Your starting 22 in 2012

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im sorry.. but how the HELL does N.Brown force tarrant out of the fullback position when his been allmost AA there the last few years????? oh add in brown wont have match fitness and hasnt played football in a very very long time
 
Peirce from port would also fix the leg speed issue.. his been linked with us. Didak+Mcarthy/Goldsack+our 2nd round for Peirce and pick 6. We then have peirce who could easily play better than didak in 2012 and will play for longer. This then leaves us with picks 6 and 25 to snag Hamish Macintosh/O'Meara/???.

It's a risk though as Didak couldreturn to his 2010 form and be in our best 3 players, but i reckon his got maybe 2-3 good season left in him as age will decrease his ability a lot more than it would other players imo, as we have seen without his speed he looks ordinary.

Lets not forget pick 6 is actually like pick 10 with treloar shieels hombsch ect being taken as 17 year olds and its not a strong draft (pick 6 will be worth WAY more next year)

Obviously port wouldn't be jumping at this idea, but was mainly if Peirce really wanted out and nominated Collingwood..
 
Tarrant is the first picked in the backline for mine, just about the only man in the land who can stop franklin. I would play all three, or horses for courses, dropping brown when versing smaller forward line teams.
Imagine in the grandfinal had brown been there, manning hawkins, he wouldnt have been moved. Reid could have played on the resting ruck/pods and tarrant could have destroyed and shut down stevie j.

Tarrant can play on just about any forward, from milne to franklin.

I expect the three to managed well, each getting a rest when required.
 

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im sorry.. but how the HELL does N.Brown force tarrant out of the fullback position when his been allmost AA there the last few years????? oh add in brown wont have match fitness and hasnt played football in a very very long time

I'm not saying Brown is a better player than Taz, quite the contrary, but Taz won't be around in 3 years like Brown will and we need to develop him as a key defender. So moving Taz to a different role will enable this to happen. What interests me is if they do this, what role will they give Taz.

If you're not a rap for Brown, fair enough, but we need to find out at some stage if he can cut it long term, so who changes roles to let this happen?

As I said, it will be interesting to see what Bucks does.

P.S. Match fitness for Round 1? That would have him in the same boat as everyone else in the team.
 
Tarrant is the first picked in the backline for mine, just about the only man in the land who can stop franklin. I would play all three, or horses for courses, dropping brown when versing smaller forward line teams.
Imagine in the grandfinal had brown been there, manning hawkins, he wouldnt have been moved. Reid could have played on the resting ruck/pods and tarrant could have destroyed and shut down stevie j.

Tarrant can play on just about any forward, from milne to franklin.

I expect the three to managed well, each getting a rest when required.

This is a viable option, and the really interesting thing is that I think it forces Maxwell out of the back half and effectively out of the team. That's why Brown's return next year intrigues me the most.
 
Noideetallsaid it all for me - the current best 22 did not win a premiership and therefore new blood is needed. Someone like Seedsman and Ugle or some new player into the club, preferably with pace and flair, needs to come into the team. The forward line that several posters have suggested looks good but also lacks pace unless Didak is back to his old self next year.

HF: Beams* - Cloke - Fasolo
F: Krakour - Dawes - Macaffer


Correct me if I am wrong, but none of the bolded players, including Fasolo, are speedy types. Blair is not fast and gets caught doing too much too often. Ugle or someone like him needs to show something next year. Beams is not going to carve out a career as a forward as several said during the finals series.

Josh Thomas will hopefully take a giant step up into the seniors as support for Ball, giving the team another inside mid.

Maxwell possibly will not make the best 22 as player alone. He bombed the ball forward more than anyone else I can recall from the GF. O'Brien may need to reinvent himself on a wing because looked vulnerable in defence at times this year. Perhaps he needs to channel his spirituality into something more football orientated.

Toovey needs to be retained for his pace alone,perhaps as a tagger or back in his customary role. He probably needs to get a few more disposals and influence a game more directly.

People suggest teams with Tarrant playing forward. Tarrant is now a defender and though he can be swung forward is far more useful down back.

We need a fresh looking team with a revised game plan. Anything less and we will have a repeat of 2011. The year seemed just a tad boring after last year and though we had some good wins, too many players had ordinary seasons.
 
as i stated in knights thread as well, by starting 22 is:

B: Nick Maxwell, Chris Tarrant, Alan Toovey
HB: Leon Davis, Ben Reid, Harry O’Brien
CEN: Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Heath Shaw
HF: Alex Fasolo/Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Dayne Beams
F: Andrew Krakouer, Chris Dawes, Lachy Keefe
FOLL: Darren Jolly, Luke Ball, Dane Swan

BENCH: Steele Sidebottom, Nathan Brown, Brent Macaffer, Alan Didak

Next best (in no particular order): Cam Wood, Luke Rounds, Ben Sinclair, Ben Johnson, Tyson Goldsack

Sure, macaffer starts ahead of Keefe, but thats a good balance of youth and experience. Its imperative that we get good game time into both Brown and Keefe early in the season
 
my 22 for the 2012 GF -

toovey tarrant maxwell
davis reid obrien
shaw swan thomas
sidebottom cloke macaffer
wood dawes krakouer
jolly pendlebury ball
int: goldsack beams blair clarke

on the fringe - nbrown (who will obviously play a fair bit as they manage tarrant), mccarthy didak sinclair young fasolo dick (if retained on the list), buckley, johnson, keefe

a few things -

1. it is time for the selectors to come to grips with reality. as sacreligious as it sounds, didak is no longer best 22. his reputation cannot sustain him any longer after his end to 2011. unless he absolutely burns in pre season he is no longer in our best side

2. wood is ready. the bulk of his games this year were very good. he even showed a bit when he went forward. he can take a grab and kick a goal. he replaces Lbrown in the 2nd ruck/forward role and should be given continuous senior footy to show us his wares. i am pretty confident he will go past jolly by the end of 2012 as our no. 1 big man

3. depending on who we play there may be room for tarrant nbrown and reid all in the same side. thought should also be given to playing reid forward occasionally to make him the ideal swingman should he be required up forward. as the 3rd mobile marking forward he would be very hard to man up

4. goldsack should play every week. how this bloke got dropped after the qualifying final is still a mystery to me. he pantsed embley and continually performs well in big games for the club only to be the 1st squeezed out at selection when the heat goes on

5. macaffer's importance to our forward structuree is just so underrated. he was vital in the 2010 campaign presenting as that mid sized option, and his attack on the ball on a couple of occasions late in the drawn GF summed him up nicely - hard at it, clean with his hands, can play

6. do johnson and leon have another good year in them? they were both great in 2011 but theirs are aging bodies. they will have to be carefully managed in 2012. hopefully marty clarke comes back committed to the cause, because he will be the recruit of the year if he does. just rewind to 2007 and recall how good he was in that finals series after playing the game for less than a year. more mature in mind and body he could still be anything

they are not major changes we have to make. despite what happened last saturday, the pies are still the best team and best list in the competition by some margin. we just needed a little bit more luck with injuries/suspensions in the 2nd half of the year. look at the 22 that took the field last week - thomas shaw dawes toovey didak jolly maxwell wellingham johnson reid all had very interrupted preparations either throughout the season or very late in the piece in reid's case. as did beams and macaffer who didn't make it to the line on GF day. and leon also missed a couple late in the year. that is half of the GF 22 who had interrupted preparations

that lack of continuity of footy caught up with us in the end. swap the preparation with the one that geel had and we beat them just as easily last week, probably even more easily. they had the ideal lead up, and could pick and choose when they rested their stars in the 2nd half fo the year. ours missed footy because they were forced to

all being even, we are the team to beat clearly heading into 2012 and we shouldn't be overreacting to the circumstances which resulted in what occurred last saturday
 
Just wondering whether ben reid could be a player to trial as a forward. Great hands. Nate Brown CHB, Taz FB, Cloke CHF, Reid FF.

after the season hes had at CHB youd think we'd be reluctant to play him elsewhere. hes so vital to that backline when hes at his best
 

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B - Toovey - Brown - Tarrant
HB - Davis - Reid - Shaw
C - Thomas - Swan - Wellingham
HF - O'Brien - Cloke - Macaffer
F - Didak - Dawes - Krakouer
R - Jolly - Pendlebury - Ball
INT - Sidebottom - Beams - Maxwell
SUB - Fasolo

EMG - Goldsack Johnson Blair Wood

With no trading happening this is my side.

Goldy, Johno, Blair & Wood all have legitimate claiims on positions in the side and if they perform or their are injuries can easily push their way in.

I see Tarrant & O'Brien as guys that can be interchangeable forward & back depending on the opposition & match ups. Nat Brown will make this possible - he can free Tarrant up from playing on the gorillas.

I think we need Cloke & Dawes isolated with a crumber or two. Having good lead up forwards who must be respected with good opponents will do that for us. We missed this option this year. Macaffer, O'Brien & Tarrant will do the job & clear the area by leading up to & beyond 50. If the opposition want to leave guys back on Cloke these guys will hurt them.

My main concern with my team is no backup ruck! I really don't think playing Wood & Jolly in the same team is the best idea, however there isn't any other great options. One for the recruiters perhaps.
 
Just wondering whether ben reid could be a player to trial as a forward. Great hands. Nate Brown CHB, Taz FB, Cloke CHF, Reid FF.
He absolutely could. It's where he was drafted to play. People think his kicking is poor but it's actually good.

In saying that I doubt the club would play him forward. He's shown he's important to the side down back and plays great football there. He can read play and chop off opposition attacks with ease, but when we have guys like Cloke and Dawes in the side he's much more useful as a defender.
 
Keeping the backline settled with the possible exception of moving Shaw into the midfield rotations seems the safest bet as they were great this year as a unit, even if some were below their best individually, with something like:

Maxwell Tarrant Toovey
O'Brien Reid Davis


[Brown, Keefe, Rounds, Young, B2?].

Keeping the same basic midfield structure, with a question to be resolved on the ruck seems reasonable, but with the following tweaks:
Shaw to help outside run, and perhaps provide more consistency than number 21; perhaps Josh Thomas to: 1) help Ball and develop as his long-term replacement and 2) lessen the need for numbers 10, 13 and 36 to work so hard throughout the year and allow them to be more outside more often; Seedsman to pass several others during the season to help make us faster outside. So:

Shaw Pendlebury D. Thomas
Jolly Swan Ball


[From: J. Thomas, Beams, Wellers, Seedsman, Johnson].

Forward line ideally has a fit Macaffer offering both a reliable, extra mark-on-the-lead target and telling tackler; someone offering more speed to pressure [think Dicky is gone, so Blair or rotating fast mids like 21 or 13, someone traded for?]. Sidey, Krak and Didey to rotate through midfield [as I'm hoping Bucks will lessen the weekly load on our prime mids and quicken the development of others, while keeping everyone involved]. So, assuming Didak can bounce back:

Didak Cloke Sidebottom
Macaffer Dawes Krakouer


[Blair, someone faster (Ugle?), traded in player?]

As for the ruck, I think Jolly will bounce back to an extent, and Wood is an adequate replacement, but don't see them playing together, so:
Dawes? Very risky with our lack of depth with KPF's; Ceglar? Won't be ready that fast, I think, but maybe if there's no other option by then; Keefe? See Ceglar comments but don't really see a ruckman hidden inside him myself; cheap outside options in the mold of L. Brown rather than Wood? Yes, please, if they have an appetite for the contest and are not a liability up forward.
By the way, does anyone see them making the interchange 4 + 1 next year? That would shift the debate back to having 2 genine rucks per team quickly enough.
Failing that change, we either live with throwing Ceglar or Keefe in at the deep end [please let's not do that to Witts - he could be anything if we give him time]; or we get in an underrated backup from the AFL, VFL, SANFL, WAFL or another planet [hey, don't underestimate Derek Hine!].

What do you reckon?

PS Can I take this opportunity to show great appreciation for the fantastic in=depth work of Knightmare, Quicky, Snoopdog and others. I spend a lot of time living abroad [currently in China] and it's fantastic to be part of this forum.

PPS Can anyone send me a current link for the Lulie Street site? Thanks!
 
Backs
Shaw Tarrant Brown
O'Brien Reid Maxwell

Midfield
Jolly Pendlebury Thomas
Swan Sidebottom Ball

Forwards
Clarke Dawes Didak
Witts Cloke Krakouer

Int
Davis Wellingham Beams (Toovey/Macaffer)


Emer
Blair Fasolo Johnson
 
1. it is time for the selectors to come to grips with reality. as sacreligious as it sounds, didak is no longer best 22. his reputation cannot sustain him any longer after his end to 2011. unless he absolutely burns in pre season he is no longer in our best side

can't agree with this. didak 2011 should be compared to Leon's 2010. Just never got going due to the pec surgery, followed by the calf.

didak's 2012 will be massive provided he can get to arizona. some players just need a pre season.

But we're talking about a player not yet 30, with 2 AA seasons under his belt, and our leading goalkicker, and AA in a premiership year 12 months ago. Talk of him being finished is completely premature. Bucks will give him every chance to rediscover the Dids we know and love. I'm backing him in to be as much of a new recruit to us next year as Maj was this year. :thumbsu:
 
B: Tyson Goldsack, Chris Tarrant, Alan Toovey
HB: Leon Davis, Ben Reid, Harry O’Brien
CEN: Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Heath Shaw
HF: Alex Fasolo, Travis Cloke, Dayne Beams
F: Andrew Krakouer, Chris Dawes, Steele Sidebottom
FOLL: Darren Jolly, Luke Ball, Dane Swan

BENCH: Jarryd Blair, Nathan Brown, Wellingham, Alan Didak

Emerg: Brent Macaffer, Nick Maxwell, Johnson

I also got a feeling that Maxwell won't be captain and Pendles will take over. I think he struggled this year, and with the weight of captaincy lifted off his back he may be a better player. Pendles will thrive on the captaincy... and Bucks loves him!
 
B: Tyson Goldsack, Nathan Brown, Leon Davis
HB: Chris Tarrant, Ben Reid, Harry O’Brien
CEN: Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Heath Shaw
HF: Brent Macaffer, Travis Cloke, Dayne Beams
F: Andrew Krakouer, Chris Dawes, Steele Sidebottom
FOLL: Darren Jolly, Luke Ball, Dane Swan

BENCH: Martin Clarke, Alex Fasolo, Sharrod Wellingham, Alan Didak

Emerg: Cam Wood, Nick Maxwell, Ben Johnson

Based on the assumption of no Toovey at the 'Pies........
 
The Starting 22 I want (especially the forward line):

B: N.Maxwell N.Brown H.O'Brien
HB: H.Shaw B.Reid D.Thomas
C: S.Sidebottom S.Wellingham D.Beams
HF: A.Didak T.Cloke A.Krakouer
F: L.Davis C.Dawes A.Fasolo
R: C.Wood D.Swan S.Pendlebury
INT: B.Macaffer J.Blair L.Keefe
SUB: T.Goldsack
EMERG: M.Clarke B.Johnson A.Toovey

OUT: D.Jolly C.Tarrant L.Ball (All rested for 16 weeks)
 
The nathan brown factor will be interesting...

Buddy franklin said that Taz is the best defender he has played on this year. Nathan Brown has confess to struggling big time on him.

I think It will be Taz playing full back and Nate playing pocket on a dangerous medium/small. Nathan was quite fast back in the day when he got drafted... if he's still like that after knee issues i think he's be up to it... it will be interesting... If he's not playing Round 1 I think he'll struggle to break in to the backline... Just a hunch.

People go back and watch the 2010 prelim against geelong. Caff was brilliant. Really useful. this year when he finally got brought in he was played in the back line and it just didn't work..


Everyone is suggesting Goldy for backline, but he played a great run with role on embley against eagles in the qualifyer this year. I think he's more suites to the wing...
 
Hoping for

B: Maxwell - Brown - Toovey
HB: O'Brien - Tarrant - Reid
C: Thomas - Ball - Shaw
HF: Didak - Cloke - Sidebottom
F: Mcaffer - Dawes - Krakour
Fol: Jolly Pendlebury Swan
Int from Beams, Clarke, Wellingham, Fasolo, Witts or Ceglar rotating every couple of weeks

Next in line: Goldsack, Johnson, Young

The Witts or Ceglar is hoping more than anything
 

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Your starting 22 in 2012

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