WRFL Division 1 - 2013

[SlipperyWhenWet]

Its an interesting scenario, DP are not the first club to have supporters/past players form groups and pay money, many clubs survive on this money from their members.. All power to DP but in the end they are or have to be aware that once the momey dries those 14 players will go somewhere else. The broadbents, ayres, etc will all move on to add another footy jumper into their wardrobe.. And my understand from talking to a few blokes one being being Vice president that they will all be getting of the committee in year or so.. therefore just as the money runs out, so does the leadership.. But as a club this is the decision they have been empowered to make by their members.

Having family members involved in the juniors at Deer park, things are not pretty there with disgruntled parents wanting to know where their money is going.

I think a points system would work in this comp, unlike a salary cap, where you get statements like the club isnt paying the money,or the club didnt walk around preseason training with contracts and a box of cash handing out sign on fees it wont matter it will be the history of the player, where they have played, who they have played for and how many games they have under their belt. It's not hard to police as all players even the emergencies are submitted to the league via the web.. Points will be preallocated so new additonal duties are required. Very simple to maintain..

 

[L 7 Weeney]

Here's a quick rundown on some of the new players at Deer Park

Mark Bullen
Jackson Barling
Ryan Crawford
Kurt McGlynn
Sam Hunt
Shannon Broadbent
Chris Kelly
Steven White
Josh Jones
Jake De Sousa
Chris Stewart
Shylo Smith
Luke Buttigieg

All Ex Marby players, most of which played in multiple A grade Edfl flags. And with Heath Ayres ( back to back edfl a grade bnf winner ) and Joe Leverde ( edfl league bnf winner ) still to come back in to the side.
Deer Park WILL win the flag this year. FULL STOP !!!!

 

[Moody Blue]

I don't believe a salary cap in isloation will work. It has to be something all Metropolitan Leagues have to embrace and then enforce. This in itself is another issue and will no doubt cause problems.The AFL needs to start getting involved and seriously spending some of their time in these issues as they have a serious stake. On any Monday in the Herald Sun take the opportunity to have a look at some of the metropolitan soccer results. You will get an idea of what sort of competition Aussie rules is facing and it is only growing. Less numbers required to field a team, smaller ground and councils are finding it easier to accomodate these clubs and throw grants at them. A lot of these competitions have huge junior numbers and half of the fees that they charge i.e anywhere between $400-$800 is sent direct to Football Australia to fund the game.
Meanwhile clubs in the WRFL and other leagues cut each other's throats as they try to out do each other with match payments. Where will the League be in 5 years? Yes I keep hearing outer Western Clubs are forming and will be the future in new suburbs. In the meantime however they will inevitably surrender other areas. AFL survives using a Socialist system. Not perfect but it works. It is time all of the Leagues followed suit.

 

[SlipperyWhenWet]

Message from the committee of the North Footscray Football Club:-

The Committee of North Footscray Footscray Football Club wish to advise that as of this afternoon, by mutual agreement, John Barnes will no longer be the Senior coach.

At the beginning of the season the committee locked in set dates throughout the year where it would review the clubs entire operations from onfield through to ca...nteen management. One of the set agenda items involved the coaching staff.

The first of the review occurred after the completion of Round 3, whereby the committee addressed concerns with the senior coach regarding certain expectations not being met.

After a frank and open discussion, it was evident that the clubs expectations of the senior coach differed to that of what the senior coach perceived the role to be.

We wish John all the best both personally and professionally in his future endeavours.

An interim coaching arrangement is currently being arranged and the club will immediately begin the recruitment process of an appropriate, dedicated coach who wants to develop the clubs senior football section to the next level.

It needs to be said that The North Footscray Football club understands where it is at with its development, in particular the Senior football section and the club requires a full commitment from all involved to assist in achieving greater results for seasons 2013 and beyond

All decisions to date are focussed on building the club to be a more professional and successful organisation

The committee has already appointed a representative of the club who has a specific mandate of fielding an U/18 side in season 2014. This representative has already secured coaching staff and is beginning to seek recruits.

The committee has also secured the services of a designated fitness trainer to work in-conjunction with the new coach to best prepare our playing group.

We will continue our positive development off-field so as we can achieve success on-field.

Thank you to our Players, Members and sponsors for their ongoing support.

Regards

Ash Lewis and North Footscray Football Club Committee.

 

[WRFLwhisperer]

Meanwhile clubs in the WRFL and other leagues cut each other's throats as they try to out do each other with match payments. Where will the League be in 5 years? Yes I keep hearing outer Western Clubs are forming and will be the future in new suburbs.

The league are painting a bright picture but there's 22 senior teams in the WRFL and only 13 clubs have an Under 18 team. The Under 16A competition has 6 teams in it, and 3 of them don't have senior teams in the WRFL. So for starters you've got a massive issue there - where exactly will clubs be getting their players from in the future? The league need to do a lot more work on player retention and keeping juniors in the game.

 

[go_nodders]

I agree this is exactly what is happening. One can hardly blame DP for it, as they do nothing wrong. Salaries have risen dramatically over the last 5 years for all clubs and it seems clear that finance is the main driver of inequality between clubs.

It seems to me that the League and Presidents will need to make a decision:

Is the competition about the provision of entertainment by creating an ever-stronger competition, where past AFL/VFL/Other stars entertain the crowd? Perhaps. But it will be at the cost of having an uneven competition, clubs getting into financial trouble (boom/bust), and local players getting pushed out for imports. It accepts that in a meeting 2 year ago, only one Div2 team confirmed they had the intention to get promoted to Div1. The rest were simply not willing to make the step, because they knew that it would kill them financially. It also then accepts an ineffective allocation of community sponsorship dollars, which flow to mercenaries without loyalty, doing nothing to strengthen clubs, their premises, or Junior participation and programs. The money simply does not get invested in the clubs.

So should the competition be about maximising community participation of local Juniors? Perhaps. Funds and resources will increasingly go to school programs, participation programs of those cultural groups who normally dont play footy, subsidising Junior fees, merchandise etc. Increased participation would strengthen Football in the West. But then what happens when all promising 20 yo Juniors leave to other comps to play for big dollars? The Senior football product would suffer.

I think the truth is you need both. On the one hand, you cannot allow unlimited spending (hey, even the AFL does not do this!) and we need to better support and build our Juniors. But you need to reward those clubs that work hard on raising those funds too, and you need to allow clubs to recruit some marquee players with skill and sizzle, so that there is excitement going to the game on Saturday.

In my opinion, take 3 years to trial a point system. One that would, in effect, cap expenditure at $200k (or any other level - it's not the point). Despite all the rhetoric, other leagues have been working with a points system for years. And with success.

At least have a go. Have a vision and try something to really address the issue.

Or else, accept that player expenditure will remain the best predictor of ranking, that mercenaries drain the community clubs of most of their funds and push out local players, that the competition will remain uneven, and that clubs will continue to under-invest in driving Junior participation to make a stronger WRFL.

Many may agree with me. Many won't. But I think it is time we start having a serious conversation about viable solutions to the WRFL's issues.

I am from the Ammo's but love getting to different leagues throughout the year.
Excellent post mate. I brought this up on this board a while ago - is it in the best interest of the league to make the top teams stronger or the bottom teams stronger? No-one really cared but I think the Deer Park situation has shown action needs to be taken.
This is the 2nd comp (SFL) where the BF boards are saying the top division should be an 8 team comp? Really? This would be a diaster for both comps who (and no disrepect) are striving for credibility in the metro community.
To have a sustainable and competitive league, it must be driven from the bottom up not the other way around. Metro football is not/or should not be an arms race. If it is, the weak simply won't survive.
You are never going to get a completely even competition, but I think its incumbant on the people in charge to put controls in place to mimimise the gap. I think every team should have a chance to compete without putting their very existence in jeopardy.
When any team can be competitive with all other team, thats when you've got a good strong comp.

 

[WRFLwhisperer]

This is the 2nd comp (SFL) where the BF boards are saying the top division should be an 8 team comp? Really? This would be a diaster for both comps who (and no disrepect) are striving for credibility in the metro community.

An 8 team competition would be more even but from a fixturing point of view 10 teams & 18 rounds works perfectly. I wouldn't want to change that.

It's optimistic but you hope the teams who come up from Div 2 can be competitive. Glenorden seem to have got their act together at senior level and Manor Lakes could grow to be a Div 1 club sooner rather than later. But the gap between Div 1 and Div 2 is massive.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

An 8 team competition would be more even but from a fixturing point of view 10 teams & 18 rounds works perfectly. I wouldn't want to change that.

It's optimistic but you hope the teams who come up from Div 2 can be competitive. Glenorden seem to have got their act together at senior level and Manor Lakes could grow to be a Div 1 club sooner rather than later. But the gap between Div 1 and Div 2 is massive.

Div 2 you can spend 30K and be competitive and play finals. In Div 1 if you spend 30k you are looking at 18 weeks of 20 goal plus floggings.

 

[BlueJet]

Here's a quick rundown on some of the new players at Deer Park

Mark Bullen
Jackson Barling
Ryan Crawford
Kurt McGlynn
Sam Hunt
Shannon Broadbent
Chris Kelly
Steven White
Josh Jones
Jake De Sousa
Chris Stewart
Shylo Smith
Luke Buttigieg

All Ex Marby players, most of which played in multiple A grade Edfl flags. And with Heath Ayres ( back to back edfl a grade bnf winner ) and Joe Leverde ( edfl league bnf winner ) still to come back in to the side.
Deer Park WILL win the flag this year. FULL STOP !!!!

Getting a bit ahead of yourself there imo, going back 3 years they'd probably be red hot favourites but you've got to remember that those players for all there past success also made up a fair percentage of the side that got belted in the past two finals campaigns while playing for Marby. Sure Ayres, Barling etc are guns but a few of those listed have barely gotten a kick over recent years. It's also a bit disrespectful to the Altonas and Spotswoods (amongst others) to write them off so early in the season.
As for Deer Parks spending, I couldn't care less if they spend it up, hopefully they have enough common sense to plan for the future though, as unfortunately we've seen a lot of clubs over many leagues either fold or struggle to stay afloat after throwing the money around.
Good luck to all sides this weekeend.

 

[choofa]

I agree this is exactly what is happening. One can hardly blame DP for it, as they do nothing wrong. Salaries have risen dramatically over the last 5 years for all clubs and it seems clear that finance is the main driver of inequality between clubs.

It seems to me that the League and Presidents will need to make a decision:

Is the competition about the provision of entertainment by creating an ever-stronger competition, where past AFL/VFL/Other stars entertain the crowd? Perhaps. But it will be at the cost of having an uneven competition, clubs getting into financial trouble (boom/bust), and local players getting pushed out for imports. It accepts that in a meeting 2 year ago, only one Div2 team confirmed they had the intention to get promoted to Div1. The rest were simply not willing to make the step, because they knew that it would kill them financially. It also then accepts an ineffective allocation of community sponsorship dollars, which flow to mercenaries without loyalty, doing nothing to strengthen clubs, their premises, or Junior participation and programs. The money simply does not get invested in the clubs.

So should the competition be about maximising community participation of local Juniors? Perhaps. Funds and resources will increasingly go to school programs, participation programs of those cultural groups who normally dont play footy, subsidising Junior fees, merchandise etc. Increased participation would strengthen Football in the West. But then what happens when all promising 20 yo Juniors leave to other comps to play for big dollars? The Senior football product would suffer.

I think the truth is you need both. On the one hand, you cannot allow unlimited spending (hey, even the AFL does not do this!) and we need to better support and build our Juniors. But you need to reward those clubs that work hard on raising those funds too, and you need to allow clubs to recruit some marquee players with skill and sizzle, so that there is excitement going to the game on Saturday.

In my opinion, take 3 years to trial a point system. One that would, in effect, cap expenditure at $200k (or any other level - it's not the point). Despite all the rhetoric, other leagues have been working with a points system for years. And with success.

At least have a go. Have a vision and try something to really address the issue.

Or else, accept that player expenditure will remain the best predictor of ranking, that mercenaries drain the community clubs of most of their funds and push out local players, that the competition will remain uneven, and that clubs will continue to under-invest in driving Junior participation to make a stronger WRFL.

Many may agree with me. Many won't. But I think it is time we start having a serious conversation about viable solutions to the WRFL's issues.

exactly what you and your bunch of mercanaries did to albanvale!!!

 

[Moody Blue]

Tell me again how is a 50 goal defeat good for a club? How will this develop their club and attract recruits? Would it not make sense to look at the Ross Lyon rubgy union style of play? Play everyone back, flood the opposition forward line and then push forward going sideways like they do in rugby. It would certainly be very ugly, however it would stem the bleeding.

What is happening at Port Colts? Has their lack of juniors and players coming through finally caught up with them? They seem to have lost quite a few players during the preseason.

 

[Checkside35]

Tell me again how is a 50 goal defeat good for a club? How will this develop their club and attract recruits? Would it not make sense to look at the Ross Lyon rubgy union style of play? Play everyone back, flood the opposition forward line and then push forward going sideways like they do in rugby. It would certainly be very ugly, however it would stem the bleeding.

What is happening at Port Colts? Has their lack of juniors and players coming through finally caught up with them? They seem to have lost quite a few players during the preseason.

There would be some clubs in both divisions with a fist full of dollars waiting to pick at the carcass if this keeps up with North.

 

[cougarman]

There would be some clubs in both divisions with a fist full of dollars waiting to pick at the carcass if this keeps up with North.

Who would you go after from Nth?
Do they have anyone who would get a game for the top 5 clubs?

No disrespect to Nth I think the fact they are willing to fight out the year is gutsy, but fact is their current list wouldn't qualify for div 2 finals. If there are div 2 clubs working their hearts out to get a crack at div 1 why not make the switch and possibly save a struggling club?

Judging by div 2 results Glenorden look as good as Deer Park did in 2011. Would it not be worth at least asking them if they're interested. If Glenorden knock it back does this mean they do not wish to be promoted if they are premiers? If so where does this leave Nth Footscray?

There is no quick fix here but we can't have div 1 clubs conceding 50 goals in a game while there are div 2 clubs going undefeated. Glenorden, Parkside & Wyndhamvale would defeat Nth Footscray so to me it makes sense to at least ask these clubs if they would be willing to have a crack.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

Who would you go after from Nth?
Do they have anyone who would get a game for the top 5 clubs?

No disrespect to Nth I think the fact they are willing to fight out the year is gutsy, but fact is their current list wouldn't qualify for div 2 finals. If there are div 2 clubs working their hearts out to get a crack at div 1 why not make the switch and possibly save a struggling club?

Judging by div 2 results Glenorden look as good as Deer Park did in 2011. Would it not be worth at least asking them if they're interested. If Glenorden knock it back does this mean they do not wish to be promoted if they are premiers? If so where does this leave Nth Footscray?

There is no quick fix here but we can't have div 1 clubs conceding 50 goals in a game while there are div 2 clubs going undefeated. Glenorden, Parkside & Wyndhamvale would defeat Nth Footscray so to me it makes sense to at least ask these clubs if they would be willing to have a crack.

Great idea. If WRFL management are serious they should have already asked the question but reality is that 50 goal thrashings add weight to the one and only objective they have had since Bob has been in charge...... Division 3.

Also doubt that any team in Div 2 would be wiling to scrifice a possible flag just to get flogged by 5 - 15 goals every week.

Arnott and Jackson would get a game in every team in Div 1.

 

[Checkside35]

Who would you go after from Nth?
Do they have anyone who would get a game for the top 5 clubs?

No disrespect to Nth I think the fact they are willing to fight out the year is gutsy, but fact is their current list wouldn't qualify for div 2 finals. If there are div 2 clubs working their hearts out to get a crack at div 1 why not make the switch and possibly save a struggling club?

Judging by div 2 results Glenorden look as good as Deer Park did in 2011. Would it not be worth at least asking them if they're interested. If Glenorden knock it back does this mean they do not wish to be promoted if they are premiers? If so where does this leave Nth Footscray?

There is no quick fix here but we can't have div 1 clubs conceding 50 goals in a game while there are div 2 clubs going undefeated. Glenorden, Parkside & Wyndhamvale would defeat Nth Footscray so to me it makes sense to at least ask these clubs if they would be willing to have a crack.

Glen Orden haven't committed to going up even if they win the flag, so asking them the question is a waste of time. Parks and WV are not ready. Div2 clubs with some cash will look at players from North. There is a considerable gap between Div 1and 2 so Nths best will fit in nicely and be good players in a Div2 side.

 

[cougarman]

Great idea. If WRFL management are serious they should have already asked the question but reality is that 50 goal thrashings add weight to the one and only objective they have had since Bob has been in charge...... Division 3.

Also doubt that any team in Div 2 would be wiling to scrifice a possible flag just to get flogged by 5 - 15 goals every week.

Arnott and Jackson would get a game in every team in Div 1.

Disagree Mick. At best they would be on the fringe. Have a look at who is playing in the reserves of the top 5 clubs and compare them to these 2. I dare say if they were good enough they would be there.

 

[cougarman]

Glen Orden haven't committed to going up even if they win the flag, so asking them the question is a waste of time. Parks and WV are not ready. Div2 clubs with some cash will look at players from North. There is a considerable gap between Div 1and 2 so Nths best will fit in nicely and be good players in a Div2 side.

You are missing the point Choofa. Parkside & Wyndhamvale not ready? They are in better shape than the Devils surely. Parkside surely want to get back to the top flight they have one of the strongest histories and this is their first stint in div 2 in 100 yrs. If Glenorden don't want to be promoted don't recruit Mooney, Kingsley & Yze among many other and develop a div 2 club which can't be beat. That is a whole separate issue as you should not be given a choice! Win div 2 premiership = promotion to div 1. No exceptions!

I am not kicking Nth while they are down here i'm just concerned how they will come out of the other side of this (Nth Sunshine still rooted) and would hate to see a club go under when it could have been avoided.

 

[Checkside35]

You are missing the point Choofa. Parkside & Wyndhamvale not ready? They are in better shape than the Devils surely. Parkside surely want to get back to the top flight they have one of the strongest histories and this is their first stint in div 2 in 100 yrs. If Glenorden don't want to be promoted don't recruit Mooney, Kingsley & Yze among many other and develop a div 2 club which can't be beat. That is a whole separate issue as you should not be given a choice! Win div 2 premiership = promotion to div 1. No exceptions!

I am not kicking Nth while they are down here i'm just concerned how they will come out of the other side of this (Nth Sunshine still rooted) and would hate to see a club go under when it could have been avoided.

Can't blame GO for recruiting guns for a flag. They've seen Altona say no to promotion, get a couple of flags, go to Div 1 and then get a flag a few years later. While the WRFL are buying the excuses, clubs will keep making them.
At the moment, WV won't go anywhere near cutting it. Parkside are slightly better but will cop a hiding too. Can't ask the question now. Drop North Footscray and re jig both fixtures.

 

[GoesBangFrom50]

You are missing the point Choofa. Parkside & Wyndhamvale not ready? They are in better shape than the Devils surely. Parkside surely want to get back to the top flight they have one of the strongest histories and this is their first stint in div 2 in 100 yrs. If Glenorden don't want to be promoted don't recruit Mooney, Kingsley & Yze among many other and develop a div 2 club which can't be beat. That is a whole separate issue as you should not be given a choice! Win div 2 premiership = promotion to div 1. No exceptions!

I am not kicking Nth while they are down here i'm just concerned how they will come out of the other side of this (Nth Sunshine still rooted) and would hate to see a club go under when it could have been avoided.

Maybe this will bring the issue to a point where a decision will have to be made. There are a number of teams in DIV 2 that have no intention of going up. In the past teams have stayed down so that they could "build a competitive team or build up some cash" but now teams dont want to go up because they are scared their club will die.
Look at Sunny Heights. Although it is unlikely that we will win it this season it is not 100% out of the realms of possibility. If we somehow won it and were told we had to go up I would vote (and push hard) to shut the doors on the senior club and become a junior only club or at worst offer zero player payments for the season and go up and lose every game by m ore than 50 goals if we could get 2 teams up.

 

[bangfrom50]

Did I hear right, my old mate Clarkey has taken over the reins at the Mighty Colts after the coach got to ar*e at half time of Saturdays game?

 

[Moody Blue]

Did I hear right, my old mate Clarkey has taken over the reins at the Mighty Colts after the coach got to ar*e at half time of Saturdays game?

Not exactly the best time to advise one that their services are no longer required. The fact Clarke was shown the door after everything he did for the club was an absolute disgrace and the Colts got what they deserved. If you rumour is true then he has a lot of hard work ahead of him, but if anyone can do it its Clarkey. Good luck to him.

 

[Hidden_wonder]

Divvy 1 will be 8 teams next year anyway. 2 down none up!

 

[W begbee]

Divvy 1 will be 8 teams next year anyway. 2 down none up!

When has this been said? They'd want to let every club know asap, you can't just spring something like that on a club who finishes 9th and thinks they've done enough to stay up

 

[choofa]

Should common sense have prevailed?
Michael Lindsay, a player of our club (Laverton), brought up though the Juniors and Seniors, was 3 seasons ago recruited by the then coach of the Albanvale FC, David Connell. ML wasnt keen to move to Yarraville in 2012 and played a partial season of football in the Riddell League. 2013 arrives and once again DC is keen to acquire his services to which ML signs a contract. On realising the commitment that would be required of a 1st division player ML decided not to pursue his career there. On getting itchy feet ML decides he just wants to have a kick with his mates back at Laverton.
Wind the Clock back just over 12 months and 2 Laverton players who had been courted by DC, decide that their time at Laverton had expired and made the move to Yarraville (without monetary or product compensation), with the clubs blessing, and go on to become Yarraville Senior Premiership players.
Not only that, due to Yarravilles lack of accredited trainers in the 2012 finals, a Laverton trainer was approached to give them a helping hand., which he happily did.
Now, for Yarraville to demand 8 new Sherrins for the release of ML from his contract to be cleared back to his original club, i personally think, it is an absolute disgrace and common sense should of prevailed.
Am i right or wrong?

 

[table tennis]

Should common sense have prevailed?
Michael Lindsay, a player of our club (Laverton), brought up though the Juniors and Seniors, was 3 seasons ago recruited by the then coach of the Albanvale FC, David Connell. ML wasnt keen to move to Yarraville in 2012 and played a partial season of football in the Riddell League. 2013 arrives and once again DC is keen to acquire his services to which ML signs a contract. On realising the commitment that would be required of a 1st division player ML decided not to pursue his career there. On getting itchy feet ML decides he just wants to have a kick with his mates back at Laverton.
Wind the Clock back just over 12 months and 2 Laverton players who had been courted by DC, decide that their time at Laverton had expired and made the move to Yarraville (without monetary or product compensation), with the clubs blessing, and go on to become Yarraville Senior Premiership players.
Not only that, due to Yarravilles lack of accredited trainers in the 2012 finals, a Laverton trainer was approached to give them a helping hand., which he happily did.
Now, for Yarraville to demand 8 new Sherrins for the release of ML from his contract to be cleared back to his original club, i personally think, it is an absolute disgrace and common sense should of prevailed.
Am i right or wrong?

Do they state what kind of sherrins? what if you provided them with 8 foam sherrin footy's from Rebel sport @ $8.00 ea................