[HG Pennypacker]

The 1995 pre-count Brownlow Medal favourites

3-1 - Wayne Carey
4-1 - Wayne Campbell
10-1 - Peter Matera
12-1 - James Hird
12-1 - Craig Bradley
15-1 - Garry Hocking
17-1 - Darren Jarman
21-1 - Michael Long
23-1 - Wayne Schwass
25-1 - Paul Kelly

Ratten didn't poll a single vote in 1995 but wasn't in the top 10 fancies. Ratten only polled 1 Brownlow vote in his first 6 seasons (97 games) at Carlton.

AFL Tables - 1995 Brownlow Medal

1995 Carlton Best and Fairest Votes

1 - Brett Ratten - 174 Votes
2 - Craig Bradley - 128 Votes
3 - Stephen Silvagni - 118 Votes
4 - Earl Spalding - 117 Votes
5 - Fraser Brown - 105 Votes
6 - Anthony Koutoufides - 101 Votes
6 - Justin Madden - 101 Votes
8 - Matt Clape - 84 Votes
9 - Stephen Kernahan - 74 Votes
10 - Ang Christou - 73 Votes
10 - Andrew McKay - 73 Votes

Interesting to see that Carlton B&F count - what a ridiculous insanely loaded team that was - should have been undefeated. Seeing Clape that high surprised me, he is the only one on that list that I can’t instantly recall a memory of him playing.

they didn’t get anyone in the top 10 of the Brownlow either, probably reflects the quality they had across the ground. Difficult for anyone to stand out

 

[BigRex]

Interesting to see that Carlton B&F count - what a ridiculous insanely loaded team that was - should have been undefeated. Seeing Clape that high surprised me, he is the only one on that list that I can’t instantly recall a memory of him playing.

they didn’t get anyone in the top 10 of the Brownlow either, probably reflects the quality they had across the ground. Difficult for anyone to stand out

Carlton only lost 2 games in the entire 1995 and destroyed Nth in the Prelim and Geelong in the Grand Final.

For a team that was so dominate, it's surprising that they didn't have anyone finish in the top 5 in the Brownlow.

Kouta was Carlton's highest vote getter with 12 votes (he finished equal 8th in the Brownlow).

Carlton had the highest team votes (99) out of all the teams. Geelong was 2nd on 88.

12 - Koutoufides
10 - Bradley
9 - Clape
8 - S.Kernahan
8 - Spalding
7 - Hanna
7 - Christou
6 - Williams
5 - Camporeale
5 - Brown
4 - Dean
4 - Pearce
4 - McKay
3 - Mitchell
2 - Rice
2 - Sexton
2 - Madden
1 - Silvangi

Clape finished 4th in Carlton's goalscoring with 31 goals. Had hauls of 7, 5 and 5 during the season. Crossed from WCE in the 1994/95 off season.

Blues didn't dominate the goalkicking either. 7 players kicked more goals than Sticks in the AFL in 1995. Ablett 122 kicked and Lockett 110.

63 - S.Kernahan
52 - Pearce
34 - Spalding
31 - Clape
29 - Williams
22 - Koutoufides
21 - Rice

 

[BigRex]

Michael Tuck was runner-up in Hawthorn's B&F on 7 occasions, and in three of those seasons received no votes in the Brownlow, and only 4 votes on a fourth occasion.

None of that worries me, I respect the Brownlow for what it is, an umpires' award. It's their award, they can vote for whoever they want. I just question the importance we attach to it.

Michael Tuck Hawthorn Best and Fairest:

2nd Best & Fairest: 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1987, 1990
3rd Best & Fairest: 1978, 1981

Michael Tuck Brownlow Medal:

3rd - 1987
7th - 1978
8th - 1979
10th - 1984
12th - 1977
12th - 1981
12th - 1989

 

[BigRex]

I think it is overrated

Carey ( who i think has been the best player in the last 40-50 years ) someone posted his best finish is only 5th - staggering

Biggest joke has to be 1955 - Fred Goldsmith a full back for Sth Melb won it

Ive heard Hugh Mitchell of Essendon tell this story - round 8 1955 - Ess v Sth Melb at Windy Hill - Mitchell played full forward opposed to Goldsmith at FB

Ess won the game 13 goals to 7 goals . Mitchell playing FF - kicked 9 of the Dons 13 goals - yet Freddie Goldsmith got the 3 Brownlow votes - hah

This may be true but they didn't reveal the vote for each round until 1984. Before they simply read out votes 3, 2 or 1 but didn't assign them to rounds.

 

[HG Pennypacker]

Carlton only lost 2 games in the entire 1995 and destroyed Nth in the Prelim and Geelong in the Grand Final.

For a team that was so dominate, it's surprising that they didn't have anyone finish in the top 5 in the Brownlow.

Kouta was Carlton's highest vote getter with 12 votes (he finished equal 8th in the Brownlow).

Carlton had the highest team votes (99) out of all the teams. Geelong was 2nd on 88.

12 - Koutoufides
10 - Bradley
9 - Clape
8 - S.Kernahan
8 - Spalding
7 - Hanna
7 - Christou
6 - Williams
5 - Camporeale
5 - Brown
4 - Dean
4 - Pearce
4 - McKay
3 - Mitchell
2 - Rice
2 - Sexton
2 - Madden
1 - Silvangi

Clape finished 4th in Carlton's goalscoring with 31 goals. Had hauls of 7, 5 and 5 during the season. Crossed from WCE in the 1994/95 off season.

Blues didn't dominate the goalkicking either. 7 players kicked more goals than Sticks in the AFL in 1995. Ablett 122 kicked and Lockett 110.

63 - S.Kernahan
52 - Pearce
34 - Spalding
31 - Clape
29 - Williams
22 - Koutoufides
21 - Rice

Kouta finished 17th. There were lots of guys tied on 13 votes.

12 votes may have been the 8th most but there was 16 guys ahead of him

 

[Wallaby]

Carlton only lost 2 games in the entire 1995 and destroyed Nth in the Prelim and Geelong in the Grand Final.

For a team that was so dominate, it's surprising that they didn't have anyone finish in the top 5 in the Brownlow.

Kouta was Carlton's highest vote getter with 12 votes (he finished equal 8th in the Brownlow).

Carlton had the highest team votes (99) out of all the teams. Geelong was 2nd on 88.

12 - Koutoufides
10 - Bradley
9 - Clape
8 - S.Kernahan
8 - Spalding
7 - Hanna
7 - Christou
6 - Williams
5 - Camporeale
5 - Brown
4 - Dean
4 - Pearce
4 - McKay
3 - Mitchell
2 - Rice
2 - Sexton
2 - Madden
1 - Silvangi

Clape finished 4th in Carlton's goalscoring with 31 goals. Had hauls of 7, 5 and 5 during the season. Crossed from WCE in the 1994/95 off season.

Blues didn't dominate the goalkicking either. 7 players kicked more goals than Sticks in the AFL in 1995. Ablett 122 kicked and Lockett 110.

63 - S.Kernahan
52 - Pearce
34 - Spalding
31 - Clape
29 - Williams
22 - Koutoufides
21 - Rice

In 1973, Richmond finished 2nd in the H&A, with 17 wins (Carlton won 19). In the Brownlow, Richmond's leading vote-getter (Stewart) was 7th, and the only one who scored in double figures. Richmond finished in 7th place in total votes (Carlton 1st).

Richmond was the 3rd highest-scoring team. Richmond's leading goalkicker in the H&A was Ricky McLean with 32. (Mclean was dropped for the final series, as he wasn't in the best side). Every other side had a higher leading goal-kicker (except Melbourne who finished 11th, who's leading goalkicker also kicked 32).

Richmond won the flag. It's a team game. Sure, a star makes a difference - but so does having a full complement of better-than-average roleplayers, playing together as a team.

That 1995 Carlton side is the best I've ever seen.

 

[Damon_3388]

Good thread.

The fact that Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey and Ablett Snr never got close to winning one, tells you that the Brownlow is all very nice, but has never served its purpose.

Matthews' best finish was 3rd in 1973.
Carey managed 5th in 1993.
Ablett was the 'worst' poller of votes amongst this grouping, with an equal 4th in 1985 his best.

I feel like the voting format serves it's purpose, and is always going to get some slightly unusual results.

Not even Matthews, Carey, or Ablett Snr were BOG every single week.