Zac Smith vs Rhys Stanley

[Whit3y]

We are challenging for a premiership this year. Players won't be gifted games for development. The only way those two or any others get 20 games is by earning them - this HAVE to play is the opposite of what they will do unless we have injuries or incumbent form lapses.

one would argue the fact that we were challenging for a flag last year and players were gifted games

 

[Jon Douglas]

To be honest I haven't seen a helluva lot of weaving through traffic from Lang so far; to me he has often looked a bit tentative in traffic.
Blicavs has his faults, but I've always liked his ability to hold onto the ball and find a target by hand despite having a player or two on his hammer.
I do think Lang can improve in this area though, and once he gets the ball in space he is a far better user of the pill than Blicavs.

Agree. This an area we just don't really know about. Blitz could be a decent full time mid (and occasional ruckman for us) - but long term not sure this is where he will end up. Lang has been ok and yes is a nice kick and that is a very good thing. He is quick enough without break away speed. Seems to me he is still getting used to the speed of the AFL game. Not quite there yet but does some good things - just not consistently. Lang will more likely be a mid for us in a few years time I think than Blitz.

Personally I would be also training him up over the next 2 seasons as a CHB. Tall and strong enough - can run all day and keep the pressure on his opponent - and best of all his made job is just spoil whoever he is on. I think this will suit him - and he will learn like Lonergan did when to not to punch and mark instead.

I am hoping we will get a decent mid in the next draft - and Lang does make progress, even if playing mainly as a FP. Then Blitz (and hopefully Guthrie) being required in the middle - they can both play back. Both these players would also be capable of being moved to the middle if we needed a change up.

 

[Ricketz]

one would argue the fact that we were challenging for a flag last year and players were gifted games

You would have to argue from the inner circle - I would argue the guys who got gigs got them because they met targets required by the coaching staff and opponents on the day. I can't think of anyone last year who got granted 20 games for development, can you?

 

[Whit3y]

You would have to argue from the inner circle - I would argue the guys who got gigs got them because they met targets required by the coaching staff and opponents on the day. I can't think of anyone last year who got granted 20 games for development, can you?

how many games did merdok play?, the coaching staff must have low targets for him

 

[dazbroncos]

We are having a discussion on ruckman with the idea we have one to many but are banned from even talking about dropping one of those ruckman. Apparently the thought of Blicavs being dropped is just too hard for some to comprehend.

Banned.. really? How exactly?

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

I think it's about form at the time.
2 most in form of Blitz, Stanley & Smith play.
Best game I saw us play last year was when Smith was dropped before the start of the game and we had a Stanley/Blitz combo.
Funny how bringing in an actual mid for 1 of 3 ruckman made us play better. We were also short a tall defender too. Who would've thought.

 

[Partridge]

You would have to argue from the inner circle - I would argue the guys who got gigs got them because they met targets required by the coaching staff and opponents on the day. I can't think of anyone last year who got granted 20 games for development, can you?

Maybe not 20, but there's no way Cockatoo or Kolodjashnij deserved every game last year.

 

[Jon Douglas]

If I give an honest opinion I dont think any 3 have earned an automatic spot on the team. Their form is each too inconsistent to say with certainty who will be the better combination. Form should dictate which of the 3 play. I think Smith and Stanley have more talent as rucks given their actual rucking abilities but inconsistency prevents me from saying they are definately the two that we should go with each week. Hopefully that view changes as the year progresses.

Fair enough. I think the same way. Smith was a good get and cost us little. We needed a first ruckman - a big body but hopefully fairly mobile. But they had to stop the opposition ruckman from dominating us in that position. There are some decent ruckman and ruck combos around. So we cannot afford to be too far of the pace if we want to win big games. Smith started like a house on fire and slowly became a fair ruckman for us. I do not think anyone would be calling for his head just yet ! Started late in football like Blitz - so he may still have some upside. Coming off injuries - maybe that slowed his progress ?

It is possible to make claim that Smith could improve 10-15 % this year and be in the top 10 of ruckman in the league (bottom end of the list however). Then again he may not. My guess is 50/50. So I agree he has not cemented his spot - except we do not have any other first ruckman coming thru. So we all better start hoping Smith does play 10 % better as he will be there if uninjured I would guess.

Stanley is more a follower than a first ruckman but he does quite well against opposition second ruckman - normally some closer to Stanley's height and bulk. He plays ok, starts to look good, has a day out and then either gets injured or his form tails off. He just has to get more consistent. Has the talent and physical attributes to be a very hard match up but he too, like Blitz, fail too often to use their running ability to find space or a mismatch. So yes the jury is out BUT he is our best second ruck option, so he stays in. We need as much fire power in the midfield as possible IMO. And if Smith and Stanley can be competitive against the better ruck combos, we will be in quite reasonable shape in the middle. He could, HE SHOULD, improve by 10 % on last year's efforts - but again I am 50/50 on this happening.

Blitz will play midfield as we need a big body in there and who do we have who will replace him ? Not Lang, not Cocky (yet) maybe GHS. But he seems to have fallen off the oval - so Blitz stays until we recruit better mids (we need a big year from Wells at the end of 2017 and just hope his class of 2016 has some decent hits).

 

[DanA]

Blitz will play midfield as we need a big body in there and who do we have who will replace him ? Not Lang, not Cocky (yet) maybe GHS. But he seems to have fallen off the oval - so Blitz stays until we recruit better mids (we need a big year from Wells at the end of 2017 and just hope his class of 2016 has some decent hits).

Dangerfield: 189cm
Menegola: 189cm
C.Guthrie: 187cm
S.Selwood: 186cm
J. Selwood: 183cm

Why do we need a big body in the midfield? By AFL standards they're all pretty big maybe with the exception of Joel who punches above his weight anyway. In the scenario of Blicavs being a 2nd ruck he's likely playing 40% ruck, 60% midfield so bringing in Thurlow and shift Guthrie to a full time midfield position is probably enough to cover his midfield absence when ruck duties are call upon. Plus we should get more games out of Menegola and Scooter that will cover most of the midfield absence from Bartel and Caddy. Lang and Cockatoo picking up the scraps.

 

[thegerman]

Just adding here, thought in the match simulation yesterday, Smith and Stanley were direct opponents. Thought Stanley had the better of Smith in centre bounce conditions; seemed to really jump into Smith.

Smith had some nice marks around the ground though. And I thought Stanley got away in the second half running forward of the ball as he had two over the back shots on goal.

So I guess as the game went on, Stanley used his athleticism more.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

My personal preference would be Smith as number 1 ruck, Stanley as number 2 ruck and Blicavs elsewhere as a utility or dropped to vfl. As mentioned earlier in the thread though, none of them really cemented an automatic best 22 selection, so a lot of it will (or should, at least) come down to form and opposition.

I really just hope they are not all picked in the 22 each week, unless it's warranted.

 

[catempire]

And I thought Stanley got away in the second half running forward of the ball as he had two over the back shots on goal.

So I guess as the game went on, Stanley used his athleticism more.

Would love to see more of that. It's an underutilised weapon. Wonder what his endurance is like as it seems the only possible explanation as to why he doesn't hurt his opponents more with his athleticism.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Just adding here, thought in the match simulation yesterday, Smith and Stanley were direct opponents. Thought Stanley had the better of Smith in centre bounce conditions; seemed to really jump into Smith.

Smith had some nice marks around the ground though. And I thought Stanley got away in the second half running forward of the ball as he had two over the back shots on goal.

So I guess as the game went on, Stanley used his athleticism more.

interesting; cheers thegerman thanks for the observations

 

[dazbroncos]

That over the back goal Stanley got from he Kersten tap really showed his speed. Need more of that. Add that to marking and he could be such a weapon.


Go Catters

 

[Jon Douglas]

Dangerfield: 189cm
Menegola: 189cm
C.Guthrie: 187cm
S.Selwood: 186cm
J. Selwood: 183cm

Why do we need a big body in the midfield? By AFL standards they're all pretty big maybe with the exception of Joel who punches above his weight anyway. In the scenario of Blicavs being a 2nd ruck he's likely playing 40% ruck, 60% midfield so bringing in Thurlow and shift Guthrie to a full time midfield position is probably enough to cover his midfield absence when ruck duties are call upon. Plus we should get more games out of Menegola and Scooter that will cover most of the midfield absence from Bartel and Caddy. Lang and Cockatoo picking up the scraps.

I accept that but Blitz is just another level to these guys when I say a 'big body' He is 198 cms and 100 kgs !! Now that is a huge midfielder by anyone's standard. Danger is 189 cms and 92 kgs and he is huge !

Blitz really should be at bounces when Danger is down forward or on the bench.

I am not sure how Blitz as a full time mid and little ruck work will turn out. But I suppose I am a bit effected by his relatively poor season last year. Hopefully it was just 4th year blues.

 

[Jon Douglas]

Dangerfield: 189cm
Menegola: 189cm
C.Guthrie: 187cm
S.Selwood: 186cm
J. Selwood: 183cm

Why do we need a big body in the midfield? By AFL standards they're all pretty big maybe with the exception of Joel who punches above his weight anyway. In the scenario of Blicavs being a 2nd ruck he's likely playing 40% ruck, 60% midfield so bringing in Thurlow and shift Guthrie to a full time midfield position is probably enough to cover his midfield absence when ruck duties are call upon. Plus we should get more games out of Menegola and Scooter that will cover most of the midfield absence from Bartel and Caddy. Lang and Cockatoo picking up the scraps.

Of course you asked do we need a bigger midfield ? Well maybe not - what we want is a more effective midfield. With the manic way players are now getting to contests and contesting hard (just think Bulldogs 2016) I think a big body in the midfield (as long as you are not too slow) would be a good thing, everything else being even. Bigger bodies clashing with smaller bodies does take its toll. The Brisbane Lions midfield beat up on a lot teams and won 3 Premierships.

Dangerfield breaks tackles as he has so much momentum and strength. I think Blitz maybe able to, on a far smaller scale, do this too. He should be able to out mark his midfield opponent and he should be able to get his arms freer more often and get the ball out of packs to our advantage. He has some natural advantages because of his size and mass. Has he the talent and hand speed to do this as a mid ? I think we will find out in the next season or two.

 

[Willo_]

Would love to see more of that. It's an underutilised weapon. Wonder what his endurance is like as it seems the only possible explanation as to why he doesn't hurt his opponents more with his athleticism.

It can't be that bad. That game against GWS (I think.. maybe the Dogs) last year where he marked everything near him he seemed to do most of his damage 2nd half/last quarter

 

[cynical]

I accept that but Blitz is just another level to these guys when I say a 'big body' He is 198 cms and 100 kgs !! Now that is a huge midfielder by anyone's standard. Danger is 189 cms and 92 kgs and he is huge !

Blitz really should be at bounces when Danger is down forward or on the bench.

I am not sure how Blitz as a full time mid and little ruck work will turn out. But I suppose I am a bit effected by his relatively poor season last year. Hopefully it was just 4th year blues.

We dont really need big inside mids though as we have Menegola and S Selwood. Ideally Blicavs would be that big contested ball winning mid or someone who can shut down other big midfielders, unfortunately he just isn't consistent enough.

Inside mids aren't our problem anymore it's delivery into the forwardline and that is why someone like Lang is thrown up as a replacement.

 

[Ricketz]

how many games did merdok play?, the coaching staff must have low targets for him

I cant say, it wasn't 20, but surely it wasn't for development at this stage in his cycle. I imagine they hoped he would provide transition speed. So they gave him a chance and he didn't take it. Not sure what else to expect them to do.

 

[Jon Douglas]

We dont really need big inside mids though as we have Menegola and S Selwood. Ideally Blicavs would be that big contested ball winning mid or someone who can shut down other big midfielders, unfortunately he just isn't consistent enough.

Inside mids aren't our problem anymore it's delivery into the forwardline and that is why someone like Lang is thrown up as a replacement.

In a way or cannot have too many inside mids as long as most of them can also run with the ball. Danger is best example currently going around. Selwood is another inside specialist with some run attached to his game - and I think Guthrie will be quite good in this regard as well. Motlop, Duncan and maybe Cocky will be the main outside runners. Menegola I have not seen enough of but seems to be quite good inside but I have not seen him as a run with ball player, the same goes for Scooter, and to a lesser extent Blitz.

What we really need is another mid who gets plenty of the ball and clearances - to compliment Selwood and Danger. Big or small (just preferably a bigger player than smaller). I think for this year the most likely candidate is Guthrie, and Menegola second in the queue. We just need one of these two to go to another level and our midfield will be quite good - and possibly good enough to threaten for a Premiership if we can also get the forward line to click.

 

[dangerwood]

I think if only one were to play id go Stanley. I actually think he is at his best as the sole ruckman, cause of injuries and what not he hasnt had an uniterupted run at being.

 

[thegerman]

Would love to see more of that. It's an underutilised weapon. Wonder what his endurance is like as it seems the only possible explanation as to why he doesn't hurt his opponents more with his athleticism.

I guess it was all to see during that Port Adelaide game. Totally dominant, streaming forward when her needed to.

If he gets forward of the ball, which he should, he's hard to stop

 

[Whit3y]

I cant say, it wasn't 20, but surely it wasn't for development at this stage in his cycle. I imagine they hoped he would provide transition speed. So they gave him a chance and he didn't take it. Not sure what else to expect them to do.

he did have a rickety year didnt he

 

[MotleyLemon]

Stanley for me, not even close.

Smith gets in the way, interrupting handball chains and the like more than just about any ruckman I've seen.

 

[CatRiot]

I think Smith over Stanley as the primary ruck option, without doubt.

I think Stanley is a better 2nd ruck and forward option than Blicavs, however, Blicavs is more versatile to play as a midfielder. Blicavs can play as a 2nd ruck.

If Taylor can turn into a bona fide key forward and kick many goals, then I'd be inclined to drop Stanley, and keep Blicavs.

If we are not getting the output from Taylor as a key forward, then we keep Stanley in the side perhaps at the expense of Blicavs.

I think we should be drop one of Stanley or Blicavs, we need more mid-sized agility, pace and some overlapping fast runners.