Woosha

[WCETRUTH]

Melbourne won 6 flags in 9 seasons between mid 50's and mid 60's... Now THAT IS success

The reality is smug belief in ones own greatness is always the precursor to fail ...

We've won 1 flag in 19 seasons. We've been no threat for the last 6 seasons - that's almost 25% of our existence ...

We are a well supported, wealthy club that has been mediocre since Judd & Cousins left: our drafts have been pretty poor and we don't have a single genuine top 30 midfielder ...

We are what 12th?

What we did under Malthouse in the dim dark past when Nisbett was still alive and Woosha was a player is about as useful and relevant as most of your posts...

Right now we are underachievers with list issues miles from being a flag threat...

Only the truly dumb confuse the truth for negativity...

You are a Melbourne supporter arent you??.....you cant help but think its greener on the other side can you dude. Hawthorn has won one flag in 20+ yrs....wake up man....they are tough to win....but only the strong clubs find a way. Your a flog....and your posts are layered with bullshit.

 

[Spoon_Man]

All of your "Woosha will stay" or "Are you a Melbourne supporter" or "Your You're a flog" repetition is getting a bit old. You have nothing to add to the discussion, and get defensive when someone offers an opinion different to yours. Here's an idea, stay out of this thread unless you want to add something of actual relevance...

 

[Eagle87]

You are a Melbourne supporter arent you??.....you cant help but think its greener on the other side can you dude. Hawthorn has won one flag in 20+ yrs....wake up man....they are tough to win....but only the strong clubs find a way. Your a flog....and your posts are layered with bullshit.

A considered intellectually nuanced response. As always.

In case it had escaped your pea sized mind, it was you who brought Melbourne up as a laughing stock example in the post I responded to. I was simply pointing out they were once much more successful than we have ever been. And now they are crap. The (simple) point being that past achievements don't guarantee anything. We are a mediocre team, we have been for 6 seasons now. We run the risk of prolonged mediocrity with Woosh/Nisbett/Cransberg blowing smoke up each others arses while reality continues around them....

One hopes you are just a troll, the alternative being you actually believe what you post

 

[Pea Barrel]

You are a Melbourne supporter arent you??.....you cant help but think its greener on the other side can you dude. Hawthorn has won one flag in 20+ yrs....wake up man....they are tough to win....but only the strong clubs find a way. Your a flog....and your posts are layered with bullshit.

I am. Are you one of those anti-out-of-towners? I'm not even from Perth.

We all bleed blue and yellow, don't we? Why the hostility?

 

[WCETRUTH]

A considered intellectually nuanced response. As always.

In case it had escaped your pea sized mind, it was you who brought Melbourne up as a laughing stock example in the post I responded to. I was simply pointing out they were once much more successful than we have ever been. And now they are crap. The (simple) point being that past achievements don't guarantee anything. We are a mediocre team, we have been for 6 seasons now. We run the risk of prolonged mediocrity with Woosh/Nisbett/Cransberg blowing smoke up each others arses while reality continues around them....

One hopes you are just a troll, the alternative being you actually believe what you post

I know that supporters like you bag their team when their struggling and rave about them when they do well.....and thats just spineless!!

 

[WCETRUTH]

In 2010 the doomsayers said we were fisted...and would always be....then we got 4th in 2011....enough said. This year hasn't gone our way, but we will come out on top again...its just going to take more hard work.

 

[Eagle87]

I know that supporters like you bag their team when their struggling and rave about them when they do well.....and thats just spineless!!

You get nothing.

I simply have a capacity for rational thought AND I'm not a mindless fanboi.

If you can't bring some substance to the thread why don't you umm go forth and multiply ...

 

[Eagle87]

In 2010 the doomsayers said we were fisted...and would always be....then we got 4th in 2011....enough said. This year hasn't gone our way, but we will come out on top again...its just going to take more hard work.

What have we won, of any significance, since 2010?

We were a middling finals side in 2011 & 2012 that was no threat to do anything. Like Richmond or Port this year. We had a good draw in both years and we got stellar play from veterans - that ain't coming back.

We are a poor side again now like in 2010 but we had hope then that all our young mids might become elite, now we know better and there's no late career bursts from Kerr or Embley to help them.

Ebert, Stevens, Swift and Weedon didn't work out for us...

Arguably things are worse now than then ... but folks don't see it yet.

 

[ChampRevesby]

What have we won, of any significance, since 2010?

We were a middling finals side in 2011 & 2012 that was no threat to do anything. Like Richmond or Port this year. We had a good draw in both years and we got stellar play from veterans - that ain't coming back.

We are a poor side again now like in 2010 but we had hope then that all our young mids might become elite, now we know better and there's no late career bursts from Kerr or Embley to help them.

Ebert, Stevens, Swift and Weedon didn't work out for us...

Arguably things are worse now than then ... but folks don't see it yet.

I think the majority that frequent this board have made similar statements.
We are indeed in a bad way and it has nothing to do with injuries.I just can not see where this massive improvement is going to come from?
Our coaching staff is stagnant and in denial, our recruitment department is incompetent, our strength and conditioning department are boarding on negligent, our senior guys are way past it (as you said they spent all their petrol in the last 2 seasons), our young mids are good but I fear they will be just that. We seriously need to start doing something about this RIGHT NOW and I mean serious sweeping changes.

I need a hug.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You get nothing.

I simply have a capacity for rational thought AND I'm not a mindless fanboi.

If you can't bring some substance to the thread why don't you umm go forth and multiply ...

Not sure why you are bothering Eagle87, mindless fanboi would be an understatement and you just won't convince those types because they can't be convinced. Blind faith at it's best.

 

[Marlin01]

The reality is smug belief in ones own greatness is always the precursor to fail ...

Excellent point.

 

[WCETRUTH]

Not sure why you are bothering Eagle87, mindless fanboi would be an understatement and you just won't convince those types because they can't be convinced. Blind faith at it's best.

no...just someone who understands success....and the positive attitude that gets you there. Remember Leigh "FF" Matthews 2010 comments...that Woosh was a dreamer to say that the 2010 mids could achieve success...well....Matthews thought hed look like a star slagging an obvious target....and there is no more obvious target than a sporting team down the ladder at the bottom.....Matthews had to eat his own humble pie and appologise the next yr......and it would be a big humble pie lookin at his body state!!
As someone said earlier....wtf did you expect from our team on the weekend...seriously....most of our side was out...Polesmokas!!

 

[WCETRUTH]

I think the majority that frequent this board have made similar statements.
We are indeed in a bad way and it has nothing to do with injuries.I just can not see where this massive improvement is going to come from?
Our coaching staff is stagnant and in denial, our recruitment department is incompetent, our strength and conditioning department are boarding on negligent, our senior guys are way past it (as you said they spent all their petrol in the last 2 seasons), our young mids are good but I fear they will be just that. We seriously need to start doing something about this RIGHT NOW and I mean serious sweeping changes.

I need a hug.

YOUR KNOWHERE BUD!!


Look at the results since we have been in the afl;

WCE 3 FLAGS
BRISBANE 3 FLAGS
NTH MELBOURNE 2 FLAGS
ESSENDON 2 FLAGS
HAWKS 4 FLAGS
PIES 2 FLAGS
CROWS 2 FLAGS
GEELONG 3 FLAGS
SYDNEY 2 FLAGS
CARLTON 2 FLAGS

To say that WCE management doesnt know what they are doing is ludicrous....and history shows us all who the recent powerhouses of the comp have been. Look at the facts, without emotion. One must look at recent history to make judgements about our current situation and our ability to do something about it.

We are a great club, and one that will continue to make the calls necessary to keep succeeding!! No need to throw the baby out with the bath water!

 

[WCETRUTH]

Facts:::::should be tried!!
2012 Sydney Swans Hawthorn 14.7 (91) - 11.15 (81)
2011 Geelong Collingwood 18.11 (119) - 12.9 (81)
2010 Collingwood St Kilda 1. 9.14 (68) - 10.8 (68)
2. 16.12 (108) - 7.10 (52)
2009 Geelong St Kilda 12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)
2008 Hawthorn Geelong 18.7 (115) - 11.23 (89)
2007 Geelong Port Adelaide 24.19 (163) - 6.8 (44)
2006 West Coast Sydney 12.13 (85) - 12.12 (84)
2005 Sydney West Coast 8.10 (58) - 7.12 (54)
2004 Port Adelaide Brisbane 17.11 (113) - 10.13 (73)
2003 Brisbane Collingwood 20.14 (134) - 12.12 (84)
2002 Brisbane Collingwood 10.15 (75) - 9.12 (66)
2001 Brisbane Essendon 15.18 (108) - 12.10 (82)
2000 Essendon Melbourne 19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)
1999 North Melbourne Carlton 19.10 (124) - 12.17 (89)
1998 Adelaide North Melbourne 15.15 (105) - 8.22 (70)
1997 Adelaide St Kilda 19.11 (125) - 13.16 (94)
1996 North Melbourne Sydney 19.17 (131) - 13.10 (88)
1995 Carlton Geelong 21.15 (141) - 11.14 (80)
1994 West Coast Geelong 20.23 (143) - 8.15 (63)
1993 Essendon Carlton 20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)
1992 West Coast Geelong 16.17 (113) - 12.13 (85)
1991 Hawthorn West Coast 20.19 (139) - 13.8 (86)
1990 Collingwood Essendon 13.11 (89) - 5.11 (41)
1989 Hawthorn Geelong 21.18 (144) - 21.12 (138)
1988 Hawthorn Melbourne 22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56)
1987 Carlton Hawthorn 15.14 (104) - 9.17 (71)

 

[Spartan]

Not sure why you are bothering Eagle87, mindless fanboi would be an understatement and you just won't convince those types because they can't be convinced. Blind faith at it's best.

There is a difference to blind faith and believing we are Melbourne's twin brother.

We are in bad shape right now, but unlike those who think our list is shithouse and far from a flag I don't think we are that far off.

A grade forward line and rucks, B grade backline and a midfield with potential but needing a top end talent.

We haven't achieved anything in the last 6 years? If we define achieving anything as a premiership then yes, but you can then add another 14 teams to that list.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

There is a difference to blind faith and believing we are Melbourne's twin brother.

We are in bad shape right now, but unlike those who think our list is shithouse and far from a flag I don't think we are that far off.

A grade forward line and rucks, B grade backline and a midfield with potential but needing a top end talent.

We haven't achieved anything in the last 6 years? If we define achieving anything as a premiership then yes, but you can then add another 14 teams to that list.

Spartan interested in your comment on our midfield that it has potential??
Shuey, Masten, Selwood are all 5 year plus players now. they have been in the system a long time. No longer kids but men in their prime. I think Shuey can become an A grader.
Kerr, Priddis, Wellingham are all seasoned players. They are what they are and won't get better. Wellingham is all class and will certainly add to us if he can stay on the park. Kerr is probably just about finished and Priddis well enough has been said about him.

Interested in your views mate as I see little potential to that group unless it is added to significantly. Whats your thoughts mate?

 

[Goldfish]

YOUR KNOWHERE BUD!!


Look at the results since we have been in the afl;

WCE 3 FLAGS
BRISBANE 3 FLAGS
NTH MELBOURNE 2 FLAGS
ESSENDON 2 FLAGS
HAWKS 4 FLAGS
PIES 2 FLAGS
CROWS 2 FLAGS
GEELONG 3 FLAGS
SYDNEY 2 FLAGS
CARLTON 2 FLAGS

To say that WCE management doesnt know what they are doing is ludicrous....and history shows us all who the recent powerhouses of the comp have been. Look at the facts, without emotion. One must look at recent history to make judgements about our current situation and our ability to do something about it.

We are a great club, and one that will continue to make the calls necessary to keep succeeding!! No need to throw the baby out with the bath water!

I haven't weighed into this discussion as yet, however I think what people are trying to explain is if you slightly decrease your sample data, say from 1995 - 2012, it is far less complimentary than if you run the sample from 1987.

You could also argue that by the AFL giving us the concessions it did when we entered the competition, it had some influence on how good our list was in 92 and 94 periods. That, coupled with the fact that drafting has become far more difficult, ie. we can no longer pick up an unknown from Kalgoorlie like Kemp from deep in the draft, as all clubs are far more professional as to how they go about the drafting process.

The key in you summary above is 'recent' history. I don't consider the entire duration we have been in the AFL as 'recent'. 'Recent' to me would be more like a 10-15 year sample, over which period we have been above average, winning one flag, with arguably one of the best midfields the AFL has ever seen. We have also won a wooden spoon in this period, lost 2 champions of the club before they were due, and are a fair way off the powerhouse of the competition we once were in the early 90s.

 

[Eagle87]

There is a difference to blind faith and believing we are Melbourne's twin brother.

We are in bad shape right now, but unlike those who think our list is shithouse and far from a flag I don't think we are that far off.

A grade forward line and rucks, B grade backline and a midfield with potential but needing a top end talent.

We haven't achieved anything in the last 6 years? If we define achieving anything as a premiership then yes, but you can then add another 14 teams to that list.

What have we achieved?

The aim was to rebuild a class midfield via the draft. We whiffed far too often on Top 25 picks.

This strategy, per Woosh, was to have the side competing for a flag in 2 to 3 years (end of 2010) and when he got his extension he said he should be judged on that after the 3 years ...

We had a 2 year period where we were good against poor and middling sides and struggled big time against the best sides - particularly outside Perth.

This was despite getting stellar contributions in 1 or both of this years from Cox, Kerr, Embley, Glass, Nico - all of whom are almost done. We've also seen the best of A Selwood, Butler and likely Waters.

So we've failed to meet any if our aims and we are left with a middle of the road midfield; the impending departure of a number of veterans who are or have been elite and we have a hall arsed game plan and a poor tactical coach.

Things are bad.

Can they be turned around? Of course but not without first acknowledging that there are big issues to address.

We don't have an A grade forward line. We have 2 A grade forwards. We have a former A grader who might get back there and then we have some balance and speed issues.

Our back line has one quality KP tall. One quality kicking half back and one intriguing tall attacking player - then it has a lot of questions.

Our midfield is shallow, lacking elite talent and slow.

No one equated us to Melbournes twin brother. No one. In response to a clown using them to try and make a dim point, I noted that they too have been successful in the past. So past success guarantees nothing. And relying on it to or expecting it to be repeated is fraught.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Facts:::::should be tried!!

Not sure what listing a bunch of grand final results for the past 25+ years is supposed to prove.

If it's that we've played a few grand finals in the past and won three of them, then we already knew that. Move on.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

I haven't weighed into this discussion as yet, however I think what people are trying to explain is if you slightly decrease your sample data, say from 1995 - 2012, it is far less complimentary than if you run the sample from 1987.

You could also argue that by the AFL giving us the concessions it did when we entered the competition, it had some influence on how good our list was in 92 and 94 periods. That, coupled with the fact that drafting has become far more difficult, ie. we can no longer pick up an unknown from Kalgoorlie like Kemp from deep in the draft, as all clubs are far more professional as to how they go about the drafting process.

The key in you summary above is 'recent' history. I don't consider the entire duration we have been in the AFL as 'recent'. 'Recent' to me would be more like a 10-15 year sample, over which period we have been above average, winning one flag, with arguably one of the best midfields the AFL has ever seen. We have also won a wooden spoon in this period, lost 2 champions of the club before they were due, and are a fair way off the powerhouse of the competition we once were in the early 90s.

We also had a very good fixture in 2011 from memory due to finishing bottom in 2010 and we had a relatively small injury list compared to most other teams, yet we still couldnt make the GF. Only someone who is unwilling to be honest would say our recent history has not been good enough, and that we are severely lacking in midfield talent to win a premiership in the next 5 years unless something changes dramatically. Its not being disingenuous to your team to be honest that you need to improve.

 

[Goldfish]

We also had a very good fixture in 2011 from memory due to finishing bottom in 2010 and we had a relatively small injury list compared to most other teams, yet we still couldnt make the GF. Only someone who is unwilling to be honest would say our recent history has not been good enough, and that we are severely lacking in midfield talent to win a premiership in the next 5 years unless something changes dramatically. Its not being disingenuous to your team to be honest that you need to improve.

Think you mean willing (double negative), but completely agree.

 

[Spartan]

What have we achieved?

The aim was to rebuild a class midfield via the draft. We whiffed far too often on Top 25 picks.

This strategy, per Woosh, was to have the side competing for a flag in 2 to 3 years (end of 2010) and when he got his extension he said he should be judged on that after the 3 years ...

We had a 2 year period where we were good against poor and middling sides and struggled big time against the best sides - particularly outside Perth.

This was despite getting stellar contributions in 1 or both of this years from Cox, Kerr, Embley, Glass, Nico - all of whom are almost done. We've also seen the best of A Selwood, Butler and likely Waters.

So we've failed to meet any if our aims and we are left with a middle of the road midfield; the impending departure of a number of veterans who are or have been elite and we have a hall arsed game plan and a poor tactical coach.

Things are bad.

Can they be turned around? Of course but not without first acknowledging that there are big issues to address.

We don't have an A grade forward line. We have 2 A grade forwards. We have a former A grader who might get back there and then we have some balance and speed issues.

Our back line has one quality KP tall. One quality kicking half back and one intriguing tall attacking player - then it has a lot of questions.

Our midfield is shallow, lacking elite talent and slow.

No one equated us to Melbournes twin brother. No one. In response to a clown using them to try and make a dim point, I noted that they too have been successful in the past. So past success guarantees nothing. And relying on it to or expecting it to be repeated is fraught.

No one specifically said we are Melbourne's twin but that is the tone of some of the attitudes.

Can't disagree with too much of what you said.

However I believe Shuey and Gaff are A-grade talents in our midfield. Scooter also has potential as doe Masten. The problem is without Kerr and Priddis's limitations together with injuries they haven't come along as quickly as expected. I believe the talent is there though. However we need another top end mid (or two) to replace Kerr. Personally I think we need a player with ~100 games not a rookie to fill this need, but can't think of any standout options.

The core of our forward line is Kennedy, Darling, LeCras and a resting NN/Cox/Lycett.. looks pretty A grade to me.

Btw Melbourne was successful in a state competition with less teams and with no equalisation, hence making it easy for good teams to stay good for a period of time. Not really a real comparison.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Think you mean willing (double negative), but completely agree.

haha thanks.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

YOUR KNOWHERE BUD!!


Look at the results since we have been in the afl;

WCE 3 FLAGS
BRISBANE 3 FLAGS
NTH MELBOURNE 2 FLAGS
ESSENDON 2 FLAGS
HAWKS 4 FLAGS
PIES 2 FLAGS
CROWS 2 FLAGS
GEELONG 3 FLAGS
SYDNEY 2 FLAGS
CARLTON 2 FLAGS

To say that WCE management doesnt know what they are doing is ludicrous....and history shows us all who the recent powerhouses of the comp have been. Look at the facts, without emotion. One must look at recent history to make judgements about our current situation and our ability to do something about it.

We are a great club, and one that will continue to make the calls necessary to keep succeeding!! No need to throw the baby out with the bath water!

They know what they are doing but they aren't doing the right things.

We need sweeping changes. 25 years for anyone at a professional sporting organisation is a long time. We need fresh people in all aspects of our club that are willing to make the hard calls and stamp a new WCE footprint on this competition.

We need to be the club that opposition clubs are scared about our future rather than have our fans remind them of our successful past.

If you don't get the point WCETRUTH thats you.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

They know what they are doing but they aren't doing the right things.

We need sweeping changes. 25 years for anyone at a professional sporting organisation is a long time. We need fresh people in all aspects of our club that are willing to make the hard calls and stamp a new WCE footprint on this competition.

We need to be the club that opposition clubs are scared about our future rather than have our fans remind them of our successful past.

If you don't get the point WCETRUTH thats you.